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Do Fish Feel Pain?

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    #16
    Originally posted by Wise Young View Post
    What you can do if the fish is unhealthy:
    • Put the fish on ice and freeze them.
    • If you have access to MS222, anesthetize them first, and then freeze.

    Wise.
    MS222 is sold commercially in pet stores as Finquil (the chemical I mentioned in my post) but I don't believe it is necessary to freeze the fish after administering it. If the dose is high enough and the fish is left in the water containing it for a sufficient time, my experience has been that is enough to kill the fish. Humanely and without undue stress on the fish.

    Freezing a fish isn't pretty and I am not convinced they feel nothing as they freeze to death. But that is just my opinion based on what I have observed with my own fish.

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      #17
      Originally posted by orangejello View Post
      MS222 is sold commercially in pet stores as Finquil (the chemical I mentioned in my post) but I don't believe it is necessary to freeze the fish after administering it. If the dose is high enough and the fish is left in the water containing it for a sufficient time, my experience has been that is enough to kill the fish. Humanely and without undue stress on the fish.

      Freezing a fish isn't pretty and I am not convinced they feel nothing as they freeze to death. But that is just my opinion based on what I have observed with my own fish.
      OJ, thank you for giving the commercial name of MS222. I am glad that it is available to the public. When the fish is anesthetized and then frozen, it feels nothing when it is frozen. Rather than waiting for the fish to die of anesthetic overdose, one can put the anesthetized fish into a freezer and the death results from the freezing. However, if one cannot get the anesthestic agent, putting the fish on ice and putting it in a freezer is better than cutting its head off or flushing it down the toilet.

      Wise.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Timaru View Post
        Quote Dr. Young: I do know that they will avoid noxious stimuli by swimming way (sic).

        Having been a fisherman since I was old enough to hold a rod I cannot agree with this.

        In order to avoid noxious stimuli (pain) a fish would swim toward the angler to lessen the "pain" however when hooked a fish swims away from the angler increasing pressure on the hook hold thereby increasing the "pain".

        I believe a fish fights because it's being pulled off course, ie. it wants to swim in a straight line but the angler is pulling it to the left, the fish then pulls hard to the right to regain it's original bearing, this continues until it either escapes or is on the bank.
        Now Timaru if a giant someone threw a giant hook at you and it stuck would you really run toward them?
        If you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.


        Sometimes it is easier to widen doors than it is to open minds.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Timaru View Post
          Quote Dr. Young: I do know that they will avoid noxious stimuli by swimming way (sic).

          Having been a fisherman since I was old enough to hold a rod I cannot agree with this.

          In order to avoid noxious stimuli (pain) a fish would swim toward the angler to lessen the "pain" however when hooked a fish swims away from the angler increasing pressure on the hook hold thereby increasing the "pain".

          I believe a fish fights because it's being pulled off course, ie. it wants to swim in a straight line but the angler is pulling it to the left, the fish then pulls hard to the right to regain it's original bearing, this continues until it either escapes or is on the bank.
          I was referring to noxious stimulation such as poking a fish on the side. In high school, I spent my summers on an island south of Tokyo called Miyake-jima. I did skin-diving and have speared many fish for dinner. They will swim away when you try to spear them and graze them.

          I don't know what motivates a fish to swim towards or away from a fisherman when it has been hooked. Probably, it is just swimming to get away and sometimes this may be towards and other times it is away from the fisherman. As I said, I don't know whether what the fish is feeling.

          Wise.

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            #20
            I feel sorry for the fish ....I was hungry.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Wise Young View Post
              OJ, thank you for giving the commercial name of MS222. I am glad that it is available to the public. When the fish is anesthetized and then frozen, it feels nothing when it is frozen. Rather than waiting for the fish to die of anesthetic overdose, one can put the anesthetized fish into a freezer and the death results from the freezing. However, if one cannot get the anesthestic agent, putting the fish on ice and putting it in a freezer is better than cutting its head off or flushing it down the toilet.

              Wise.
              Wise, I agree that ice is a far better option than cutting off the head or flushing a fish. I guess the point I was trying to make is if Finquel is used properly, it kills aquarium fish peacefully within minutes and removes the need to freeze. It is available fairly cheaply and quite easy to obtain as most large pet stores do carry it. As far as I know, it is the only fish anesthestic that one can buy commercially.

              Going off topic but I remember the first time I needed to euthanize a fish. It was about 9 years ago and I was surprised by how many web sites there were devoted to the subject. One site in particular gave a very lengthy explanation (complete with photographs) of what the author called the most humane way to do it: electrocution. He had battery packs and all kinds of wires running in and out of a full fish tank. And I thought that is great, but what happens if you accidentally electrocute yourself along with the fish. Sorry for the diversion . This thread just reminded me of that.

              I want to believe that fish don't feel pain. But I think they do.

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                #22
                Wise you are starting to sound like some Bass fishermen I know. We would argue for hrs over whether it hurt them to rip a hook in their mouth and have it swallowed, if it didn't hurt them why would they bleed and sometimes die? ha!

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by addiesue View Post
                  Now Timaru if a giant someone threw a giant hook at you and it stuck would you really run toward them?
                  When I fish I move like a wraith in the night and cast my fly with such skill and delicacy it lands on the water as gently as a butterfly with sore feet (I wish)!

                  How would the fish know where I was?

                  Originally posted by Wise Young View Post
                  I was referring to noxious stimulation such as poking a fish on the side. In high school, I spent my summers on an island south of Tokyo called Miyake-jima. I did skin-diving and have speared many fish for dinner. They will swim away when you try to spear them and graze them.

                  I don't know what motivates a fish to swim towards or away from a fisherman when it has been hooked. Probably, it is just swimming to get away and sometimes this may be towards and other times it is away from the fisherman. As I said, I don't know whether what the fish is feeling.

                  Wise.
                  Your school holidays sound idyllic particularly to someone facing the dank greyness of an English Winter.

                  Have you any ideas as to why trout can be "tickled", this is the art of spotting a fish under a rock, gently slideing your hand under it then stroking it's belly until it falls into a coma when it can be grabbed behind the gills and thrown onto the bank. What causes it to go into this trance like state?

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                    #24