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    #31
    Originally posted by Shelley0064
    ok, i've got another question for ya'll -- my son has a foley catheter right now and they are wanting to take it out and have him cath on his own -- he is scared to death that this is gonna hurt? he has sensation there, but no muscle control -- can anyone tell me with a L1 L2 break how much this will hurt? he is REALLY dreading it
    My injury is t12 and I have very good sensation there and I can tell you that it is not painful at all. I know most males think it must be extremely painful to cath...I constantly tell them it is not (good lubricant is a must). I also thought it would be painful but (at least for me) it is not!

    By the way it (cathing) is a must...the alternatives are much more painful. This will become second nature to him.

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      #32
      Sorry. Can't help you there because I have no feeling. I must tell you though that from what I have read, foley caths carry a lot more complications than clean intermittent catheterization. You can always talk to your doctors about putting a foley back in, but Intermittent catheterization is by far what is mostly recommended. They do sell gel with anesthetic ingredients, but consult his doctor before you decide to try anything on your own.

      Once removed, you should then see what type of bladder he has, if he voids without cathing and how much residual volume he has after voiding (cathing right after voiding will give you that information). If there is residual volume, perhaps a condom cath with 2 or three caths a day will do the job. If the residual volume is low, hopefully he will be able to cath less and rely on his voiding and condom caths. New products are coming out to make bag-wearing more comfortable and convenient (bioderm, etc). Consult your doctor.
      T6 complete (or so I think), SCI since September 21, 2003

      Comment


        #33
        By far, intermittent cath is the healthier way to manage his bladder. With an indwelling catheter he is more at risk for serious UTIs and stones are fairly common early after injury in young men due to the large amount of calcium they loose from their bones in their urine. Indwelling catheters increase the risk of stones. I am surprised that he still has an indwelling catheter in so long after his injury. Generally this should be started about as soon as the person is ready to leave the ICU.

        Long term use of indwelling catheters in men also significantly decreases fertility. If you want grandchildren, encourage him to get this out soon and start intermittent cath.

        If he has discomfort with catheterization, the nurses can help him learn how to use lidocaine jelly to numb things up a bit. Most men have many more fears about this (if you are Freudian, it is a type of castration fear) than is reasonable once they try it. Many men with full sensation do intermittent cath on a regular basis.

        An external condom catheter would not be appropriate for someone at his level at this phase of his recovery. He is very likely to have a flaccid bladder, due to both his level and spinal shock. Until about 3 months post injury it is not appropriate to consider urodynamics to determine the type of neurogenic bladder he has.

        In addition, it is much more "normal" looking to not have a urine bag hanging off him in his bed or chair. It certainly is not attractive, and a urethral catheter in men causes a lot of interference with sexual activity as well.

        (KLD)
        The SCI-Nurses are advanced practice nurses specializing in SCI/D care. They are available to answer questions, provide education, and make suggestions which you should always discuss with your physician/primary health care provider before implementing. Medical diagnosis is not provided, nor do the SCI-Nurses provide nursing or medical care through their responses on the CareCure forums.

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          #34
          thanks for the information everyone -- i will pass it on to him -- i have been wanting him to get on here so that he can talk to you all too, but like i said earlier, he has been having a problem with diarrhea and hasn't even been out of bed this last week, and they don't have internet capabilities in his room so that he can use his laptop -- hopefully he will get on here soon, as i feel like this is a great website for information and help for him -- it has helped me alot -- thanks -- shell

