TiLite Wheelchairs

[TiLite]

Any progress on this? I understand if it's no-go, but I'm in limbo here and so is my poor local TiLite dealer. Once again, the quote number is 254336.

I'm sorry QTiPi!! We didn't follow up with you. Thanks for checking back in. I've been on vacation and missed this post.....
I checked with our Engineering Team and they indicated things like more seat slope and a larger COG will help in decreasing RSH, but only in certain chairs. In this case, on the ZRA, it will help. If anyone is looking for any extreme measurement, e.g. minimum or maximum of any one thing, they just have to request that. Our team can figure that out and put it on the CAD, rather than you having to request hard numbers and just keep guessing. That is much easier on you, and us. Hope this helps and again I apologize for the delay in the response.

[QTiPi]

I'm considering taking the plunge and going up to the ZR instead of the ZRA. One of the appeals of the ZR is the ability to get a welded back. However, I NEED bolt-on, not integrated, push handles. Is this combination achievable? Bolt-on push handles are "Not available with Ti Back" per the order form. I had assumed that this was simply because the new rounded rigidizer bar that comes standard with a titanium back is not suitable for bolting/clamping things onto. However, it's an option to get the usual 4" deep rigidizer bar on the titanium back, and I suppose you would have said "not available with new rounded rigidizer bar" if that's what you meant. So if the combo of welded (therefore titanium) back with bolt-on push handles (the height-adjustable ones in my case) is not possible, what is the limitation? Is it a bolting problem or a welding problem?

[TiLite]

I'm considering taking the plunge and going up to the ZR instead of the ZRA. One of the appeals of the ZR is the ability to get a welded back. However, I NEED bolt-on, not integrated, push handles. Is this combination achievable? Bolt-on push handles are "Not available with Ti Back" per the order form. I had assumed that this was simply because the new rounded rigidizer bar that comes standard with a titanium back is not suitable for bolting/clamping things onto. However, it's an option to get the usual 4" deep rigidizer bar on the titanium back, and I suppose you would have said "not available with new rounded rigidizer bar" if that's what you meant. So if the combo of welded (therefore titanium) back with bolt-on push handles (the height-adjustable ones in my case) is not possible, what is the limitation? Is it a bolting problem or a welding problem?

The bolt-on push handles are not available on titanium backrest due to the wall thickness of the tubing. The titanium wall thickness is considerably less than the aluminum. You would need to go with a folding aluminum back.

[stephen212]

The bolt-on push handles are not available on titanium backrest due to the wall thickness of the tubing. The titanium wall thickness is considerably less than the aluminum. You would need to go with a folding aluminum back.

Let me throw this idea out as a possible solution. If the back post are fabricated from the larger 1.25" diameter tubing (same as the seat frame), then the same mounting clamps used for the adjustable height footrest can be used on the back posts. This would allow the user to achieve the objective of an adjustable height push handle.

My ZR2 has a fixed back with custom-requested 1.25" diameter back posts, so this can be done.

Problem solved. Next!

[QTiPi]

Let me throw this idea out as a possible solution. If the back post are fabricated from the larger 1.25" diameter tubing (same as the seat frame), then the same mounting clamps used for the adjustable height footrest can be used on the back posts. This would allow the user to achieve the objective of an adjustable height push handle.

My ZR2 has a fixed back with custom-requested 1.25" diameter back posts, so this can be done.

Problem solved. Next!

Unfortunately I don't just need them to be height-adjustable, I also need them safely out of my way so I don't repeatedly bang my arms on the things, which I'd assumed meant attached to the rigidiser bar rather than the backposts. It's my understanding--I could well be wrong--that user TiLite is saying that the tubing they use for the rigidiser bar is too thin-walled to take the pressure of a clamp, and if that's the case they'd have to reinforce it somehow because if they simply used the thicker tubing of the frame then the larger diameter would preclude the push handle clamps fitting. But perhaps I've got it wrong. I suppose your plan might work with a new and wacky design of push handle that bent sharply inwards from the backpost before turning sharply upwards.??

Seems odd that TiLite doesn't have an off-the-shelf solution for this one. I can't be the only one with a need for bolt-on push handles AND a desire for a welded, play-free back. I'd think the difficulty would arise any time someone wanted an extremely low back and the ability to get assistance without making the poor AB bend WAY down.

[tooley]

Seems odd that TiLite doesn't have an off-the-shelf solution for this one.

Seems odd that you'd want to go with a manufacturer from the opposite side of the globe that is hesitant to build truly custom wheelchairs.

If I were you.... (but I'm not) check out Oracing wheelchair. ANYTHING and EVERYTHING - https://www.facebook.com/pages/Oraci...9663?sk=photos

as an example....



