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  • I'm In shock!

    There is a new web site that some doctors have put together to keep track of - and publicize the names of - patients who have sued for malpractice: http://doctorsknow.us/index.php

    The apparent purpose of this is to allow doctors to "screen" patients they consider "litigious", ie., someone who has brought a malpractice case. It appears to be a way to intimidate consumers.

    It is interesting that consumers still can not get into the National Practitioner Database, but these doctors can put consumer names on a list somewhere (which we also can't get into).

    I cant tell you how horrid it was for me to be denied care by doctors because of HOW I was hurt!!
    And Even in getting cleared to drive or other issues because I was "red flagged" in my medical files as being 'litigious"

    I didnt understand it at the time..How could they betray a trust EVEN more?? I was devasted and brought to emotional lows by even more lack of honor in a profession I still held regard for.

    PLEASE PLEASE know..this isnt against ALL doctors...It took me a bit of time but I found good ones [img]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/img] HEck it was yet another doc that saved me!
    Not to mention..when I had lost faith in the medical profession Wise and KLD restored my faith.
    This is only commentary on how unjust the medical system CAN be...NOT all doctors!

    To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other
    ..'to be willing to march into hell for a heavenly cause...'

  • #2
    This bothers me. How are they going to use this information? Wise.

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh this is beautiful. Basically a "Car Fax" for patients. Not only does this probably run foul of a number of ethics violations for participating doctors, my guess is that it runs contrary to more than a few state statutes if usedas patient screening. And my argument is that any doctor with a membership to this site is doing so.

      This will also be an incredibly powerful tool for defense attorneys and insurance companies.

      Interesting that thisactivity is going on at thesame time there is litigation to cap malpractice claimsat the feral level in the amount of $250,000.

      That legislation in combination with this type of database and other tactics used by insurance companies will virtually shut down malpractice claims with absolutely no legislation in place to otherwise hold offending physicians accountable for gross negligence and willful misconduct short of a wrongful death suit.

      I'm all for proper legislation and deterrants against frivolous lawsuits, but there is a better way.

      BTW: I'm not a PI attorney . . . but I am a possible patient as is my wife and family. And I sure as heck want to make sure they are protected in the face of a malpractice issue. This is scary.

      What we do in life echoes in eternity. Maximus - Gladiator
      What we do in life echoes in eternity. Maximus - Gladiator

      Comment


      • #4
        Maybe if some of the Dr.'s did not screw up they would not have to worry about it! Dr. Young No offense to you!!! you are Great!

        when I got hurt it was all over the report's about my back pain but I went to a teaching hospital and feel like I was used a a guinea pig. Everyone my family thought was a true Dr. turned out to be student's. I know they have to learn but they shoule have done more test's on me. with the information they had. the only thing I was out of my head with pain! and I don't remember a bit of it, but anyway to show what frame of mind I was in my wife said when they asked me my name I said Mickey Mouse! ha but anyway With all the injurie's I had they never did a MRI they did cat scan's but not far enough. oh my wife was told they had 3 spine specialist's looking at me but they all missed it. It was 2 month's before it was found at another hospital. And No I did not sue
        Thank's for listening
        Duge

        T-12 incomplete 10-3-02

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, Sherry, us consumers should start one up listing doctors who have mal-practiced! [img]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

          Ahhh, but we can't, confidentiality agreements of settlements preclude the patient from ever being allowed to mention the doctors' and hospitals' names involved in the medical mal-practice.

          The doctors are protected, but the medical mal-practice victims are not. [img]/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

          "Together we stand, divided we fall..."

          Comment


          • #6
            They would be inclined to use it to deny services for whatever blabbery reason..."not taking any new patients" "service is full". It is intended by my quick view to identify a high risk for a lawsuit. Easy...just to deny services to the patient than to take a risk. Just another "safeguard" to protect mediocrity. Sherry is right, the good ones are still out there, but more and more...the heart and soul is being sucked right out of health care...we all see it who happen to be patients...I got an education this year, more as a patient than as a practitioner.

            Mary

            If I can see it, then I can do it. If I believe it, there's nothing to it.
            1FineSpineRN

            Comment


            • #7
              hmmmmmmm but what us those that have not sued? i know i have 3 doctors here who are responsible for my moms death. hmmmmmm.....but wouldnt that be libel? legal eagles please advise, i would love to set up a site to call these doctors out.

