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    Another complaint about the handicapped parking permits is that despite the fact that they expire, the old ones seem to continue to be valid! I see parking permits that are so faded and old which continue to be used...
    I think that ticketing people with expired permits would greatly cut down on people using the spaces...Most of those people would not be allowed to renew the permits they are using.


      Geez. Looks like I touched on a sore spot with people. . .

      CJO- I think you missed the post of my post with Stiggy. Don't be so quick to judge unless you have been in other people shoes. I have NO idea what it is like to be a quad. I am sure it sucks. I only know my situation as an incomplete para, and it sucks too!

      Wouldn't we all just like to live life pre-SCI? Yeah sure we would, but we can't. And as far as I am concerned, I just need to focus my own time dealing with my OWN personal shit, cause that is hard enough.

      I agree with JT. When I do have to use my chair, which I admit is not often, I try not to park in the handicap spots. Perhaps someone who has had a stroke, or someone like me who has trouble walking needs it. Cause I know it is easier for me to get where I need to go in a chair rather than lurch around.

      Sheesh!!! I didn't mean to start anything, I just took offense to what was addressed to me earlier in the thread.

      I have pasted below the requirements for getting a placard in WA State below. Sorry. It is long. . . As you can tell, it is VERY subjective. Any suggestions for tightening the restrictions would be appreciated and I will float it to a few legislators.

      Passed Legislature - 2003 Regular Session

      State of Washington 58th Legislature 2003 Regular Session

      By House Committee on Transportation (originally sponsored by
      Representatives Clibborn, Ericksen, Murray, Cooper, Morrell, Simpson,
      Armstrong, Rockefeller, Jarrett, Schindler, Mielke, Anderson, Wallace,
      Nixon, Shabro and Schual-Berke)

      READ FIRST TIME 3/10/03.

      Providing for determination of disability for special parking privileges by
      advanced registered nurse practitioners.
      AN ACT Relating to determination of disability for special parking
      privileges by advanced registered nurse practitioners+ADs- and amending RCW


