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    #16
    Originally posted by Duck View Post
    I have awfull also . Enough so I have suicide , not sucessfull , I know next time though I will be . I believe your guys pain is worse than mine . Why not just kill yourself ? Seriously , its never going to get any better , shit we all know this . I know next time when I have had enough i am gone . Very sad , but no alternative .
    Hey Duck, Are you serious?

    If so let me give you a bit of advice.

    First: wait a year before doing anything.
    It does get better. Not the pain, that only gets worse.

    Find a good pain specialist and get on some meds. There are some that actually work for some folks and not others.

    I use 75 mph Fentynal Patches 24/7, these do not get rid of the pain, but without them I would feel like you: at the edge of my limits of what my body and mind can stand and would probably do something foolish, like shoot myself.

    Wait for a few years, you will meet people who will help you in life. This does happen. I fell in love twice and had some wonderful experiences. You can too!

    Don't go off and kill yourself before giving LIFE a chance. I can say this because I have been giving life a chance for 20 years of pain. The first 14 years the pain was not all that bad and I had some wonderful times that I cherish. These days tho' I am unable to function very well, my wife of 12 years and I split up a few months ago, she saying that our lives were nothing that we didn't do anything, not really seeing that this is not my choice but that the pain is the controlling factor of my life and mobility. So now I live alone have help 2 times a week and am still hanging there.

    Don't do anything rash, yet. Give your self some time to experience life.

    Hope this helps.

    gary
    Last edited by Garyis; 18 Jul 2011, 1:16 AM.
    Gary Is = L-1 Para for 34 years.....................
    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by cass View Post
      totally untrue. he never even asked for medical records.

      http://thechp.syr.edu/death_with_dignity.htm

      so, let's just get rid of cc and pwd. problem solved.

      and, btw, read what his fellow med students wrote about him. dr. death epithet came from them.
      People have a right to die if they want, and he helped them
      exercise that right.

      He didn't kill healthy people or kill without ones permission.

      A lot of people suffer unnecessarily because your selfish opinion
      is shared by so many people.

      Comment


        #18
        really? did he take his own medicine in the end? i'll answer that for you, buck: no, he didn't. and i never expressed an opinion in this thread on assisted suicide. read more closely before you call my opinions selfish. my opinion was on kevorkian.
        btw, you obviously didn't bother to read my link as gary kindly did. gary cc is carecure and pwd is people with disabilities. ty, gary, for reading link.
        Last edited by cass; 18 Jul 2011, 3:48 AM.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by cass View Post
          really? did he take his own medicine in the end? i'll answer that for you, buck: no, he didn't.
          But he was healthy until he died, so why would he have killed himself? I saw him give an interview with Bill Maher not too long before it and the man seemed fine.

          Cass, your own link states that the people Kevorkian helped end their lives were indeed not whole individuals and chose that option. People with disabilities have as much a right to choose to end their lives as those with terminal illnesses. Whether it's terminal cancer or an incurable ALS, what's the difference? You have a right to die.

          Comment


            #20
            Kevorkian's death: Kevorkian had struggled with kidney problems for years.[49] He had recently been diagnosed with liver cancer, which "may have been caused by hepatitis C," according to his longtime friend Neal Nicol.[50] Kevorkian was hospitalized on May 18, 2011, with kidney problems and pneumonia.[3] Kevorkian's conditions grew rapidly worse and he died from a thrombosis on June 3, 2011, eight days after his 83rd birthday, at William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan.[3]

            It appears his condition deteriorated rapidly and death was due to onset of pneumonia.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Le Type Français View Post
              But he was healthy until he died, so why would he have killed himself? I saw him give an interview with Bill Maher not too long before it and the man seemed fine.

              Cass, your own link states that the people Kevorkian helped end their lives were indeed not whole individuals and chose that option. People with disabilities have as much a right to choose to end their lives as those with terminal illnesses. Whether it's terminal cancer or an incurable ALS, what's the difference? You have a right to die.
              i don't think you read the whole thing. i also don't think you've read his writings. and yes, i am aware of how and where he died.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by cass View Post
                i don't think you read the whole thing. i also don't think you've read his writings. and yes, i am aware of how and where he died.
                Let's set aside our opinions of Kevorkian as they're clearly different. You had mentioned we don't need doctors like him but research in pain (a concept I obviously support), but research doesn't exactly mean results in one's lifetime, so I ask you, Cass, doesn't the principle of helping a suffering individual end his suffering have any validity?

                Comment


                  #23
                  Giving Chronic Pain a Medical Platform of Its Own

                  I just read this from a just released article about pain:

                  "The risk of suicide is high among chronic pain patients. Two studies found that about 5 percent of those with musculoskeletal pain had tried to kill themselves; among patients with chronic abdominal pain, the number was 14 percent."