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Shelley0064
            ok, i've got another question for ya'll -- my son has a foley catheter right now and they are wanting to take it out and have him cath on his own -- he is scared to death that this is gonna hurt? he has sensation there, but no muscle control -- can anyone tell me with a L1 L2 break how much this will hurt? he is REALLY dreading it
            Sorry to here about your son. It seems that family members do have a harder time dealing with this thaqn some of the injured. I know my family did. As for cathing...I was scared too. My occupational therapist told me I had to learn and that it wasn no big deal. When I asked her when the last time she stuck a tube in her pee hole was, she said never. I told her that I would make a deal with her then. We could learn together. She could go on that side of the curtain and I would stay on mine, we could each cath ourselves, and then talk about how big of a deal it was or wasn't. I have sensation too and the truth is it's uncomfortable and inconvinient to do every four to six hours. However, it is necessary. Use a lot of lube (maybe with lidocaine), relax, take a deep breathe, and go slow. It will become second nature. Who knows, with any luck maybe bowel and bladder function will return.
            jOE
            www.nwiscig.blogspot.com

            Comment


              #36
              what is a Guy to think who is new to SCI......

              Tell every sci person that a cure is coming......floss each day, take time for yourself and stretch.......& deny everything and get your Ass to D.C. on the 29apr06.....your pal.......conrad

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by KTM236
                My injury is t12 and I have very good sensation there and I can tell you that it is not painful at all. I know most males think it must be extremely painful to cath...I constantly tell them it is not (good lubricant is a must). I also thought it would be painful but (at least for me) it is not!

                By the way it (cathing) is a must...the alternatives are much more painful. This will become second nature to him.
                I also have good sensation. Feels a bit weird but doesn't hurt at all.
                C5/6 incomplete

                "I assume you all have guns and crack....."

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by jplw
                  Sorry to here about your son. It seems that family members do have a harder time dealing with this thaqn some of the injured. I know my family did. As for cathing...I was scared too. My occupational therapist told me I had to learn and that it wasn no big deal. When I asked her when the last time she stuck a tube in her pee hole was, she said never. I told her that I would make a deal with her then. We could learn together. She could go on that side of the curtain and I would stay on mine, we could each cath ourselves, and then talk about how big of a deal it was or wasn't. I have sensation too and the truth is it's uncomfortable and inconvinient to do every four to six hours. However, it is necessary. Use a lot of lube (maybe with lidocaine), relax, take a deep breathe, and go slow. It will become second nature. Who knows, with any luck maybe bowel and bladder function will return.
                  Wow jOE. Did she go through with her part of the deal?
                  C5/6 incomplete

                  "I assume you all have guns and crack....."

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by jplw
                    Sorry to here about your son. It seems that family members do have a harder time dealing with this thaqn some of the injured. I know my family did. As for cathing...I was scared too. My occupational therapist told me I had to learn and that it wasn no big deal. When I asked her when the last time she stuck a tube in her pee hole was, she said never. I told her that I would make a deal with her then. We could learn together. She could go on that side of the curtain and I would stay on mine, we could each cath ourselves, and then talk about how big of a deal it was or wasn't. I have sensation too and the truth is it's uncomfortable and inconvinient to do every four to six hours. However, it is necessary. Use a lot of lube (maybe with lidocaine), relax, take a deep breathe, and go slow. It will become second nature. Who knows, with any luck maybe bowel and bladder function will return.
                    Oh dude, that's brutal! Have you tried the coated catheters? If not, I'd seriously consider going in that direction. They're prelubed and glide effortlessly.

                    This has been one of my fears. I've often thought about what it would be like to get sensation return but no motor and have to feel the cath everytime.

                    I had a Foley inserted at an ER one time. It felt like she was pouring hot lava down my thunen. I can't imagine having to feel that several times a day. Talk about a living hell...
                    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." ~ Thomas Jefferson

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by RehabRhino
                      Wow jOE. Did she go through with her part of the deal?
                      Hell no, but I had to learn. I had a SOMI brace on so I couldn't look down. They gave me these neeto prism glasses, so I could see what I was doing. I am thankful every day for the blessing that I recieved one year into this SCI thing. I got spontaneous bowel and bladder control. It's not perfect...only 200 cc at a time and a few accidents, but I don't have to cath anymore. Tell your son that anything is possible, but it seems from what you have told us that he will be able to roll with the punches pretty well.
                      jOE
                      www.nwiscig.blogspot.com