      1. Sec. RCW 46.16.381 and 2002 c 175 s 33 are each amended to
      read as follows:

      (1) The director shall grant special parking privileges to any
      person who has a disability that limits or impairs the ability to walk and
      meets one of the following criteria, as determined by a licensed physician
      or an advanced registered nurse practitioner licensed under chapter 18.79
      (a) Cannot walk two hundred feet without stopping to rest+ADs-
      (b) Is severely limited in ability to walk due to arthritic,
      neurological, or orthopedic condition+ADs-
      (c) Is so severely disabled, that the person cannot walk without the
      use of or assistance from a brace, cane, another person, prosthetic device,
      wheelchair, or other assistive device+ADs-
      (d) Uses portable oxygen+ADs-
      (e) Is restricted by lung disease to such an extent that forced
      expiratory respiratory volume, when measured by spirometry is less than one
      liter per second or the arterial oxygen tension is less than sixty mm/hg on
      room air at rest+ADs-
      (f) Impairment by cardiovascular disease or cardiac condition to the
      extent that the person's functional limitations are classified as class III
      or IV under standards accepted by the American Heart Association+ADs- or
      (g) Has a disability resulting from an acute sensitivity to
      automobile emissions which limits or impairs the ability to walk. The
      personal physician or advanced registered nurse practitioner of the
      applicant shall document that the disability is comparable in severity to
      the others listed in this subsection.
      (2) The applications for disabled parking permits and temporary
      disabled parking permits are official state documents. Knowingly providing
      false information in conjunction with the application is a gross misdemeanor
      punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW. The following statement must appear on
      each application form immediately below the physician's or advanced
      registered nurse practitioner's signature and immediately below the
      applicant's signature: +ACI-A disabled parking permit may be issued only for a
      medical necessity that severely affects mobility (RCW 46.16.381). Knowingly
      providing false information on this application is a gross misdemeanor. The
      penalty is up to one year in jail and a fine of up to +ACQ-5,000 or both.+ACI-
      (3) Persons who qualify for special parking privileges are entitled
      to receive from the department of licensing a removable windshield placard
      bearing the international symbol of access and an individual serial number,
      along with a special identification card bearing the name and date of birth
      of the person to whom the placard is issued, and the placard's serial
      number. The special identification card shall be issued no later than
      January 1, 2000, to all persons who are issued parking placards, including
      those issued for temporary disabilities, and special disabled parking
      license plates. The department shall design the placard to be displayed
      when the vehicle is parked by suspending it from the rearview mirror, or in
      the absence of a rearview mirror the card may be displayed on the dashboard
      of any vehicle used to transport the disabled person. Instead of regular
      motor vehicle license plates, disabled persons are entitled to receive
      special license plates bearing the international symbol of access for one
      vehicle registered in the disabled person's name. Disabled persons who are
      not issued the special license plates are entitled to receive a second
      special placard upon submitting a written request to the department.
      Persons who have been issued the parking privileges and who are using a
      vehicle or are riding in a vehicle displaying the special license plates or
      placard may park in places reserved for mobility disabled persons. The
      director shall adopt rules providing for the issuance of special placards
      and license plates to public transportation authorities, nursing homes
      licensed under chapter 18.51 RCW, boarding homes licensed under chapter
      18.20 RCW, senior citizen centers, private nonprofit agencies as defined in
      chapter 24.03 RCW, and vehicles registered with the department as cabulances
      that regularly transport disabled persons who have been determined eligible
      for special parking privileges provided under this section. The director
      may issue special license plates for a vehicle registered in the name of the
      public transportation authority, nursing home, boarding homes, senior
      citizen center, private nonprofit agency, or cabulance service if the
      vehicle is primarily used to transport persons with disabilities described
      in this section. Public transportation authorities, nursing homes, boarding
      homes, senior citizen centers, private nonprofit agencies, and cabulance
      services are responsible for insuring that the special placards and license
      plates are not used improperly and are responsible for all fines and
      penalties for improper use.
      (4) Whenever the disabled person transfers or assigns his or her
      interest in the vehicle, the special license plates shall be removed from
      the motor vehicle. If another vehicle is acquired by the disabled person
      and the vehicle owner qualifies for a special plate, the plate shall be
      attached to the vehicle, and the director shall be immediately notified of
      the transfer of the plate. If another vehicle is not acquired by the
      disabled person, the removed plate shall be immediately surrendered to the
      (5) The special license plate shall be renewed in the same manner
      and at the time required for the renewal of regular motor vehicle license
      plates under this chapter. No special license plate may be issued to a
      person who is temporarily disabled. A person who has a condition expected
      to improve within six months may be issued a temporary placard for a period
      not to exceed six months. If the condition exists after six months a new
      temporary placard shall be issued upon receipt of a new certification from
      the disabled person's physician. The permanent parking placard and
      identification card of a disabled person shall be renewed at least every
      five years, as required by the director, by satisfactory proof of the right
      to continued use of the privileges. In the event of the permit holder's
      death, the parking placard and identification card must be immediately
      surrendered to the department. The department shall match and purge its
      disabled permit data base with available death record information at least
      every twelve months.
      (6) Each person who has been issued a permanent disabled parking
      permit on or before July 1, 1998, must renew the permit no later than July
      1, 2003, subject to a schedule to be set by the department, or the permit
      will expire.
      (7) Additional fees shall not be charged for the issuance of the
      special placards or the identification cards. No additional fee may be
      charged for the issuance of the special license plates except the regular
      motor vehicle registration fee and any other fees and taxes required to be
      paid upon registration of a motor vehicle.
      (8) Any unauthorized use of the special placard, special license
      plate, or identification card is a traffic infraction with a monetary
      penalty of two hundred fifty dollars.
      (9) It is a parking infraction, with a monetary penalty of two
      hundred fifty dollars for a person to make inaccessible the access aisle
      located next to a space reserved for physically disabled persons. The clerk
      of the court shall report all violations related to this subsection to the
      (10) It is a parking infraction, with a monetary penalty of two
      hundred fifty dollars for any person to park a vehicle in a parking place
      provided on private property without charge or on public property reserved
      for physically disabled persons without a special license plate or placard.
      If a person is charged with a violation, the person shall not be determined
      to have committed an infraction if the person produces in court or before
      the court appearance the special license plate or placard required under
      this section. A local jurisdiction providing nonmetered, on-street parking
      places reserved for physically disabled persons may impose by ordinance time
      restrictions of no less than four hours on the use of these parking places.
      A local jurisdiction may impose by ordinance time restrictions of no less
      than four hours on the use of nonreserved, on-street parking spaces by
      vehicles displaying the special parking placards. All time restrictions
      must be clearly posted.
      (11) The penalties imposed under subsections (9) and (10) of this
      section shall be used by that local jurisdiction exclusively for law
      enforcement. The court may also impose an additional penalty sufficient to
      reimburse the local jurisdiction for any costs it may have incurred in
      removal and storage of the improperly parked vehicle.
      (12) Except as provided by subsection (2) of this section, it is a
      traffic infraction with a monetary penalty of two hundred fifty dollars for
      any person willfully to obtain a special license plate, placard, or
      identification card in a manner other than that established under this
      (13)(a) A law enforcement agency authorized to enforce parking laws
      may appoint volunteers, with a limited commission, to issue notices of
      infractions for violations of this section or RCW 46.61.581. Volunteers
      must be at least twenty-one years of age. The law enforcement agency
      appointing volunteers may establish any other qualifications the agency
      deems desirable.
      (b) An agency appointing volunteers under this section must provide
      training to the volunteers before authorizing them to issue notices of
      (c) A notice of infraction issued by a volunteer appointed under
      this subsection has the same force and effect as a notice of infraction
      issued by a police officer for the same offense.
      (d) A police officer or a volunteer may request a person to show the
      person's identification card or special parking placard when investigating
      the possibility of a violation of this section. If the request is refused,
      the person in charge of the vehicle may be issued a notice of infraction for
      a violation of this section.
      (14) For second or subsequent violations of this section, in
      addition to a monetary fine, the violator must complete a minimum of forty
      hours of:
      (a) Community restitution for a nonprofit organization that serves
      the disabled community or persons having disabling diseases+ADs- or
      (b) Any other community restitution that may sensitize the violator
      to the needs and obstacles faced by persons who have disabilities.
      (15) The court may not suspend more than one-half of any fine
      imposed under subsection (8), (9), (10), or (12) of this section.
      Passed by the House March 14, 2003.
      Passed by the Senate April 17, 2003.
      Approved by the Governor May 20, 2003.
      Filed in Office of Secretary of State May 20, 2003.