              Comment


              • #8
                Wise, did you register and do a search? I am wondering if there is information included that would be considered a HIPAA violation (ie, diagnosis, medical procedure performed, etc.)???

                (KLD)
                The SCI-Nurses are advanced practice nurses specializing in SCI/D care. They are available to answer questions, provide education, and make suggestions which you should always discuss with your physician/primary health care provider before implementing. Medical diagnosis is not provided, nor do the SCI-Nurses provide nursing or medical care through their responses on the CareCure forums.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I do not see how they COULD function without violating HIPAA. I deal with HIPAA everyday and anything that shows more than one identifier is considered to be protected information. For example, if I have your name only on a piece of paper on my desk where it can be seen by anyone, that is not a HIPAA violation. No one can specifically identify YOU by only your name. However, if I have your name AND your birthdate on that same paper, that IS a HIPAA violation. Two identifiers listed together are a violation of HIPAA if they are seen by anyone other than me, or those involved with your case. Or your name and address, or name and sex, etc., etc. I don't see how they could successfully identify these patients without violating HIPAA. Just because someone IS a health care provider, doesn't give them the right to your identifying information without YOUR consent. This is an outrage! [img]/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

                  [This message was edited by X on 03-04-04 at 10:50 PM.]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ok, I emailed and asked them about HIPAA compliancy. This is what they said...and such a fast response too....so fast it was almost weird...their reply is first, my email is on the bottom...

                    Subj: Re: Web Site Comments - 03/04/2004 19:03
                    Date: 3/4/04 8:18:08 PM Central Standard Time
                    From: customersupport@doctorsknow.us
                    To: CarolLovesRay@cs.com



                    There is no health care information on this site. Information is obtained
                    only from the public record in court case filings. As you may know, the
                    pubic record is open to inspection without restraint by law or custom.
                    Regards, Dr. Jones


                    > Web Site Comments
                    > =================
                    > Name: Carol
                    > Email: CarolLovesRay@cs.com
                    >
                    > Question/Comments:
                    > Type your comments here ....
                    >
                    >
                    > I would like to know how this service can function without violating HIPAA
                    > regulations before proceeding further with registration. Thank you.

                    [This message was edited by X on 03-04-04 at 10:51 PM.]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [img]/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]So, this is how they do it...because it was a lawsuit, it became public record. okay, I guess it's legal, but it's not ethical....yet again, a reason to lose faith in doctors. [img]/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif[/img]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This bothers me. How are they going to use this information? Wise.
                        Wise, the best I and others have been able to ascertain, it will be to further 'red flag' patients and be able to deny them care. IE Not accept them as a patient. As well as just knowing this site exists could be an intimidation factor. Sad but true.

                        Another way that SOME doctors are further able to avoid accountability, make it the patients fault for suing, not the error/misdoings of the physicians.

                        Among the medical profession, the strength of their wall of silence is unfathomable to the average citizen. And words could never explain its depth and breath until dealing with it themselves.

                        my guess is that it runs contrary to more than a few state statutes if usedas patient screening. And my argument is that any doctor with a membership to this site is doing so.
                        Lar, As unethical as it may be believed, Doctors can and do chose to deny a patient. I was denied three times myself, because of HOW I was hurt. They even went so far as to state it in my records. I have met many med mal victims that the same has happened to. This site, is just making it bit more public and national as to what REALLY does happen to victims.
                        On the third doctor that did this ( this one at Shepherd) I lost it, and rolled myself up to the head of the hospital and chewed some behinds. Had I been injured in any other fashion, there would have been NO issue. Like I am to be blamed because my injury was by a doctor.
                        Also, my medical files indeed were 'red flagged' and I shan't go into the strength and fortitude it took for me to fight those prejudices either. People don't want to know these things, but they do happen. I am not an exception.

                        Interesting that thisactivity is going on at thesame time there is litigation to cap malpractice claimsat the feral level in the amount of $250,000.
                        LOL Don't get me started [img]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/img] but you can see my posts in the political and legislations forums [img]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/img]

                        Maybe if some of the Dr.'s did not screw up they would not have to worry about it! Dr. Young No offense to you!!! you are Great!
                        I agree! But even the human being human, be held accountable for those mistakes, as well as a far less cavalier attitude with peoples lives who HAVE to trust them.

