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The difficulty of the Noachian Flood Story

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  • #31
    Originally posted by gpbullock
    who was/is responsible for the translation from hebrew or aramaic to english? How do the languages transfer to each other. Things can be gained and lost in translation.
    Scholars and theologians translated the holy books from one language to another. Certainly things can be added or lost, which is why translation is usually done in committee.
    Daniel

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Juke_spin
      And I believe that the particulars of the discussion of "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" can morph and multiply endlessly.
      Juke,

      This is why I deplore organized religion and believe dead certainty in one's spirituality can be damaging. Jesus was an amazing philosopher and His teachings are a commendable set of principles by which to live. His philosophy is a matter of practice for me and His divinity is a matter of faith. The two can be separated.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by dan_nc
        Scholars and theologians translated the holy books from one language to another. Certainly things can be added or lost, which is why translation is usually done in committee.
        True, moreover, looking into the history of the translation you use is quite interesting to learn as well. Many Protestants swear by the King James Version of the Bible. Little do they know of its history. It was first published in 1611. Interesting things about the 1611 edition:

        1. The letter J didn't exist. "Jesus" appears nowhere in the Bible.
        2. The Apocrypha is included.
        3. The foreword included the list of rules King James gave to the translators that they had to follow while translating. The motive was a political endeavor.

        Many other interesting things are probably worth providing to the King James-only crowd.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Le Type Français
          Why the huh? I'm not the one suggesting anything stupid. I was asking why Biblical fundamentalists use the Grand Canyon as an example of proof of a worldwide flood. I cannot tell you how many fundamentalists have done so. You'll watch a video entitled Is There Proof of God? and BINGO!, the Grand Canyon proves Noah's flood story.
          My "huh?" was not directed at you but at whoever that suggests that the Grand Canyon substantiates Noah's flood myth. I must admit that no fundamentalist has told me what they believe is evidence of Noah's flood. By the way, I am also having understanding the story as an allegory. The myth posits that person (Noah) saved all living things from a cataclysmic event with God's help. Is this true literally or mythically?

          Wise.

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          • #35
            probably

            one and then the other. Like when you say something to someone at the beginning of the line and after 20 people the story has changed and no longer reflects the facts of the event but has changed due to the passage of time and translation of those telling the story. Look at the Christopher Columbus tale where when I was in grade school he was a benevolent adventurer who "discovered" the Americas to todays academics describing him as a murdering rapist without honor.

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            • #36
              Grand Canyon and other canyons where created when all the earths land masses where one. as they split apart and the plates shifted , the canyons where formed. the land masses today are always shifting and moving.
              oh well

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              • #37
                Originally posted by kenf
                Grand Canyon and other canyons where created when all the earths land masses where one. as they split apart and the plates shifted , the canyons where formed. the land masses today are always shifting and moving.
                I beg to differ, but it is widely accepted that the Grand Canyon was created though erosion brought on by the Colorado River, starting some six million years ago.

                Maybe your thinking of the Colorado River basin which was formed 40 million years ago.

                sidebar: My wife and I hiked into and camped in the Grand Canyon on our honeymoon 32 years ago.

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Canyon

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                • #38
                  i'm talking 2 billion years ago. the Colorado river is so tiny to the canyon itself. as high as the walls are the river would have to be massive to carve it out. why do they find fosils in the artic and other places where they should not be. at a time , all land was once one. the plates below the earth has moved them apart over billions of years and is still doing it , ever so slowly.
                  oh well

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                  • #39
                    I was quite intrigued as a child when I learned about Pangaea.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by kenf
                      i'm talking 2 billion years ago. the Colorado river is so tiny to the canyon itself. as high as the walls are the river would have to be massive to carve it out. why do they find fosils in the artic and other places where they should not be. at a time , all land was once one. the plates below the earth has moved them apart over billions of years and is still doing it , ever so slowly.
                      The river flows, from what I understand, were of a much greater volume and speed in the past.

