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    #31
    Wise

    I really can't see any of those system working here. Anyone of them would put us into a recession. The only way I could see something close to universal care working is if we set up medicare and medicad to sell policies to people who were rejected or refused a reasonable premium to purchase a policy. Then everyone that needs heathcare can obtain it if they really wanted it.

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      #32
      I have seen it today. I really don't know what to say.

      I pay about $250 a year for my health care and I pay very little tax here because I am on disability. And I have to pay for some of my medication. The rest I get for free, my chairs, my electric bed with the tempuric madrass, the modification for my house, even my car I get for free every 11 year.

      We have waiting lists, too long I think, but I can go to a private hospital if I want and have the money. I go to the rehab twice a year to see how my body is doing because I am too many years post SCI. This year I have been to two different rehabs and 14 days on the hospital and I did not pay a dollar.

      So the movie made me speechless, just like the French and the English we can see in the movie.
      TH 12, 43 years post

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by TheRainman
        Ian

        We have several problems with that system here. If we adopted that system here it would kill our economy. We would have to raise taxes on the rich and middle class. We would go into a reccession then we would have a bigger problem. JOBS.

        Another thing you don't know about americans, we don't like waiting. You put rich or middle class income people on a waiting list you'll have a real problem.
        Higher taxes dont necessarily cause recessions particularly when it is a tax for something that most people are paying for anyway. Just makes it more equitable, youn know everyones putting their bit in then. Just make sure your tax is put to the right uses. In my experience Americans are no more impatient than Australians.
        Heres something that Bill J said in another thread that made me think
        However, by far the leading cause of bankruptcy –well over 50% – is not “deadbeats” but hospital and health related bills.
        Nobody in any advanced civilised country should go broke paying their health costs, thats just wrong.
        Last edited by IanTPoulter; 3 Jul 2007, 6:03 PM.

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          #34
          Originally posted by lynnifer
          The doctors within the States would never allow universal health care. Perhaps we in Canada would get a few of our physicians and nurses back!
          Lynnifer

          Why would all those doctors and nurses leave to work in such a messed up system like ours?

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            #35
            $$$$$$$

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by murrey
              Rainman , so you want a perfect society, no slackers. I believe parts of your system, like insurance companies are taking advantage of hard working innocent honest working people, who have worked hard all their lives. I have seen documentries on this. A woman worked hard her whole life,had life insurance , payed her way every day, then got cancer. She had money for her retirement. Eventually she lost everything she ever worked for. The insurance would not carry her after a number of visits to the hospital. They kept raising the premiums. So if you don't like slackers what about thieves? So when the old or crippled get old and can no longer contribute to society what do you suppose should happen to them?
              It is easy to have a certain point of view at different times in our life.
              Hopefully our views change so even the poor and downtrodden are included and are considered worthy of help. Money is a physical promise, but the person that loses compassion has lost it all.
              Just some thoughts to consider.
              Murrey

              I see were i'm not expressing myself properly.
              I have compassion for these people who fell on bad luck. But the truly responsible people would be abled to work things out if they were offered a policy with a reasonable rate. And i'm not talking about people with sever injuries like ours or cancer. Thats why I think they should be offered a reasonable policy through medicare. That wont hurt them financially.

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                #37
                Since it appears that you work in the insurance industry, I think you have been brain-washed into believing all that you write above, Rainman, but I don't think you are correct.

                Nurses are leaving Canada, Brazil and South Africa for the USA because of the salaries available in the USA, which are paid because our cost of living (including health care) is so high. They are aggressively recruited by the hospital industry because they can hire them more cheaply than USA trained nurses. It is not because our healthcare system is better. Nurses are leaving nursing in DROVES in the USA because they are unhappy with their working conditions and yes, having to say NO to patients all the time. I know that is what drove me out of the private sector and into the VA 18 years ago. I like to say 'yes, we can help you with that' without the insurance company telling me that I cannot do things for my patients that I know they need, which happened to me daily in my previous job in a supposedly non-profit hospital/rehab center.