                  The article appears here for those of you who have pain; http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...rm-of-its-own/
                  Gary Is = L-1 Para for 34 years.....................
                  ~~~~~~~~~~

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Le Type Français View Post
                    Let's set aside our opinions of Kevorkian as they're clearly different. You had mentioned we don't need doctors like him but research in pain (a concept I obviously support), but research doesn't exactly mean results in one's lifetime, so I ask you, Cass, doesn't the principle of helping a suffering individual end his suffering have any validity?
                    of course the principle does, but like any principle, it's how it is implemented which must be scrutinized. and please don't misquote me. i did not say "doctors like him" i said "idiots." he lost his med license long ago.

                    so, to continue your thought on pain research, consider this: since sci research doesn't exactly mean results in one's lifetime, then doesn't the principle of helping a suffering individual end his/her suffering also apply? when? 2 months post, 5 yrs? or should we focus on support in terms of depression, financial, etc.? perhaps you prefer kevorkian's outlook (you don't have to look hard to find it) which was: better to harvest organs from those unfortunates to supply those more fortunate.

                    almost anybody can end their life by many means. yes, there are a few exceptions. but refusing medical treatment is one. having a directive in place is important if not cognizant. people overdose on meds and alcohol all the time. i find the whole issue a bit moot. if one wants to commit suicide, one will find a way. AIDs patients were doing it for a time there, but wait, bet that's tapered off quite a bit.

                    we have had the assisted suicide law in WA state since 2009, oregon even longer. neither really has been used much considering ab's views of how much the terminally ill are suffering (the laws only apply to them).

                    people already have the choice. the question is, how many are having it made for them? therein lies the debate.

                    so, enough hijacking this thread. if you wish to continue, i'd suggest a new thread off the pain forum.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Garyis View Post
                      I just read this from a just released article about pain:

                      "The risk of suicide is high among chronic pain patients. Two studies found that about 5 percent of those with musculoskeletal pain had tried to kill themselves; among patients with chronic abdominal pain, the number was 14 percent."

                      The article appears here for those of you who have pain; http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...rm-of-its-own/
                      ty for that article. but frankly, i almost laughed at the examples of chronic pain. childbirth?? where was sci, ms, als, etc. mentioned?? that article was a bit of a mystery. but it sure is long overdue in mainstream media. been through childbirth, caesarean and all, while sci and already suffering central pain. thought i was going to die from the combination.
                      Last edited by cass; 20 Jul 2011, 1:14 AM.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by cass View Post
                        of course the principle does, but like any principle, it's how it is implemented which must be scrutinized. and please don't misquote me. i did not say "doctors like him" i said "idiots." he lost his med license long ago.
                        That's semantics, not intentionally trying to misquote you.


                        Originally posted by cass View Post
                        so, to continue your thought on pain research, consider this: since sci research doesn't exactly mean results in one's lifetime, then doesn't the principle of helping a suffering individual end his/her suffering also apply? when? 2 months post, 5 yrs?
                        I leave that up to the individual with the condition. I want them to have the legal option, just as I want women to have the right to an abortion. I want people to have the choice and not have the state intervene in personal decisions affecting only the individual.

                        Originally posted by cass View Post
                        almost anybody can end their life by many means. yes, there are a few exceptions. but refusing medical treatment is one. having a directive in place is important if not cognizant. people overdose on meds and alcohol all the time. i find the whole issue a bit moot. if one wants to commit suicide, one will find a way. AIDs patients were doing it for a time there, but wait, bet that's tapered off quite a bit.
                        Yes, but suicide done by oneself isn't always clean and successful. I'd rather an individual be put to sleep by a doctor than leave a bloody scene blowing his head off with a gun.

                        Originally posted by cass View Post
                        people already have the choice. the question is, how many are having it made for them? therein lies the debate.
                        True, I agree that it should be the choice of the suffering individual, not any member of kin.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by cass View Post
                          so, enough hijacking this thread. if you wish to continue, i'd suggest a new thread off the pain forum.
                          If the OP or mods want to move this discussion, I support that. I'm reading this suggestion now.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            ppl do have the choice. suicide is not even illegal any more in any u.s. state, i don't believe. and pills are easy to get.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Le Type Français View Post
                              That's semantics, not intentionally trying to misquote you.
                              I don't know why you bother. You're dealing with someone who
                              can't have a civil discussion.

                              Go engineers.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                I read your link, Cass.

                                I still believe, and always have, that assisted suicide should be possible even for people who are not terminally ill. As Todd implied, many attempted suicides are *attempted* suicides only because the people committing them didn't have sufficient medical knowledge to make them succeed.

                                I personally know a lady who jumped under a train when she was diagnosed with Huntington's Disease. She woke up with no legs and one arm. An acquaintance of my sister, who had full-blown AIDS but eventually lived for another two years, attempted suicide by drinking a chemical unblocker. After that, he had to be fed through a tube because his esophagus and stomach were to badly damaged to work properly.

                                Do you really think any of that is better than responding to an assisted-suicide ad in a newspaper? Yes, the ad may have been put there by a man who believed that the voluntary self-elimination of the disabled would be in society's best interest. But it was also put there by a man who knew how to kill people gently.

                                The most crucial question in this context is whether or not the people Kevorkian killed chose to die. There is nothing in the link you provided to suggest that any of the people mentioned there were killed against their will.

                                Comment

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