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  • Question for California, Florida and New Jersey travelers & residents

    In your states it is law for hotels to have 8 inches of clearance underneath an ADA bed, correct? Dumb question, but this is what you actually find? I'm just pinching myself over here because it runs so counter to everything I've experienced as a Midwesterner.
    Hotel list: Hoyer-friendly beds, low and adjustable-height beds

    Blog: https://thewheeledwonder.wordpress.com/

  • #2
    Originally posted by Spitzbub View Post
    In your states it is law for hotels to have 8 inches of clearance underneath an ADA bed, correct? Dumb question, but this is what you actually find? I'm just pinching myself over here because it runs so counter to everything I've experienced as a Midwesterner.
    [7] Observations of nine models of lifts (see below) show that most personal lifting devices need 5.5 inches or less of vertical clearance under the bed, while a few that use larger wheels for greater ease of maneuvering on carpet, need 6.5 inches of clearance. The most common metal bed frames provide 7 to 7.5 inches of clearance under the bed, depending on whether they are outfitted with floor glides, casters or rug rollers. That is sufficient clearance for the front legs of even the highest lifting devices.

    For example, two leading manufacturers, Leggett & Platt and Hollywood Bed & Spring, provide standard metal bed frames for all sizes that stand 7 inches to 7.5 inches high, depending on the choice of floor glides, casters or rug rollers. While a lower frame could be acquired, the standard 7-inch high models, of which there are many choices, will accommodate the 4-1/2 inch high front forks the common Hoyer Advance portable personal lifting device (www.joerns.com/lifting-repositioning/advance) as well as other lift models. This would allow meeting the requirements of future USDOJ standards and would ensure meeting the current California building code requirement for a clear height of 7 inches under the bed (Section 1111B.4.3):
    (2010 CBC) 1111B.4.3 Access to beds. Accessible sleeping rooms shall have a 36-inch (914 mm) clear width maneuvering space located along both sides of a bed, except that where two beds are provided, this requirement can be met by providing a 36-inch-wide (914 mm) maneuvering space located between the beds. In addition, there shall be a clear space under the bed for the use of a personal lift device. The clear space shall be on a long side of the bed adjacent to an accessible aisle. The clear space shall extend horizontally to points not more than 12 inches (305 mm) from each end of the bed, vertically not less than 7 inches (178 mm), and not less than 30 inches (762 mm) deep.

    Comment


    • #3
      While that is indeed the law, my experience is that it is rarely followed and even more rarely enforced in California.

      Also, keep in mind that Hoyer is just one brand of lift (with several models). The correct generic term is "floor-based mechanical lift". Just like all tissues are not Kleenex.

      (KLD)
      The SCI-Nurses are advanced practice nurses specializing in SCI/D care. They are available to answer questions, provide education, and make suggestions which you should always discuss with your physician/primary health care provider before implementing. Medical diagnosis is not provided, nor do the SCI-Nurses provide nursing or medical care through their responses on the CareCure forums.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SCI-Nurse View Post
        While that is indeed the law, my experience is that it is rarely followed and even more rarely enforced in California.(KLD)
        Hotels that do not follow the laws need to be fined everyday until they do. It will never change if they are not held accountable.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hacknsack44,

          Very interesting, thanks. What are you quoting here? I clicked the link but it was dead.

          This issue is been a great personal frustration of ours for a long time now, and I'm trying to dig around to find out how widespread a problem it really is and how to go about changing things.
          Hotel list: Hoyer-friendly beds, low and adjustable-height beds

          Blog: https://thewheeledwonder.wordpress.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SCI-Nurse View Post
            While that is indeed the law, my experience is that it is rarely followed and even more rarely enforced in California.

            Also, keep in mind that Hoyer is just one brand of lift (with several models). The correct generic term is "floor-based mechanical lift". Just like all tissues are not Kleenex.

            (KLD)
            Can you suggest any groups or agencies (in California or otherwise) out front in advocating these accessibility standards?