                Do you honestly think that Medicare provides the coverage that elderly and disabled people need? I see people all the time who don't buy food because they need to use the money to buy drugs not covered by Medicare, or dressings, or bathroom equipment or catheters. They are not taking drugs because they cannot afford them, even at the risk of their health. The co-payments alone (20% and more) under Medicare will quickly bankrupt anyone who has a catastrophic illness like cancer, serious heart disease or a spinal cord injury. I see these patients often, because if they they are also veterans we are often their safety net, and they only come to the VA when they run through their other insurance or declare bankrupcy because they now have run through all the money they were saving for their retirement.

                I would gladly pay much higher taxes to fix our system. I don't want to pay higher taxes to fight a war, but health care should be a right, just like (as described in the movie) we have free public education, free libraries and free fire and police protection. Of course we pay taxes for all of that, but so far you don't have the fire department telling you that they won't put out your house fire without a 20% co-pay, or that the fire is not serious enough, or that you really don't have a fire, you only think you see flames shooting out of the windows....

                (KLD)
                The SCI-Nurses are advanced practice nurses specializing in SCI/D care. They are available to answer questions, provide education, and make suggestions which you should always discuss with your physician/primary health care provider before implementing. Medical diagnosis is not provided, nor do the SCI-Nurses provide nursing or medical care through their responses on the CareCure forums.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Lizbv
                  Cheesecake. What is the reason you have to "wait" for an MRI if you don't mind my asking?
                  The fricking insurance company keeps denying it. Better yet, the company my insurance company contacts with for diognostics keeps denying it. My insurance company says, "its not us, its them" Diagnosis is possible bone tumor with severe bone pain. It is crazy system we have.

                  Two years ago I lost sensory from C7 up to C3. The doctor requested MRI and hospital admission. We got the MRI in Dec (request Oct) but without the requested dye. I was finally admitted to the hospital in April. After 24 hrs I was discharged because the procedure I needed had a wait list(doctor)....for this we fork out over 24,000 a year.

                  A previous insurance company gave me great care for a high risk pregnancy. The next time we were to renew, they increased the company's cost by 70%.
                  The company went to a cheaper and less effective plan.
                  Every day I wake up is a good one

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by SCI-Nurse
                    I would gladly pay much higher taxes to fix our system. I don't want to pay higher taxes to fight a war, but health care should be a right, just like (as described in the movie) we have free public education, free libraries and free fire and police protection. Of course we pay taxes for all of that, but so far you don't have the fire department telling you that they won't put out your house fire without a 20% co-pay, or that the fire is not serious enough, or that you really don't have a fire, you only think you see flames shooting out of the windows....

                    (KLD)
                    I agree and think that is a great anaolgy for a more universal system. We have it in other areas why not health care!?!?!?!?!?
                    www.cawvsports.org
                    The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same. ~ Don Juan Matus
                    We are Virginia Tech… We must laugh again… No one deserves a tragedy… We are strong, and brave, and innocent, and unafraid…We are better than we think and not quit what we want to be…We are the Hokies…We will prevail, we will prevail, we will prevail. We ARE Virginia Tech! ~ Nikki Giovanni

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                      #40
                      For those of you who do live in countries with universal health care, can you give us an idea of what the "waiting list" times are like for various procedures? Is it easy to get a same day appointment for strep throat, fever etc? How long is the wait to have tonsils out? How long is the wait for CT/MRI for problems? I am not asking for those who are able to pay extra, but for the free coverage. If you can give me some examples, it would help me better understand how it works. I have heard about the waiting lists, but never from people who lived there. Thanks!