                      I took a geology class in college, but I won't try and rely on that knowledge to give you an explanation. Here's a better one:

                      "As you look into the canyon, you also notice that the layers are all eroding in different shapes. Some form hard straight cliffs and some form soft gentle slopes. The reason the canyon is so wide and so impressive is that its walls are made of many different types of rock. Hard rocks like schist and granite form narrow gorges. Limestones and sandstones form sheer cliffs, and mudstones and shales form soft slopes. As the soft slopes melt away under the rains (few as they are!), they melt backwards, and retreat from the edge of the Inner Gorge. As they undercut the hard layers above them, those layers crumble, and large blocks of talus tumble onto the soft slopes, protecting them from erosion at least for a while. In this way, the whole canyon is widening. While the river does the cutting down, other forces help widen the canyon. Rain, ice, plant roots, even burrowing animals, all help to weather and erode the rocks of the walls and widen the canyon. If the canyon were composed entirely of limestone, we would have a 5,000-foot deep, very narrow and sheer gorge, instead of the stair-step spectacle before you."

                      http://www.hitthetrail.com/geology1.php

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by gpbullock
                        who was/is responsible for the translation from hebrew or aramaic to english? How do the languages transfer to each other. Things can be gained and lost in translation.
                        You got that right.
                        The book in question is the BIBLE. A book we set our hand upon when swearing to tell the TRUTH. A book that has ruled people's lives for centuries. Be it good rule or BAD rule. The book that divided people. That called people more horrid names than a lifelong sailor.

                        A book that put women in centuries of oppression. A book that showed a very very angry God. And we are suppose to be made in that image. Then the chimp also is made almost in the image of God.

                        The writings of Jesus are reported to have existed. We don't get to read those. Or is that just another Fairy Tale?

                        When do the Fairy Tales stop?
                        Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by gpbullock
                          one and then the other. Like when you say something to someone at the beginning of the line and after 20 people the story has changed and no longer reflects the facts of the event but has changed due to the passage of time and translation of those telling the story. Look at the Christopher Columbus tale where when I was in grade school he was a benevolent adventurer who "discovered" the Americas to todays academics describing him as a murdering rapist without honor.
                          More like a madman; everything Columbus referenced to prepare himself for the voyage told him that at best no passage to India would be found and at worst that he would sail his ships, his crew and himself into disaster. He then presented a totally revised version of the proposed voyage's prospects to queen Isabella and got his support and grant. He was stark, raving mad.
                          Last edited by Juke_spin; 10-03-2007, 02:46 PM.
                          "The world will not perish for want of wonders but for want of wonder."
                          J.B.S.Haldane

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                          • #43
                            When asked which is the deepest or biggest canyon in the world, many Americans may reply the Grand Canyon. Not only is it not the deepest canyon in the world, it is not the deepest canyon in the Americas, or even North America. In North America, the honor belongs to Hell's Canyon in Idaho and Oregon. In South America, both Cothuasi Canyon and Colca Canyon in Arequipa, Peru are deeper.

                            The world's deepest canyon is said to be the Yarlung Tsangpo Canyon in Tibet and it is slightly longer than the Grand Canyon, and hence is often regarded as the largest canyon in the world. This is followed by the Kali Kandaki Gorge in Nepal. The third is the Polung Tsangpo Canyon in Tibet. The fourth is the Catahuasi Canyon (3535m) in South America. The fifth is the Tekezé gorge (2000m) in Africa.

                            I recently visited the Taroko Gorge in Taiwan, this incredible marble and granite gorge carved out Taiwan's mountain range and tectonic plates some 4 million years ago. The Liwu river continue to deep the gorge at the rate of 5 mm per year (Source). A local doctor told me that it is deeper than Grand Canyon.

                            I wonder if any of these canyons would be pointed to as evidence of the Noachian Flood?

                            Wise.

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                            • #44
                              I knew that the Grand Canyon wasn't the largest or deepest in the world but it is fascinating to know that there are so many other spectacular canyons. The knowledge almost makes them seem common place--almost.

                              When I was in the Grand Canyon I imagined I was exploring the surface of a distant planet orbiting a distant burn. Too many Sci-Fi stories and movies I guess.

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                              • #45
                                also if you include canyons you can't see. the trench in the pacific ocean , i beleive is like 35,000 feet deep. then mount everest is about the same going up. thats a 70,000 feet difference. thats like 13 miles. crazy planet we live on.
                                oh well

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