            Thanks for the reminder re the term Hoyer.
            Hotel list: Hoyer-friendly beds, low and adjustable-height beds

            Blog: https://thewheeledwonder.wordpress.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              You might try contacting Access Northern California: http://accessnca.org/

              We used to have a great non-profit called Accessible San Diego that did a lot of advocacy work, but they sadly no longer exist, although some of their functions have been taken over by a city office: https://www.sandiego.org/plan/visito...traveling.aspx

              Not sure what is available at this time in the LA area. The LILA (Living Independently in LA) network used to be helpful but the URL I have for that is no longer any good. Some CILs (Centers for Independent Living) may help out.

              https://www.ilru.org/projects/cil-ne...ory-results/CA

              (KLD)
              The SCI-Nurses are advanced practice nurses specializing in SCI/D care. They are available to answer questions, provide education, and make suggestions which you should always discuss with your physician/primary health care provider before implementing. Medical diagnosis is not provided, nor do the SCI-Nurses provide nursing or medical care through their responses on the CareCure forums.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Spitzbub View Post
                Hacknsack44,

                Very interesting, thanks. What are you quoting here? I clicked the link but it was dead.

                This issue is been a great personal frustration of ours for a long time now, and I'm trying to dig around to find out how widespread a problem it really is and how to go about changing things.
                I can't find the page again but this one mentions it 16(c). https://dredf.org/public-policy/dred...leeping-rooms/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Spitzbub View Post
                  In your states it is law for hotels to have 8 inches of clearance underneath an ADA bed, correct? Dumb question, but this is what you actually find? I'm just pinching myself over here because it runs so counter to everything I've experienced as a Midwesterner.

                  It is not a law on ground clearance under a bed because those that travel with lifts is a very small %

                  Remember ground clearance doesn't mean that the bed needs to be poster style it can still be on a platform

                  But with that said there are many options.

                  Just have to be armed with the right information and understand the business when shopping for a hotel that will meet your needs.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    KLD, Hacknsack, Rollinpositive, thanks for all the info and suggestions to follow up on.
                    Hotel list: Hoyer-friendly beds, low and adjustable-height beds

                    Blog: https://thewheeledwonder.wordpress.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RollinPositive View Post
                      It is not a law on ground clearance under a bed because those that travel with lifts is a very small %
                      Actually, it is the law in CA, which has California's Title 24 accessibility requirements. Title 24 of the state building code has a requirement for a seven-inch clearance under the bed. It is based on data gathered by Access Compliance Services in 2000 and updated in December 2010.
                      Section 1111B.4.3):
                      (2010 CBC) 1111B.4.3 Access to beds. Accessible sleeping rooms shall have a 36-inch (914 mm) clear width maneuvering space located along both sides of a bed, except that where two beds are provided, this requirement can be met by providing a 36-inch-wide (914 mm) maneuvering space located between the beds. In addition, there shall be a clear space under the bed for the use of a personal lift device. The clear space shall be on a long side of the bed adjacent to an accessible aisle. The clear space shall extend horizontally to points not more than 12 inches (305 mm) from each end of the bed, vertically not less than 7 inches (178 mm), and not less than 30 inches (762 mm) deep. Note: This 12 horizontal inches is a restrictive provision that could be larger to allow for a deeper bedside table.

                      Source: http://www.stanoes.com/pdf/fpb/calif...lding-code.pdf

                      (KLD)
                      Last edited by SCI-Nurse; 09-25-2019, 11:33 AM.
                      The SCI-Nurses are advanced practice nurses specializing in SCI/D care. They are available to answer questions, provide education, and make suggestions which you should always discuss with your physician/primary health care provider before implementing. Medical diagnosis is not provided, nor do the SCI-Nurses provide nursing or medical care through their responses on the CareCure forums.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SCI-Nurse View Post
                        Actually, it is the law in CA, which has California?s Title 24 accessibility requirements. Title 24 of the state building code has a requirement for a seven-inch clearance under the bed. It is based on data gathered by Access Compliance Services in 2000 and updated in December 2010.
                        Section 1111B.4.3):
                        (2010 CBC) 1111B.4.3 Access to beds. Accessible sleeping rooms shall have a 36-inch (914 mm) clear width maneuvering space located along both sides of a bed, except that where two beds are provided, this requirement can be met by providing a 36-inch-wide (914 mm) maneuvering space located between the beds. In addition, there shall be a clear space under the bed for the use of a personal lift device. The clear space shall be on a long side of the bed adjacent to an accessible aisle. The clear space shall extend horizontally to points not more than 12 inches (305 mm) from each end of the bed, vertically not less than 7 inches (178 mm), and not less than 30 inches (762 mm) deep. Note: This 12 horizontal inches is a restrictive provision that could be larger to allow for a deeper bedside table.