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                        #41
                        For strep throat, fever, you'd go to a walk-in clinic, wait up to 2 hours to see a doc and get a prescription. For CT/ MRI/ ultrasound it depends on the urgency. 3 to 6 months I'm guessing because I've only had them done in emergency situations. I know that if you don't want to wait, an ultrasound is $125, an MRI around $600 at a private clinic. Something like a hip/knee replacement can take up to a year.
                        www.worldonwheels.ca

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                          #42
                          Waiting lists

                          Originally posted by Karla523
                          For those of you who do live in countries with universal health care, can you give us an idea of what the "waiting list" times are like for various procedures? Is it easy to get a same day appointment for strep throat, fever etc? How long is the wait to have tonsils out? How long is the wait for CT/MRI for problems? I am not asking for those who are able to pay extra, but for the free coverage. If you can give me some examples, it would help me better understand how it works. I have heard about the waiting lists, but never from people who lived there. Thanks!
                          Hi Karla.
                          I have not seen the movie Sicko yet so I can’t comment too much about that one, but here are some answers from here;

                          We have some waiting lists on planned procedures, not for emergencies of course. A few years back there was some concern about the waiting time for some procedures; in general this is not an issue anymore after the whole hospital system has been revised. We have also what one calls free choice of public hospitals (again not for emergencies of course). We have also some private clinics which can be used, and which also are for free if a doc is sending you there. We can also go abroad to other countries for surgeries if there are no acceptable procedures here for a particular treatment. This is also for free, but the treatment must then have been documented to be of gain for the patient. So, there are quite a few options.

                          As for concrete waiting lists for some treatments, here are some, and remember we have a free choice of hospitals (more on that here, quality indicators can also be checked for hospitals), say if some does not want to wait the time at your local hospital at a given time for a given procedure;

                          Strep throat/fever – call and go directly to your doc and sort it out (we have a system which provides each citizen with one particular and permanent doctor).

                          CT – 1 week (see here).
                          MR – 1 week (see here).
                          Tonsils - 4 weeks (see here).
                          Heart surgery (or percutaneous revascularization “PCI” – 2 weeks (see here).
                          Hearth surgery (bypass “coronar bypass”) – 1 week (see here).
                          Artificial replacement of hip joint “coxarthrose” – 4 weeks (see here).
                          Arthroscopy – 2 weeks (see here).
                          Cervical proplapse surgery – 1 week (see here). Examination, 10 weeks.
                          EMG/neurography examination – 4 weeks (see here).
                          X-ray thorax – 0 week (see here).
                          X-ray/Examination colon – 1 week (see here).

                          Just a few current time examples. And all is free of coverage.
                          Hope it helps, Leif.

                          Edit: One thing though as for the US system when it comes to a personal experience. If not for this system my SCI would have been T4 complete, but lucky me for that system my SCI just ended up for me being just T4 incomplete (it was a very rare and complex SCI situation). Well, I guess there was many lucky factors in play; the system we have over here knowing about some of the experts for cases like mine in the US and that they could send me to the US (free of charge, but I would have paid it myself regardless if not), and I tell you, the whole trip was pretty expensive (flights for me and sis, she going back and forth a couple of times, surgery and rehab etc. over there), but not only that, the system here also allowed me to have with me two neurosurgeons from here, cause as the professor here from our national hospital said; “I send them over with you to learn some from the procedure to take back with them”. The US surgeons btw were originally from Germany. So as for the US system, it is very good in many ways, e.g. for rare conditions and say for a small country like mine, because we can’t have specialists for every rare case. Thus the US being such a large country they can have specialists in many fields, which is a good thing (above that, we also take in foreign patients where we have capacity and experience)… So I personally had a very good experience with the US system, the surgery went perfect and the stay there after at the hospital and rehab was also very good. Clean and good facilities and very nice staff. Well when it comes to clean hospitals, some over here you can eat from the floor at. Can’t say that about a university hospital I first was at in Paris, holy molly, there was shit everywhere and the grumpy nurses was sitting smoking just over the corridor from the intensive care unit I was at, and buddy laying next to me with a big “turban” on his head after a brain surgery was pissing so much in his bed the urine was flowing over his bed like rivers onto the electrical motors under his bed -me just waiting for both of us to be electrocuted (lol). But, above that, I do understand some of the problems with the US system, insurance issues for example, like some of the Sicko movie kind of addresses I guess - buddy at the same room I had at one time at the hospital in the US, a nice old man "retired deputy sheriff", got his wife visiting him a few days after he ended up at the hospital, asking him what she should do with the bill for the ambulance that took him there?
                          Last edited by Leif; 4 Jul 2007, 7:43 AM.

