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**adi chicago** · 25 Oct 2007, 7:21 PM

sad..........
http://comment.independent.co.uk/com...cle3075642.ece

**Mike C** · 25 Oct 2007, 7:36 PM

Everybody makes mistakes, but this borders more on a Mel Gibson episode...you remember how he thrashed the Jews when he was all stupid drunk and he lost control. Problem is with this guy, he wasn´t drunk, so I dare assume that he believes what he said and it just slipped. Perhaps he forgot to take his Geritol.

**Juke_spin** · 26 Oct 2007, 3:57 AM

Originally posted by Mike C

Everybody makes mistakes, but this borders more on a Mel Gibson episode...you remember how he thrashed the Jews when he was all stupid drunk and he lost control. Problem is with this guy, he wasn´t drunk, so I dare assume that he believes what he said and it just slipped. Perhaps he forgot to take his Geritol.

Word; you can hold such a belief and even have what seems valid facts to back them up but to say so in public is a PC blunder of huge, and apparently disasterous, consequences.

**Foolish Old** · 26 Oct 2007, 8:33 AM

Dumped him like a bad habit so as not to revisit the sins of the past.

Lot of food for thought regarding to what extent genes determine our capabilities and behaviors. Why are some people so afraid of this line of scientific inquiry?

Maybe because science so often outpaces ethics. What do we do if science concludes that they can reliably predict which babies will become serial killers? My parents would probably have been offered the choice to terminate me in the womb had the genetic counseling of today been available at that time. My guess is that the world would have one less fool. Maybe no great loss from the world's perspective, but I like to think that I give as much as I get.

Man as god based on "irrefutable evidence" is a shaky proposition at best. Even if the only use is to place a label on the babies who have "a proclivity to criminality" or those who "hold little intellectual promise", these are not benign decisions. Man has proven that he will employ any tool once placed in the workshop. The products produced display a wide range of outcomes when viewed from a distance.

Having said this, it may be surprising that I wholeheartedly support this research and the conversations concerning what can be concluded from the findings. I just pray that those who decide public policy won't use this tool as a blunt instrument to achieve misguided goals.

**Wise Young** · 26 Oct 2007, 9:14 AM

It is sad that Jim Watson has to depart from his illustrious career in such an ignominious end. His and Crick's discovery that DNA is the substance of genes was important and rightly recognized by the Nobel Committee as one of the great scientific discoveries of all time. At age 85, he probably should have retired a decade ago. His remarks are particularly egregious because of his stature and the fact that he is scientifically wrong. The evidence that we all descended from Africans is overwhelming. The evidence that people with highly pigmented skin are as smart as people with lightly pigmented skin is likewise very convincing.

Wise.

**IanTPoulter** · 26 Oct 2007, 9:31 AM

Originally posted by Foolish Old

Having said this, it may be surprising that I wholeheartedly support this research and the conversations concerning what can be concluded from the findings. I just pray that those who decide public policy won't use this tool as a blunt instrument to achieve misguided goals.

so you support his statements that those of african descent are less intelligent than other ethnic groups due to genetics?

**darrel** · 26 Oct 2007, 9:45 AM

racism is so ignorent, but what do I know, I just get to know ppl by there personallity and actions not by race/creed/beliefs there has been to many wars fought over this crap and I feel that man has come to far to keep falling back on stupid shit like this.

**Foolish Old** · 26 Oct 2007, 9:51 AM

Originally posted by Wise Young

It is sad that Jim Watson has to depart from his illustrious career in such an ignominious end. His and Crick's discovery that DNA is the substance of genes was important and rightly recognized by the Nobel Committee as one of the great scientific discoveries of all time. At age 85, he probably should have retired a decade ago. His remarks are particularly egregious because of his stature and the fact that he is scientifically wrong. The evidence that we all descended from Africans is overwhelming. The evidence that people with highly pigmented skin are as smart as people with lightly pigmented skin is likewise very convincing.