                        Source: http://www.stanoes.com/pdf/fpb/calif...lding-code.pdf

                        (KLD)
                        California needs to enforce the law! Why doesn't the ADA follow these guidelines?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HACKNSACK44 View Post
                          California needs to enforce the law! Why doesn't the ADA follow these guidelines?
                          The Access Board (which is responsible for ADA standards development) does so with input from the public. You can certainly contact them to encourage them to include this in their standards. While there are no hotel/lodging standards set for revision or public comment now, you can still give input to them for future revisions: https://www.access-board.gov/

                          You can also file complaints within CA for violations of these building code standards, generally through the county, but it is a much more difficult process.
                          https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CCD...forcement.aspx

                          (KLD)
                          The SCI-Nurses are advanced practice nurses specializing in SCI/D care. They are available to answer questions, provide education, and make suggestions which you should always discuss with your physician/primary health care provider before implementing. Medical diagnosis is not provided, nor do the SCI-Nurses provide nursing or medical care through their responses on the CareCure forums.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SCI-Nurse View Post
                            Actually, it is the law in CA, which has California's Title 24 accessibility requirements. Title 24 of the state building code has a requirement for a seven-inch clearance under the bed. It is based on data gathered by Access Compliance Services in 2000 and updated in December 2010.
                            Section 1111B.4.3):
                            (2010 CBC) 1111B.4.3 Access to beds. Accessible sleeping rooms shall have a 36-inch (914 mm) clear width maneuvering space located along both sides of a bed, except that where two beds are provided, this requirement can be met by providing a 36-inch-wide (914 mm) maneuvering space located between the beds. In addition, there shall be a clear space under the bed for the use of a personal lift device. The clear space shall be on a long side of the bed adjacent to an accessible aisle. The clear space shall extend horizontally to points not more than 12 inches (305 mm) from each end of the bed, vertically not less than 7 inches (178 mm), and not less than 30 inches (762 mm) deep. Note: This 12 horizontal inches is a restrictive provision that could be larger to allow for a deeper bedside table.

                            Source: http://www.stanoes.com/pdf/fpb/calif...lding-code.pdf

                            (KLD)

                            I think its very important when you put something out there that you add context to it.


                            "The requirement you cite is a requirement of the California Building Code (CBC) accessibility requirements for transient lodging guest rooms. The 2013, 2016 and 2019 CBCs include this requirement in Chapter 11B, Section 11B-806.2.3.1. It is important to understand that building code provisions apply to newly constructed buildings and existing buildings undergoing alteration."

                            Derek M. Shaw
                            Supervising Architect
                            Phone (916) 324-7178
                            Fax (916) 445-7658


                            As an major traveler in California most hotels are older prior to 2013.

                            But more important we are a community that needs to stop looking at the travel industry Arline's, hotels, cruise lines etc as the bad guys.

                            Is there room for improvement ...there is!!

                            But most here wont do much more then complain here and that doesn't change anything.

                            I have pointed out in years on this site and others successful ways to get hotels to provide the features needed to enjoy a trip.

                            Have even helped many here book and search out hotels, air flights, cruise ship needs etc.

                            Today I am working on a trips to Las Vegas, Dallas and Los Angeles for Ability expo for people.

                            So please stop the negative and relax and learn to travel with mobility and lifts and enjoy!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Note that this regulation was in place in in the 2000 and 2010 standards as well. In addition, few older hotels have not undergone renovation since these standards went into effect.

                              Not sure why you have to be so self-righteous about your ease of travel, which does not include the need to use a lift, as many here do.

                              (KLD)
                              The SCI-Nurses are advanced practice nurses specializing in SCI/D care. They are available to answer questions, provide education, and make suggestions which you should always discuss with your physician/primary health care provider before implementing. Medical diagnosis is not provided, nor do the SCI-Nurses provide nursing or medical care through their responses on the CareCure forums.

                              Comment

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