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Why Do Conservatives Deny Global Warming?

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    #16
    don't get me wrong

    Originally posted by Lindox
    Nobody actually thinks global warming is COMPLETELY reversible. That is conservative spin. What we do know is there are activities that we as humans engage in that ADDS to the problem. Noone knows exactly how much additional burdens we do put upon the natural order of things until we see five legged frogs etc.

    Teddy Roosevelt a dedicate hunter and fisherman was one of the greatest advocates of nature. What happened to republicans like him?

    There are scientists like the one Dr. Wise dined with that spend their entire lives WITH nature. Traveling the world. They aren't in a lab. They are in NATURE.
    They live hard lives sometimes yet continue on. Why don't the conseratives listen to what they have learned first hand.

    Very few world citizen's know nature as these dedicated scientist do. Not even a hunter that never misses a season. So why turn them off when we need their first hand knowledge more now than ever? I don't get it.
    Personally, I would like to see the U.S. become energy independant and get off petroleum products all together. I am in favor of bio-diesel, hydrogen, electric(non-coal burning), wind, etc. Unfortunately, with our political leadership(or lack of) it has become an issue of politicizing the globlal warming debate and will ultimately become a situation where our economy will take a hit due to political mismanagement. Instead of dictating to companies regarding emmissions, I think the government needs to increase tax breaks for those willing to comply voluntarily, and change the status quo. We need to increase investment in bio-fuels, solar and wind technologies, etc. not punish companies with antiquated production facilities. I saw where BP is bragging about investing 500 million dollars to date on researching bio-fuels when for one, this is a miniscule investment, and two, there is virtually zero difference between vehicles that run either on ethanol or bio-diesel from current production other than some simple change to rubber hoses, or a redundant fuel heating source to accomodate these different fuels. I think we can be much more carbon neutral and need to be but I think penalizing the developing world is a mistake by mandating changes without providing alternatives that will work for them to develop their own economies without us having to babysit them.

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      #17
      Lindox

      Originally posted by Lindox
      It's more than just the fish being gone.
      In some time much will be gone, some say quite a few species are whipped off the earth each week, but the focus is not right, take the Canada “cruel” seal hunt thread for example, zillions of seal, still this has got more focus than the around less than 3,000 tigers soon to be whipped out in India, not a peep about that, the 1 billions seals though, ohh the seals. Peoples has to understand more, and like the wolfs in Yellowstone, it is human controlled, that’s how it is, all is human controlled on a large scale, we just have to become better, but to focus on a few thousand seals out of a bunch compared like to no focus at all as for the tigers and the trade of their bones to China via Nepal for whatever reason is actually outrageous, the ivory from elephants in Africa too, after the hunt in the sixties the herds started to increase and one could see tens of them together quite often, now this is also seldom due to pouching for ivory used in China mainly. Take the whale hunt done by some countries like mine done by the West and Japan for example, which most “environmental concerned” city folks is outrages about, the West do sincere research thus blue whales and other endangered spices are not hunted on anymore albeit the bad practice in times before. Now one only hunt whales there are plenty of to keep the balance (like Yellowstone) and due to it is responsible, still those locko environmentalists’ focuses on this instead on the real problem as for endangered species. Understand that the ones that can?

      Soon we will all be gone if we don’t start to act to see the real problems, stupid wars take the focus away, so to the hyped energy focus some politicians puts forward these days, not to say we shouldn’t find better energy sources, but to me it seems populist politician forget about the rest when dealing with this issue... I remember flying over the US and Canada, from books when the immigrants came there was just open plain fields, now most everything looks like squares/blocks in a city, the same here in Europe, and the rest of the world is squaring and following swift, how to deal with that might be the question?
      Last edited by Leif; 27 Nov 2007, 5:12 PM.

      Comment


        #18
        Leif,
        I agree about the tigers plight. AND there are many organizations working for them..but the world media doesn't give them the time of the day.