        The other day I was sitting in my van at the wal-mart parking lot an I was in one of the 4 handicap spots for vans and a lady parked her car vertical and not horizontal.As she walked by I shouted to her asking why she parked like she did and why did she park in a spot for vans.
        She walked back and said..I left room for another car to park so whats the problem.
        I just lost it after she said that!!

        "The Meaning of things lies not in things themselves,but in our attitude towards them"
        "The Meaning of things lies not in things themselves,but in our attitude towards them"


          handicap placards can be purchased... guess where?...

          At the local flee market. For $5.

          All this agonizing over handicap tags and especially placards is a beaten horse. For the people who see the parking spots as wasted or waiting oppotunity for convenient parking, they will find a way to abuse the system. For the 'mentally handicapped"... those people who see themselves in the gray area of being handicapped enough to deserve convenient parking... there is no avoiding them. If someone has a limp, they qualify. Old injury and old placard that goes with it.. they qualify. If they have an infirmed relative and the associated placard to display, they qualify. Matters not if grandma is traveling that day.

          And worst of all, there are the apologists, especially the able bodied, who are always present to remind whining wheelers that other people deserve convenient parking such as the aging grandmother.

          The cops only care if the city revenue is adversely affected by placard abuse. Happened in Houston in 1998 when the local airport determined that placards were costing them $800,000 a year. Otherwise, there is not an abundance of the law correcting the perceived abuse of the system.

          I am getting up enough courage to use the valve stem wrench that a friend purchased for me (as a joke?) to correct the wrongs of the gray-area parkers. Especially the ones in the gridded area



            Wow! Y'all have got your shorts in wads over this issue. I am attemptaing to change the handicap parking law in North Carolina. My admendmet would be to establish parking spaces large enough to accommodate a van, truck or car in which the driver or passenger is in a wheelchair and needs to leave the vehicle. Those parking spaces would be designated for wheelchair users, only. It's simple, clean and easy for the state to accomplish. Those of us that need the extra room would not use the "regular" handicap spaces because they lack the room for us to get out of our vehicles. I don't see any argument in this. What say you guys?
            You C.A.N.
            Conquer Adversity Now


              Topspin, this sounds like a great story for a local news organization (TV station, newspaper, etc.). If the police will not enforce the law (in most states this is illegal), then maybe they and the flea market owner need to be shamed into compliance. If they were selling crack or machine guns you bet the police would do something about it!!!