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                            #43
                            http://www.health.gov.on.ca/transfor...public_mn.html

                            $30 cash to have a form signed yesterday by a clinic physician (I filled it out, he just signed it). $20 cash the week before for a note. I waited less than ten minutes each time to see a doctor who just got here from South Africa. The clinic is on the same block where I live and I was able to just wheel there. My own family physician would have taken 2-6 weeks to get into see; but he's quite busy with his family practice. I pay $100/yr for my family physician for free notes, no charge for missed appointments and phone-call refills at the pharmacy. David can get into his doctor within two days, but he's about to retire and there's a doctor shortage in Windsor-Essex County.

                            The waiting started about a decade ago when the NDP put a cap on how much doctors could earn. Then they started leaving Canada to the States, where they could make more money. Nurses followed.

                            I live in a city of just over 200,000 ... we were reduced to two 'super-hospitals' from four about a decade ago as well. There is one emergency physician available in each hospital; so that's two for the whole city; from the early evening until the morning. Anything requiring a specialty will be called in for consult - there's always someone on call. The rest of the time, there's several clinics at any given location in the city. It costs nothing to go and receive treatment. Some medications may not be covered if you're on government assistance. There was talk in this country of a national pharmaceutical coverage last year ... but I've not heard any more of it. (I'd be in favour of dental coverage).

                            The only problem with waiting - and I'm guilty of this - is not going. You wait until your health problem is really bad before you go and see someone. You may find yourself at home wondering if you really have an emergency as that wait could take 12hrs ... then they may not have a bed to admit you to so you might stay in emerge for a couple of days.

                            It's still better than the American system though. I'd be penniless by now even still working, especially with these pressure sores. I buy medical dressings for them, but am reimbursed by my benefits provider at work for the full cost, less a $10 co-pay per year. I was on homecare, which is a free service funded by our tax dollars, but they deemed me independent enough to change the dressings myself - which was true - so I'm on my own. $2 co-pay for any medications I'm prescribed.

                            Christopher is right - when the shit hits the fan, it works. Unfortunately we are lack for neurologists and other specialities, so if a trauma case comes in, they are sometimes sent to Detroit Receiving Hospital - paid for by OHIP (tax dollars), because we don't have the specialized personnel ... but a border city is different.
                            Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

                            T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

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                              #44
                              What is the coverage like for mental health care in your areas? Is there a limit placed on the number of visits to therapists/psychiatrists? Is there a long wait to get mental therapy if needed? Can you decide on your own that you need it or do you have to be evaluated by a third party?

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                                #45
                                Originally posted by christopher
                                For strep throat, fever, you'd go to a walk-in clinic, wait up to 2 hours to see a doc and get a prescription. For CT/ MRI/ ultrasound it depends on the urgency. 3 to 6 months I'm guessing because I've only had them done in emergency situations. I know that if you don't want to wait, an ultrasound is $125, an MRI around $600 at a private clinic. Something like a hip/knee replacement can take up to a year.

                                MRI's here cost between 900-1400 plus fees for the radiologist if you are a cash pay. The insurance company however pays aprox $450 for the procedure with discount.

                                If my kids are real sick after hours, I can take them to a speciality Urgent Care Center and have a co-pay of $50, the insurance pays the rest. I took a child there once for severe asthma and they deemed it non-emergency (doctor sent us). The insurance refused to cover it because of the diagnostic code. Listed 1st was bronchitis (non-emergency even with 102 fever) and asthma 2nd. It took a year to get coverage. If they had billed as Bronchial asthma, it would have been covered minus the $50.

                                Another time my son had a staph abcess on his knee with red streak going up the leg and swelling. We were sent to Urgent care. We ended up paying 100% because they would not cover the "surgical procedure" of lancing the abcess in the Urgent Care. We would have had to go to a surgeon despite the red streak and swelling.

                                There are waits here too. Boys need school physical and shots to return to school. Called in APril, first appt is Sept 24th. Our doctor has us on a wait list. Insurance says they must be done by primary care doctor, no one else.
                                Our insurance companies spend more time trying not to cover you than covering you.
                                Every day I wake up is a good one

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