        The seals. We will have to just agree to disagree on the methods used disguised as conservation. The whales. Take a few and take the older more close to the end of their lives. Of course they are smarter but also should be getting slower. When we go taking what we want instead of NEED things get destroyed.

        When you take a younger mother whale you also endanger her offspring. Not just the ones still suckling..but the older ones still going to school. When you take the oldest also you may run the risk of taking the matriach of the pods. BUT by the time the younger females are bred they at least have a BA in survival.

        Positive media would do wonders for the tigers and the elephants.
        Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

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          #19
          gp,
          Your post makes exceptional sense to me.
          I don't think there really is a country upcoming or not that relishes filthy air or water. I imagine many Chinese citizens were deeply upset about the extinction of the Yahtzee River otter.

          We do need to address the environement as a world not as seperate countries. And none of us really has the alternatives to this filth. United we WOULD find them.

          There will be growing pains..but they will be dwarfed by the benefits of growing. Not only will India and Siberia grieve for the last tiger so will humanity.
          Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

          Comment


            #20
            Who knows - maybe we are creating MBAs terrorist whales.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Leif
              Who knows - maybe we are creating MBAs terrorist whales.
              If so the humans will SPIN the story so ruthlessly that it will end up being the humans that were being wronged. Humans will be totally innocent as usual.
              Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Lindox
                If so the humans will SPIN the story so ruthlessly that it will end up being the humans that were being wronged. Humans will be totally innocent as usual.
                Humans are not innocents per say, but we need to eat other creatures and plants to live. And that’s not spinning. How many weeks can you go without such food that has not been killed or cut? And, what is that food you are eating?

                I tried to post new science about bioreactors could make perfectly good beef from stem cells maybe soon to Juke a time ago, he just brushed it of like nothing, then, accept the battle between man and nature for food.
                Last edited by Leif; 27 Nov 2007, 6:48 PM.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Leif
                  Humans are not innocents per say, but we need to eat other creatures and plants to live. And that’s not spinning. How many weeks can you go without such food that has not been killed or cut? And, what is that food you are eating?

                  I tried to post new science about bioreactors could make perfectly good beef from stem cells maybe soon to Juke a time ago, he just brushed it of like nothing, then, accept the battle between man and nature for food.
                  I eat other animals Leif. And plantlife also.
                  I am NOT innocent. Would never claim to be.
                  I do know that the food we humans..well in the richer countries..waste would feed the hungry. Three times over. And when a person gets too greedy they will ultimately end up needy.
                  Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

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                    #24
                    I didn’t address needy, said not a peep about that, I was just discussing the balance as for new admin some places on wild life/food. But eating is guilty now? No wonder so many has eating disorders these days. The bogus what to eat not to eat balance also has to be levelled out I think.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Leif
                      I didn’t address needy, said not a peep about that, I was just discussing the balance as for new admin some places on wild life/food. But eating is guilty now? No wonder so many has eating disorders these days. The bogus what to eat not to eat balance also has to be levelled out I think.
                      I said not innocent of eating animal flesh. You asked me what I eat. Well it's not plastic. I have lived longer than you and still have found no NEED to eat whale meat. Or any endangered species. If I lived in Sri Lanka that might change. Eat whale if you MUST. Eat the baby seals if you MUST. But please don't get greedy about it.

                      BTW if Alaskan King crab or Australian lobsters become endangered I will STOP eating them. Even though I would be very disappointed. EVEN if the marine animals continue to eat them.
                      Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        You might have been living longer than me, so far, but we are not there yet, maybe real meat will clock me in above you on that mark pole lol. Btw, the Australian lobster you refer to is not lobster, it might be metanephrops australiensis or langoustines, silly langusters that go up on the beaches to die just because of some algae in the oceans, se how smart they are? We could have eaten them instead. I have a recipe if you would like? And good that you are not eating plastic all the time, but what makes plastic in fact might be a problem saver, to make food from I mean.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          As far as I can see, the basic rule that makes life on earth sustainable is that the building blocks of organic matter get recycled. Some of them get recycled fairly quickly and some, like the ones in fossil fuels and carboniferous rocks, get recycled on a time scale encompassing many millions of years. There are many other cycles that act to stabilise conditions on earth and over the last few billion years life has evolved to thrive within the narrow range of conditions that these stabilising cycles have created.
                          Humans have broken this basic recycling rule in many ways and interfered with other cycles such as the water cycle. We are seeing the consequences of this in several ways, one of which is global warming.
                          Science has identified the problem and solutions have been identified to try and rectify the situation and stop us destroying our life support system.
                          The solutions mean that we must stop letting politics take precedence over sense, hence one basic question remains:

