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    #16
    the straight oxycodone is not a stronger narcotic than name brand name percocet or the generic percocet which is oxycodone w acetaminophen.
    for many uses the combination of acetaminophen and oxycodone work well together for pain its the synergistic effect, i didn't find the it worked any better on neuropathic pain though.
    just something to keep in mind for long term use.
    cauda equina

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      #17
      Metro is right.it is the 'long term" use that people will start having liver and kidney problems with.when tylenol is used occassionally there usually is not a problem or even one or two per day usn' t an issue either,its when you are taking enough per day,where you are getting close to the recomended max dose of 4000 mgs or long term reccomended of 3000mgs that you can possibly start the cell damage.

      people,but mostly thier Rxing docs really do need to look at just how much tylenol some of their patients are actually taking everyday.the constant slamming of the liver and kidneys with that stuff,over time will just naturally start affecting the two most vulnerable organs,the liver and kidneys.

      there are many many people who are sitting on the 'list' right now who are waiting very impatiently for new livers and kidneys due almost solely to the tylenol toxicity that started in there body when the tylenol really started the cell damage process.those organs can only handle a certain amount,and then damage will set in.that realistic amount is not always the same for every individual person,it will vary depending on the individuals physiology,and what other meds they may be taking that are extensively metabolized by the kidneys and liver.that combonation of some meds just use up the needed chemical that is in those organs that is used to metabolize those specific meds.

      The thing is,when there are other options availiable that do not have any tylenol,they should be used if the patient feels they really do not want to be on something long term that can eventually start causing problems.

      my pain clinic will not Rx any meds that contain any tylenol,at all.when you are a chronic pain sufferer,well it just puts things in a bit different perspective from a med standpoint.you really do need to look at what the possible long term issues could be,with any med that you have been Rxed on a long term basis.why risk it if you don;t actually have to.If your doc will not Rx any tylenol free meds for you,you really DO need to seek out a good PM doc who will.You just don't know what that "cut off' point is with regard to how well your body will metabolize that tylenol over the long haul.some people are just much more susceptable to possible damage than others.

      I do hope your doc will do this for you.I think if you just sit down with him and really discuss the tylenol aspects of the meds he has you on and what could possibly happen over the long term,that he would really consider doing this for you.It wouldn't hurt to actually do some research on the tylenol and damge to kidneys and liver over time before you actually see him again.having actual research documents there with you that he can read,would really help alot.some docs are really totally clueless when it comes to this issue.good luck,Marcia

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        #18
        i am sure that people that consume any alchol, even just a glass of wine at night are really increasing the acetaminophen based dangers
        cauda equina

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          #19
          Oh,thats a definite metro.that double whammy of tylenol along with alcohol has been proven over and over again as being the sole reason for some folks to go into total liver failure.the effects are really really frightening.since both of them are very extensively metabolized by the liver,when taken at the same time,they will use up all the availiable gluthethione and then the cell damage will start.it is probably one of the top five most dangerous combinations of things that can be taken together,really bad.

          i know when pallidone(sp?) hit the market it was going to be a new wonderful long acting med for chronic pain patients.I was even going to speak with my PM about trying it as I have a really good response to dilaudid.but when the patients who were taking it decided to actually drink any alcohol with it,or even the alcohol that is contained in certain cold meds,they started seeing these patients go into almost sudden and total liver failure and of course the drug got pulled almost as soon as it hit the market.i don't know exactly what the real reason was for the toxicity when used along with any alcohol at all, but wow,that was a real bad one there.

          ya just gotta remeber when you see any warning label on any med that states it is not to be used with alcohol,its not always just the fact that alcohol will increase the amount of side effects,it can also kill you,or at the very least,cause some really nasty damage to specific organs.Marcia

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            #20
            Hi, everyone. Hope the pain is less severe today. I must disagree with the assertion that tylenol doesn't work on our kind of pain. To illustrate consider the following. Firstly let me state that so far Percocet is the only pain med that works for me. Recently my pain doc put me on four 7.5/325 percs a day as opposed to the six 5/325 I was taking. My very first usage of the new dosage resulted in the following. First let me say that I was in some considerable pain before taking the new pill, but not overwhelmong like it can become. Now I usually take one and one half of the 5/325's and 95% of the time obtain relief from the pain I was then having. One pill stopped working some time ago, which is the reason for the addition of a half pill. When I took the new 7.5/325 I still had pain. I'd say about 20%. I don't know about anyone else but 20% of this pain is totally unnaccecptable. It's like if your whole body was on fire and someome put out all of the fire exept the fire on you arm. You wouln't be able to live with that.