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Shelley0064
                        hi -- my son is in the Navy and was in a car accident on 2/24/06 -- he is currently in rehab in the VA hospital -- he has an L1 L2 break with pins and rods -- his back surgery was on 3/7/06 -- his spinal cord injury is incomplete -- what are his chances of walking? the doctors are very skeptical, but i have been told that they prepare you for the worst, but hope for the best -- this has been very devastating to me, but he is dealing with it alot better than I am -- any input from this forum would be very much appreciated. shelley
                        no, he is having to do bowel care and he still has a foley catheter -- actually, yesterday and today he has had bad diarrhea
                        ok, i've got another question for ya'll -- my son has a foley catheter right now and they are wanting to take it out and have him cath on his own -- he is scared to death that this is gonna hurt? he has sensation there, but no muscle control -- can anyone tell me with a L1 L2 break how much this will hurt? he is REALLY dreading it
                        Shelley,

                        Based on the information that you provided above, I have the following impressions that you may want to discuss with your son and his doctors.

                        First, an L1/L2 injury is just below where the spinal cord is and where there are nerve roots. The spinal cord ends just below L1. Your son may have injured the tip of this spinal cord, called a conus injury. Or, he may have injured just his spinal roots, called a cauda equina injury. Conus and cauda equina injuries are amongst the most difficult conditions to diagnosis and also to predict functional recovery. I wrote an article last year to try to explain the diagnosis of lower thoracic, conus, and cauda equina injuries and you may want to take a look at that posting, as well as the discussion by others (http://carecure.org/forum/showpost.p...19&postcount=1) . Depending on what was injured, there is a possibility that he will recover substantial function over time, including walking. I know several people who are walking after a L1/L2 injury. On the other hand, there is also a likelihood that he will have residual neurological loss particularly in bladder and anal sphincter which are innervated by the lowest spinal segment (S4 and S5) which are located at L1. I think that the prediction that he will not walk in the future is premature.

                        2. If your son does indeed have sensation when he is catheterized, this is a very good news, not something to be scared of. This is because it would indicate that his S4 spinal cord is still intact. He may regain some bladder control and sexual function.

                        3. He is still only one month after injury and people often continue to recover a year or more after injury. Some even continue to recover more than 2 years after injury. Thus, it is important not to give up hope. On the other hand, whatever recovery does occur may take a long time, many months or even years. The only way to deal with such a situation is to work hard for as much recovery as possible.

                        4. I wouldn't worry about his diarrhea. That should pass. Is he getting antibiotics? That is often a cause of diarrhea.

                        If you have any questions about the above, please don't hesitate to ask.

                        Wise.

                        P.S. I have a nephew who is in the Navy (Marine).
                        Last edited by Wise Young; 9 Apr 2006, 4:17 PM.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          JPLW, man, congratulations. You got the ultimate SCI present. I look forward to not having to do bowel and bladder care (preferably with the ability to orgasm, ok, that will go on may letter to Santa) than to ambulate. Hopefully one day we will have all of the above.
                          T6 complete (or so I think), SCI since September 21, 2003

                          Comment


                            #43
                            thanks for the info joe -- that is hilarious -- i actually had told my son the same thing when i was out there with him early on -- you just want to ask them "so when was the last time this happened to you? how do you know what it feels like" -- thanks alot - i am passing this on to my son -- by the way his name is Chance -- i will refer to him by name

                            thanks -- shell

                            Comment


                              #44
                              thanks rhino for your input -- i will pass it on to Chance -- he know he will have to, but really dreading it -- hopefully today he will "bite the bullet"

                              shell

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Dr Young, wow -- that was a great article -- glad you sent that to me -- your input and information is the greatest info that we have received yet from any doctors or therapists-- and also, you are right about the antibiotics, they took him off of what he was taking and his diarrhea has stopped -- thanks alot for your help --

                                shelley
                                Last edited by Shelley0064; 10 Apr 2006, 11:18 AM.

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