                          "Is there intelligent life on earth?"

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Leif
                            You might have been living longer than me, so far, but we are not there yet, maybe real meat will clock me in above you on that mark pole lol. Btw, the Australian lobster you refer to is not lobster, it might be metanephrops australiensis or langoustines, silly langusters that go up on the beaches to die just because of some algae in the oceans, se how smart they are? We could have eaten them instead. I have a recipe if you would like? And good that you are not eating plastic all the time, but what makes plastic in fact might be a problem saver, to make food from I mean.
                            If you have time I would appreciate your recipe. Maybe put it in the food forum. It's gonna have to be really delicious..afterall my favorite food is boullabaise. Oh boy just typing it makes my mouth water.
                            Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Lindox
                              It's more than just the fish being gone. Dr. Wise will describe it in scientific terms..but think about it.
                              Nature is a finely woven web. We have learned when even one strand of that web is destroyed the hole it leaves is much larger than that one strand.

                              What about the marine life that depends on the fish in question? Do we know exactly everything each ocean inhabitant contributes to their environement? Even waste matter is important in the oceans and rivers.

                              One good recent example of us not knowing what we are causing is being proven by the re-introduction of the wolf into Yellowstone Park.
                              The years they were missing in action ecosytems became uninhabitable for many other species including birds.
                              Many plant quit growing. Water was not being conserved. Now with the wolves back. Beavers are building dams. Missing fauna is regrowing. Birds that had given up on the area are now returning. The ecosystem is becoming healthy. Nothing else was done but the return of the wolf. Makes you wonder doesn't it.
                              Thanks for the response, Lindox. I definitely agree that one so-called little change to our ecosystem can produce major negatives changes. The idea of the fish disappearing in two decades - Good Gawds, that is beyond huge!

                              On a slightly different note, Debbie and I have been increasingly disturbed by the increasing trend of every new business around here wanting it's own brand-new building. Heaven forbid they should take over and rehab any of the too many empty commercial buildings around here. Some have been sitting empty for at least the 5+ years we've lived in this town alone, and Im sure it's happening plenty of other places. No, they'd rather tear down more woods to build their own nice, shiny new business and destroy more natural habitat.
                              Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
                              - Albert Einstein

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Kendell
                                Thanks for the response, Lindox. I definitely agree that one so-called little change to our ecosystem can produce major negatives changes. The idea of the fish disappearing in two decades - Good Gawds, that is beyond huge!

                                On a slightly different note, Debbie and I have been increasingly disturbed by the increasing trend of every new business around here wanting it's own brand-new building. Heaven forbid they should take over and rehab any of the too many empty commercial buildings around here. Some have been sitting empty for at least the 5+ years we've lived in this town alone, and Im sure it's happening plenty of other places. No, they'd rather tear down more woods to build their own nice, shiny new business and destroy more natural habitat.
                                This tear down rebuild is BIG in my area.
                                I do realize the need when the buildings are not up to code as far as earthquake and insulation factors go.

                                If they move into a building that isn't eco friendly they are contributing to the problem. BUT many of the buildings that are being left to rot ARE eco friendly.
                                That is where the ego of the nation comes into play.

                                It's almost as expensive to upgrade a building as it is to rebuild. Becoming eco friendly is NOT an easy feat..but doable. If we ALL contribute to it. In the end though money talks and the Earth suffers.
                                Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

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