Wise.

No fool like an old fool. That's what happens when one stays too long at the Fair.

Published reports indicate that he doesn't clearly recall saying such things.

I'm told my entire state land mass has an African origin, as well as the people who reside in Florida. But that was before I moved here, so I can't say for sure. I do know that my old set of encyclopedias was chock full of the accomplishments of people of African heritage. (Where would the soybean be today without G.W. Carver? Charles Drew did more than play football in college.) Evidence the present day business empires created by young Afro-Americans like Russell Simmons, Spike Lee, Jay Z, Puffy, and many others... Remember, these cats started with nothing other than drive, determination, intelligence and vision.

I'm sorry to see this become a giant red asterisk in Jim Watson's biography.

**antiquity** · 26 Oct 2007, 10:04 AM

It's racist propaganda masquerading as scientific fact. Just because it came out of the mouth of a scientist doesn't negate it as personal opinion. The Federation of American Scientists said it was outraged that Watson "chose to use his unique stature to promote personal prejudices that are... unsupported by science."

He's a relic from the same era that insisted that women were genetically inferior to men and intellectually unsuited to excel in math and science and which spread similar "scientifically sound" claims about every non-white group on the planet. We're only eager to believe it in this context because it reinforces existing stereotypes and supports the status quo. If he had said the opposite, we'd be calling him a senile old man and applauding his resignation.

FO, you should know from Fox news that opinion doesn't = fact.

There are black rhodes scholars, presidential scholars, nobel prize winners, child prodigies, inventors, academics, scientists etc. They're invisible to us because they're rarely represented through the media. With few positive compensatory images to counter the negative, we never assume otherwise. But that's the goal of racism.

**Foolish Old** · 26 Oct 2007, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by IanTPoulter

so you support his statements that those of african descent are less intelligent than other ethnic groups due to genetics?

Get a life. I graduated from a TBC (Traditionally Black College). My high school was 60% Black (the PC word then) and my neighborhood was almost entirely Black. To this day, MANY (not "some") of my Very Best Friends have highly pigmented skin. ALL of them are highly intelligent. Aren't we all of African descent?

But no scientific question scares me, even if I think the premise is goofy. Should fetuses with Spina Bifida be aborted? I say no, but let's talk.

ETA - the research I wholeheartedly support is the broad field of genetics. If difficult questions arise, oh well!

**Steven Edwards** · 26 Oct 2007, 10:16 AM

What Watson said cuts both ways. He said "there is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically."

If Watson had said that Asians are smarter than whites, would it have been as controversial?

**Foolish Old** · 26 Oct 2007, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by darrel

racism is so ignorent, but what do I know, I just get to know ppl by there personallity and actions not by race/creed/beliefs there has been to many wars fought over this crap and I feel that man has come to far to keep falling back on stupid shit like this.

Some how I'm not comforted by the fact that we have advanced beyond questions of race (supposedly) only to kill one another over religious differences. One day genetics will solve the race issue. We recently learned that Obama and Cheney are cousins. The human race will be convincingly proven to be one human family. Will this be true with religion? Or will we continue to kill for the glory of God(s)?

**Foolish Old** · 26 Oct 2007, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by Steven Edwards

What Watson said cuts both ways. He said "there is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically."

If Watson had said that Asians are smarter than whites, would it have been as controversial?

What does Watson say about folks from the (s)low country?

**chick** · 26 Oct 2007, 10:54 AM

What was his exact statement(s), and in what context was it said?

What was said, was during an interview, so was it in response to a specific question asked?

The definitive statement that Africans are intellectually inferior, is not exploring anything, or asking any difficult questions about evolution, genetics, or even race. It may only serve to reinforce the 'racial identity' of the person making such a definitive statement, none of which is based in scientific evidence.

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Nobel Scientist Quits in Wake of Scandal

Nobel Scientist Quits in Wake of Scandal

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