                        Ahhh, but we can't, confidentiality agreements of settlements preclude the patient from ever being allowed to mention the doctors' and hospitals' names involved in the medical mal-practice
                        Not only that, but even filing a case with the medical board can be impossible..Much less being able to have input. Its that wall of silence.
                        However, to understand some of this from the doctors view, the average person seeing and reading medical data /records would not have the 'understanding' if the doctor was truly negligent or if was just an unforeseen outcome etc. I give people credit for a bit more intellect, and loath the hypocrisy that the self imposed god-like power of "some' physicians ethics that dictate what we as patients have a right to see and know, yet they can be privy to all.

                        KLD and X..I would LOVE to learn more of this..please, any input you have.

                        To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other
                        ..'to be willing to march into hell for a heavenly cause...'

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sherry,

                          here's a link.... [img]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]


                          HIPAA

                          this is from my employer's website and can answer some questions. But the HIPAA Online link that is within this link appears to be broken right now.

                          [This message was edited by X on 03-04-04 at 11:11 PM.]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            TY "X"

                            Well I saw this morning it has hit the news, and am told more stories to follow.
                            I am still absolutley heartsick over this mentality, words fail me.

                            Theres a more lenghty article in the NYT, online, you have to register, but its free.

                            I would encourage anyone who has views on this to write to editors, it can make a difference.

                            Letters to the editor may be emailed (please
                            include name, address, and telephone contacts) to
                            letters@nytimes.com or faxed to 212-556-3622 or
                            mailed to

                            Letters to the Editor
                            The New York Times
                            229 W. 43rd St.
                            N.Y., N.Y. 10036-3959



                            http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/05/na...nnl=1&adxnnlx=
                            1078496176-N+LOO2JFlgCHqwu2jw9ldA&pagewanted=print&position=



                            March 5, 2004
                            In Texas, Hire a Lawyer, Forget About a Doctor?

                            By RALPH BLUMENTHAL



                            OUSTON, March 4 - As domestic security director
                            for 16 north Texas counties, Greg Dawson of Fort
                            Worth has many dealings with doctors and
                            hospitals, preparing for a terrorism emergency he
                            hopes will never come.

                            So, Mr. Dawson said, he was stunned this week to
                            find that his name had been added to a
                            little-known Internet database for doctors
                            attacking "litigious behavior." His offense:
                            filing a medical malpractice lawsuit against a
                            Fort Worth hospital and doctor over the death of
                            his 39-year-old wife, whose brain tumor was
                            missed, and winning an undisclosed settlement.

                            For months, an obscure Texas company run by
                            doctors has been operating a Web site, DoctorsKnow
                            Us.com, that compiles and posts the names of
                            plaintiffs, their lawyers and expert witnesses in
                            malpractice lawsuits in Texas and beyond,
                            regardless of the merit of the claim.

                            "You may use the service to assess the risk of
                            offering your services to clients or potential
                            clients," the Web site says.

                            For fees listed as low as $4.95 a month for the
                            first 250 searches and thereafter 2 cents a
                            search, subscribers are invited to search the
                            database "one person at a time or monitor any
                            sized group of individuals for litigious conduct."
                            They can also add names to the database "from
                            official and unofficial public records." Whether
                            that could include a doctor's own files is not clear.

                            "They can sue but they can't hide," says the Web site.

                            A founder of the group, Dr. John S. Jones, a
                            radiologist in Terrell, near Dallas, declined to
                            respond to questions, saying through a lawyer,
                            Vincent A. Bacho, that he had given one newspaper
                            interview and had agreed not to give another
                            before it was published.

                            The sponsors draw no distinctions among cases in
                            what they say is the first effort to use public
                            sources to compile a list of litigants in
                            "predatory lawsuits" that are causing a medical
                            crisis. One couple was put on the list after
                            winning $40.9 million over a botched operation by
                            a drug-dependent surgeon.

                            Mr. Dawson said he recently had trouble finding a
                            doctor for his son and considered it possibly
                            retaliatory. "I thought how amusing, I'm
                            blacklisted," he said.

                            He said he learned he was on the list from Texas
                            Watch, a consumer research and advocacy
                            organization based in Austin.

                            Dan Lambe, executive director of Texas Watch,
                            said: "Medical malpractice patients need more
                            care, not hurdles. It's offensive on different
                            levels."

                            One other doctor besides Dr. Jones, Hoyt Allen, is
                            named on the Web site run by DoctorsKnow.Us, which
                            registered with the State of Texas on Jan. 30,
                            2003. Dr. Allen did not respond to messages left
                            with his medical office in Kaufman, also near
                            Dallas. The group lists an address in Mesquite,
                            Tex., that has no telephone. No one responded to
                            messages sent to the group's e-mail address.