I realize you are not a little girl, but I offer this image as an example of the type of pushers you seem to be describing. I like how they can be completely removed if you know you won't need them. Check out the link above, if it's got wheels they can build it.

BTW, they are now building titanium chairs, if that's the reason you are choosing TiLite.


(FWIW I am not affiliated with them at all, just own and enjoy one)

[QTiPi]

Seems odd that you'd want to go with a manufacturer from the opposite side of the globe that is hesitant to build truly custom wheelchairs.

If I were you.... (but I'm not) check out Oracing wheelchair. ANYTHING and EVERYTHING

It's tempting, tooley, it really is. But I don't feel safe buying without prior access to a trial chair I can use to confirm measurements, and as far as I know there is no Oracing dealer here in NZ. The trial chair is important, getting the measurements just right is important, because the difference between a chair I can use well and a chair I can't use at all is very slight. (I'm not SCI, but I'm classified as a 0.5 in rugby, so if you imagine the least able members of that sport class you'll get a reasonable picture of what I can do.) TiLite's adjustable height push handles will do the job perfectly, including dropping the handle right down or removing it for loading in the car, etc...but that's not much use if they can't attach them to the back I want! I HATE the play I get in my current folding backrest, especially when being pushed, and I hate that I have to carry the extra weight of that unnecessary folding hardware. I want a welded backrest. But I NEED push handles mounted more centrally than the backposts. :-|

[tooley]

The trial chair is important, getting the measurements just right is important ....

How far are you from Christchurch? Would a Melrose Piranha not be your best bet? They make some incredibly custom sports chairs, I'm sure bolt-on pushers would be a cake-walk for their fabricators.

Finding a perfect fit loaner chair seems a little far-fetched. I had basically assumed (you stated you were looking to upgrade from a ZRa to a fixed-frame model) that you knew your measurements. Believe it or not, measurements from one manufacturer to another translate quite easily once you achieve an understanding of wheelchair geometry and how changes in seat height, dump, and COG effect one another. This won't happen overnight. I tweaked my first chair (an 18x18 ZRa with a ridiculous 75-deg front-end and stupid wide foot-plate) until I could wheelie it down ramps comfortably. A year and half later I had placed the order for a smaller, far more nimble, completely non-adjustable Oracing XTR. I bit my nails for 2 months awaiting its' arrival, opened the box, threw a cushion on it and never changed a thing. It wasn't luck. I put in the work and didn't let anyone else tell me what I needed.

My suggestion - find a dealer that will loan/rent you an adjustable chair, such as a ZRa or possibly an Icon, that is a good width for you. Shine them on, like who cares what some salesperson really thinks, if they want to believe you are going to buy from them so be it. Then start tweaking that loaner until you get it bang-on. If it's not, try a different chair. Once you can wheel for a week straight in it and not want to change anything start measuring. Take accurate measurements and order whatever type of chair you want from whoever you want. It's not rocket science, you just have to trust yourself.

Good luck.

[JeffAdams]

How far are you from Christchurch? Would a Melrose Piranha not be your best bet? They make some incredibly custom sports chairs, I'm sure bolt-on pushers would be a cake-walk for their fabricators.

Finding a perfect fit loaner chair seems a little far-fetched. I had basically assumed (you stated you were looking to upgrade from a ZRa to a fixed-frame model) that you knew your measurements. Believe it or not, measurements from one manufacturer to another translate quite easily once you achieve an understanding of wheelchair geometry and how changes in seat height, dump, and COG effect one another. This won't happen overnight. I tweaked my first chair (an 18x18 ZRa with a ridiculous 75-deg front-end and stupid wide foot-plate) until I could wheelie it down ramps comfortably. A year and half later I had placed the order for a smaller, far more nimble, completely non-adjustable Oracing XTR. I bit my nails for 2 months awaiting its' arrival, opened the box, threw a cushion on it and never changed a thing. It wasn't luck. I put in the work and didn't let anyone else tell me what I needed.

My suggestion - find a dealer that will loan/rent you an adjustable chair, such as a ZRa or possibly an Icon, that is a good width for you. Shine them on, like who cares what some salesperson really thinks, if they want to believe you are going to buy from them so be it. Then start tweaking that loaner until you get it bang-on. If it's not, try a different chair. Once you can wheel for a week straight in it and not want to change anything start measuring. Take accurate measurements and order whatever type of chair you want from whoever you want. It's not rocket science, you just have to trust yourself.

Good luck.

Icon distributes through Mogo Wheelchairs in Australia/New Zealand, so they have both an Icon and the ability to do a custom build for you or to do a modification to an Icon.

Leon Callihan would be the person to contact - leonsjc@gmail.com

Please don't do what Tooley suggested - it's an incredibly shitty thing to do, because it costs people real money for you to trial a chair, and if your intention is to just go buy another one, it's really dishonest. It also puts wear and tear on my demos, which costs me money.