            So to make a long story longer, I couldn't understand what was going on until I realized that I was not taking the same amount of tylenol as one and a half of the 5/325's. I went and got a 325 tylenol I had, cut it in half, took it, and the pain went away immediatley. In my case anyway it appears to be the combination of quick acting oxycodone and tylenol that relieves the pain. Interestingly enough, my pain doc made the same assumption that it was not the tylenol that was giving me relief, but the codiene only!! I have since, switched pain docs.

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              #21
              I know that tylenol IS a good pain killer for some things,I never stated that it doesn't work for anyones particular pain,only that it can become a real problem for some folks who are taking the higher amounts over long term.

              I really DO find your response to it kind of amazing tho(but totally great for you)just given the nature of your pain and the tylenol being pretty low at what would be considered a 'good' pain killer,you know what I mean?.the thing is,when it comes to what actually works for someone,it is a very highly individual thing.ya just stay with what works for you.I am glad you changed PMs tho.i'm sure you are too.hope it will continue to work for you.Marcia

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                #22
                Originally posted by eagle18
                Hi, everyone. Hope the pain is less severe today. I must disagree with the assertion that tylenol doesn't work on our kind of pain
                thats interesting.. i know that tylenol amd oxy together work better than either alone. the same way neurontin,oxycodone and amitriptyline do.

                i would also double check the manufacturer of the pain meds, are they all the same? as much as the insurance companies push generics, i find them not as good as the name brand.
                cauda equina

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                  #23
                  guess i'm overly bored and just happened upon this old thread an thought i'd update.

                  i've been on oxycodone 40mgs every 12 hrs. for about 6 months now i believe. its definitely better on the pain than lortab 10/500. i still take the lortab in between for "breakthrough" pain but not nearly as much as i used to. i'm really hoping i didn't damage my liver cause i used to have to overdo the lortabs an they still only gave minimal relief.

                  my pain dr. is old and been sick a lot lately. dunno what i'll do if he retires. do ya think another pain management doc would keep me on oxy if i show him my prescription an let them know i've been on it for ever how long? i know i've ran out for a few days before an on the 2nd an 3rd day i was feelin awful. spasms were off the charts, stomach tight, back pain returning, kinda depressed feeling. i'm sure thats my body dependency showing its addictive side. it sucks that a medicine that actually helps ppl with pain management is so hard to get prescribed to ya.

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                    #24
                    I tried a friends (ab) percocet the other night at bed as was in lot of hip andpain. I also took bachlophen (20mg) and zanaflex (2mg) which I take normally which doesn't subside the pain just relaxes me a little spasm wise. I have taken Vicoden, with bach and zanaflex it helps. (WHich was orig prescribed by a er doc for a burn i had) with no problems.
                    Anyways, after taking percocet bachlophen and zanaflex I suddenly woke up at 4AM not being able to breathe out of my nose, but able to out of my mouth! Freaky!! and scarry. Too much drugs? ?

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                      #25
                      rolling you mean Oxycontin every 12 hours right?
                      oxycodone is the short acting version, basically percocet without the Tylenol
                      cauda equina

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by metronycguy
                        rolling you mean Oxycontin every 12 hours right?
                        oxycodone is the short acting version, basically percocet without the Tylenol
                        thats it.....

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                          #27
                          Hi rollin,ya know,most people do not actually get the full 12 hours that the manufacturer states it gives,i am one of them,luckily for me,my pain clinic is also aware of this problem in other people too and allowed me to take mine every 8 hours instead of the 12.the thing is,oxy releases its first dose at one hour and then does another release at six.i cannot remeber for sure but i think that IS the last release on the med,so having it not actually work for the full 12 would be completely understandable really.my pain clinic will always start someone on the 12 hour schedule unless they actually tell the NP that it just dosent feel like it is working the full 12.as soon as i told them that i was getting very real pain back way before the 12 hour mark was up,they just changed me right there to the every 8.maybe if you spoke with your PM and told him that this stuff is just not making it the full 12 hours,he could do the 8 hour thing instead.