                            The American Medical Association said that it had
                            just learned of the group and that it saw no
                            ethical issues at stake.

                            "There's no question that physicians are totally
                            frustrated by the relentless assault on the
                            medical profession by trial lawyers," said Dr.
                            William G. Plested, chairman of the A.M.A.'s board
                            of trustees and a cardiovascular surgeon in Santa
                            Monica, Calif. Dr. Plested said the government
                            already maintained a database of doctors who had
                            been sued, for use by medical professionals.

                            "Is it fair to come to me if you've sued the last
                            10 physicians you've seen and never collected?" he
                            asked. "Is it fair for me not to know that?"

                            The Texas Medical Association referred questions
                            about the group to its general counsel, Rocky
                            Wilcox, who responded in a short statement: "We
                            are not a part of and, in fact, don't even know
                            who is running this service. The fact that it
                            exists testifies to the continued frustration
                            physicians feel as they try to care for their
                            patients amidst the epidemic of lawsuit abuse."

                            How many people are listed on the Web site or what
                            happens to them when they seek further medical
                            care is not clear.

                            But Mr. Dawson, 42, director of Emergency
                            Preparedness Department for the North Central
                            Texas Council of Governments, said that since last
                            month he had been seeking some minor medical
                            attention for his 18-year-old son and been turned
                            away by half a dozen doctors. They said they had
                            full schedules or rejected his insurance, he said.

                            Among other people listed were Dolores and Ricardo
                            Romero of Humble, Tex. In 1998, Mrs. Romero said,
                            her husband, then 40, went into the hospital to
                            have a herniated disk repaired. The operation went
                            awry and he nearly bled to death on the operating
                            table, suffering serious brain damage. Now, he can
                            barely walk or see and needs help feeding himself
                            and using the toilet.

                            The Romeros's lawsuit revealed that the surgeon,
                            Dr. Merrimon Baker, was addicted to painkillers,
                            had once left a surgical sponge inside a patient,
                            and on other occasions operated on the wrong hip
                            and amputated the wrong leg. The jury, finding
                            that the hospital acted with malice since it knew
                            of the doctor's history, awarded the Romeros $40.9
                            million. A higher court overturned the malice
                            finding and an appeal is pending.

                            Dr. Baker, who is practicing outside Houston, did
                            not respond to a message left with his office.

                            "Well, I think it's ridiculous," Mrs. Romero said
                            of her appearance on the litigants list. "My
                            husband's a victim of a doctor's malpractice -
                            it's not frivolous."

                            A prominent Texas plaintiff's lawyer, Richard W.
                            Mithoff, who represented the family and also
                            turned up on the list, said he was not totally
                            surprised. "I've heard rumors of such lists but
                            I've never seen anything surface until now," Mr.
                            Mithoff said.

                            Another couple listed, Rick and Sheila Beeson of
                            Wichita Falls, Tex., also voiced dismay. Their
                            son, now 7, suffered severe brain damage from
                            untreated low blood sugar at birth. They settled
                            with the hospital and doctors for $9.4 million.

                            "All we did was try to help our son," Mr. Beeson
                            said. "My job as father is to look out for him,
                            his financial security since they took all that
                            away from him. It's not fair to do what we have to
                            do and be put on a blacklist."

                            To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other
                            ..'to be willing to march into hell for a heavenly cause...'

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              There's no question that physicians are totally
                              frustrated by the relentless assault on the
                              medical profession by trial lawyers," said Dr.
                              William G. Plested, chairman of the A.M.A.'s board
                              of trustees and a cardiovascular surgeon in Santa
                              Monica, Calif. Dr. Plested said the government
                              already maintained a database of doctors who had
                              been sued, for use by medical professionals.

                              "Is it fair to come to me if you've sued the last
                              10 physicians you've seen and never collected?" he
                              asked. "Is it fair for me not to know that?"
                              Ohhhh MAN! Now that REALLY did it ! [img]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/img]
                              Seriously, I personally should have expected a comment as such from the AMA.
                              But it utterly destroys me to see these attitudes and LIES (no one has ever filed lawsuit after lawsuit, nor is it the lawyers going after them...) ummm geee, could it be the doctors not treating their patients correctly that causes the lawsuits?
                              Ummm naaaa never [img]/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

                              To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other
                              ..'to be willing to march into hell for a heavenly cause...'

                              Comment

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