I would suggest that you can be honest with the person you expect service from, and let them know that you need to use the Icon to get measurements for another chair. I would suggest either negotiating a fee for this service, or commit to ordering a Mogo from him if you use one of his Icon demos to get custom measurements, but please don't try to take advantage of them, or "shine them on" as suggested.

http://www.mogowheelchairs.com.au/


@Tooley - This isn't the way to encourage better service from dealers or manufacturers - this kind of shit happens to us all the time - I don't know what you do for a living, but imagine someone running you around and getting good service from you only to go somewhere else to spend their money.

[~Lin]

I agree that its pretty shitty. I was really upset when I found out the OT doing my evaluation (no choice there, picked by Voc Rehab) was not using the dealer I'd set up my demo through, but is going to purchase my Icon through a NuMotion dealer. I happen to also have a particular issue with that company, even though its a different office she's working with. When the guy I've been working with came to pick up the Icon, I told him not to do any more work on it since it seems the OT is going to be using NuMotion, but since NuMotion had specifically told me they could not arrange an Icon demo or work with Icon I would let him know if things changed. He replied that this sort of thing happens to him all the time, where he puts in tons of work and its not until the absolute last minute until the person tells him oh nevermind I'm going to use X, and he really appreciated me being straight up with him. I think that's awful, and feel really guilty about the extra time he spent with me and going to extra mile for me to demo the Icon longer etc, only for the OT (who while refusing to participate in the demo to learn about the chair herself, was kept in the loop about everything this DME was doing) to bring in someone from someplace I did not want to work with.

[QTiPi]

For my last chair, I trialled a bunch of different things and ended up with a shortlist of three. I felt guilty enough that I had to turn down two chairs--and two reps who'd done so much to get those chairs shortlistable for me--that I don't think I could ever deliberately use someone like that. In addition, the New Zealand setup is generally companies with exclusive contracts to represent particular brands of chair in New Zealand, so if I screwed over, say, the local TiLite rep, that would make it difficult or impossible to go down the TiLite route in future. I don't want to lose any goodwill here.

What I have done today is speak to one of the bigwigs at Melrose who was in Auckland for the wheelchair basketball nationals today. He assures me they CAN do sub-14.5" RSH with 25" wheels and that height-adjustable bolt-on push handles on a fixed back are no problem. He's going to do me a CAD to confirm it can be done. If so, and if the expected price is within cooee of my budget, then I'll have a decision to make. I don't want to let my TiLite guy down, but I need a chair that will work for me, and will continue to do so even if, as it appears, I'm going to have to move to a thicker cushion. That means the lowest RSH we can reasonably get. And since I'm never going to get more able (quite the reverse) the push handles are essential. It IS possible to get the push handles i need from TiLite provided either that I compromise and get a folding back (so much for the dream chair) or persuade them to solve their particular engineering problem at a price I can afford. Big decisions. I WANT a TiLite. I NEED a chair that works for me. :-|

[elarson]

I'm a bit disappointed that I still have not heard anything back about this post, despite sending a private message...

Hi TiLite,
Over time there have been questions about what the differences are between frames: Power Adaptable, Reinforced and Heavy Duty. Can you answer some questions, and include any other information that might be useful? ....

[elizabeth422]

I am on the last steps of ordering a new chair. I am ordering a aero Z but the problem i have having is deciding on a color.. I want one that will not scratch or chip. Does the light satin chip or scratch?

[~Lin]

elarson, it appears i was right about it being a cop out answer.

the is no such thing as a color choice that wont chip or scratch. The only option similar to what you want would be to get a titanium frame instead of a painted or powder coated aluminum one. And even with this option it wouldnt be chip or scratch proof but resistant, with scratches showing less on a satin finish or being able to be polished out.

[elarson]

Climb/descend stairs using backrest rigidizer bar?

Someone recently posted a question (see this post#24) about what is stated in the documentation about climbing/descending a flight of stairs with the user in the wheelchair. The documentation says the following:

The assistant at the rear of the chair is in control of this procedure. He or she must tilt the chair back to its balance point on the rear wheels and roll it to the edge of the first step. NEVER attempt to lift a wheelchair by lifting on any removable (detachable) parts, including upholstery and removable push handles or push handle grips.

The documentation does not say where the assistant at the rear of the chair is suppose to hold onto the chair. To me the only other logical place to hold onto is the backrest rigidizer bar, and is how we do stairs. Technically the backrest is a removable (detachable) part. Can TiLite please make a statement about whether it is safe to use the backrest rigidizer bar to hold onto, and if not, where the assistant is suppose to hold onto the chair?