                          when someone is suffering from any chronic pain,actually expecting any dose of narcotic to actually make it a full six hours is really stretching it.most people if they are lucky,will obtain only four at best.

                          already being on a particular med for as long as you have been,if you switched PMs,it would probably just be continued.this is what mine did anyways and acrually started raising it up slowly til i actually felt some good relief.i was on a very low dose of oxycontin when i was referred to my current PM.just make sure you go to an actual PM for pain management.any other doc may want to try and take you off of it,but a good PM knows to stay with what is working for the patient.

                          glad you finally got onto a good long acting med tho rollin.discuss the lack of relief after a certain point with your PM.if you don't say anything about it,they may just assume that you are getting the full 12 hours.hopefully by speaking up,you will be able to go to every 8.that change alone helped me sooo much in maintaining a more even 'temper' with my pain.

                          the thing is,when you are actually on an every twelve schedule,you are in reality waiting about thirteen hours for that next dose since oxycontin actually takes about an hour to actually release that first dose.after that you are basically playing catch up with your pain,then it just becomes a roller coaster just like when you are chasing it with short acting meds.ya see what i mean?have that 'talk" with your doc.good luck and i hope he can see what your real needs are.let us know how it all goes,K?marcia

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                            #28
                            i totally agree with firemurf... tynole is really bad for you and when i took it i got terrible headaches in the back of my head and neck... i take oxycodone 10 with 800 ibprophen...and stop taking it at 5 pm so i can sleep.

                            hope this helps

                            peace
                            rona

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                              #29
                              A quik thanks to all of you...

                              Since I stumbled upon this site I have been overwhelmed with the amount of REAL information that all of you have provided for me. Myspace wasn't cuttin it! lol! I am a t5 para now 2 yrs post. I fractured my c1 as well and by the grace of god there was no cord damage there. I am fused from t3-t7 and it feels like I have a railroad track with a huge amount of commuters using my back day and night. Due to my accident I had many more broken bones. I have adjusted very well and am thankful to be alive(most of the time). As you all can imagine, or in fact know first hand, I have extreme chronic pain all over my body. I am trying to figure out the best path to help relieve the pain. Right now I take 4-6 percocet 10/650 during an 18 hour day. I was not fully aware of the affects of the tylenol on the liver and kidneys. Well I know for me, that tylenol does not alleviate any pain. So why take it? I have an appointment tomorrow with my physiotris (sp?) and I will discuss different options. Also, It seems that most of you have pain management dr's I'm guessing I should probably get a referral for one. Any who- Thanks to all of you! peace and be well, JAMES

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                                #30
                                hi james,and welcome.i too think switching to the long acting version of oxy would really be in your best interest at this point.why take the tylenol if you really do not have to?in calculating the actual amount of tylenol you are taking in when you have to go to the six times a day(3900),you are very very close to that max amount for occasional use and way over the 'safe' amount for chronic or daily usage,which is down to around 3000mgs.and if you are taking any other meds that are metabolized in the liver,well this just gets a bit more 'unsafe" as far as your actual risk for liver cell damage.this really does need a change soon.if your doc does not actually see the real risk here in this,switch to a good PM doc,they DO know the best way to treat pain in most cases and the risks of chronic tylenol usage.over time,this just really can take its toll on your liver and also the kidneys,why even go there when there ARE better and safer meds availiable ya know?

                                a physiatrist can be a great PM doc when he or she has the right info and knowledge to really understand our needs,but if he will not switch you to oxycontin,well look for that referral to a doc who will,that would in most cases be the pain doc.also,in most pain clinics,they can offer you sooo many new and different modalities to try and treat your pain that most other specialists just cant.i think it would be well worth the time and effort to seek out a good pain management doc for your pain control.i really don;t know just how bad off i would really be here without my PM.

                                good luck with the appt,i hope he will see your need for the OC or refer you to someone who will.please keep us posted,K?

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