              (call your city council person as well).

              The SCI-Nurses are advanced practice nurses specializing in SCI/D care. They are available to answer questions, provide education, and make suggestions which you should always discuss with your physician/primary health care provider before implementing. Medical diagnosis is not provided, nor do the SCI-Nurses provide nursing or medical care through their responses on the CareCure forums.


                "I think the whole system needs to be revamped.
                I agree, Lewis. I see flagrant violations of disabled parking everyday.
                The cops don't do anything, at least the two times I called they didn't. The persons had left by the time the cops arrived, but I gave them the license numbers, but like I said, they didn't do anything.
                The only way to stop everybody having a disabled placard is to hold the dispensers of placards (doctors) responsible. They now hand out placards to darn near anybody who asks for one. That's how it looks like to me from my observations over the last 17 years.
                New legislation making doctors criminally liable for issuing placards to those who don't actually need them is what is needed, im my opinion. A nice, big, fat hefty fine would go a long way in preventing this behaviour.
                Getting old doesn't warrant a handicapped placard, unless said person has a disability preventing him from walking long distances, etc. But many older people I see have a placard, and many not so old, too, whether they need one or not.
                Hold the doctors responsible, and they'll quit handing out disabled placards to everybody and anybody.
                Please donate a dollar a day at
                Copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature.



                  Thats right..Put your disabled placard in your window and walk around wal-mart for a few hours!
                  Maybe someday they will be in a wc and try to park there van in a hc spot to only find out a scab parked his/her car in hc spot for vans.
                  Only a thoughtless dork would do just this! Duke


                    This topic has been very interesting and has hit many nerves. When I was first injured I wanted some large object to fall out of the sky and smash any illegally parked cars in the handicapped parking spaces. Then I moved on to wanting to scratch the paint, let the air out of tires, or put a really big stickers that said "I'm an ass for parking in this spot" of illegally parked cars (something I would never really do). I actually played a game for a while where I would park closely behind and perpendicular to someone who was parked illegally so they couldn't get out of the car until I moved (that was always fun especially when the person was sitting in the car waiting for someone in the store).

                    I think I tend to handle it more like Bethany did nowadays or just look at the person and shake my head hoping they will maybe get the point. The one time that really upset me was when someone in a Mercedes Benz parked in the dead space (yellow area) in the handicapped space. I had to pull a little close to them (passenger side) to open my driver side door. Well I guess they didn't like that I pulled so and put a huge scratch in my car (the car was less than 3 months old).

                    Does anybody remember the stores that use to have special parking for pregnant woman - the sign had a stork carrying a baby on it (I'm not joking)?



                      Went to wal-mart today and 4 cars were parked where 2 vans should be parked,not cars.As I was driving by a lady walked to her car where she should`nt be parked and I told her to read the sign and she replyed.."I can read Ass Hole"
                      I couldnt believe she called me that. Stiggy

                      "The Meaning of things lies not in things themselves,but in our attitude towards them"
                      "The Meaning of things lies not in things themselves,but in our attitude towards them"


                        I am confused about why the larger spaces are designated van only, as opposed to wheelchair only. My husband needs the wider space whether he is alone or with someone in order to open his door all the way to accomodate his wheelchair. Opening a 2 door car takes lots of space. I am feeling a bit grumpy on this subject. We just returned from a weekend away, attended a high school football game out of town and stayed in a hotel. It is always a nightmare, no matter how early we arrive at any sports event trying to park. When I cannot find a designated space (everytime) I double park while unloading the chair and hubby, you should hear the vocal and horn opposition! Then I have the chore of going off to a remote spot to park, walk back by myself and then do it all over again at the end of the night in horrendous traffic. I dread it, cause no matter how much I self talk, it makes me extremely angry. On the flip side, on the very rare occassion that I find a handicap spot and park in it because our return to the car would be manageable, I sometimes get negative comments about the fact that I am clearly not in need of the spot for myself.


                          They way I understand it they are designated "van accessable" not "van only" parking. I see lots of parking lots that only have "van accessable" spots.

                          Learn from the mistakes of others, you won't live long enough to make all of them yourself.
                          Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself.


                            There is a program at our local mall where people WALK laps around the place for therapy of differant sorts.guess where they all park? How stupid is that? I talked to the director awhile back and she said there was nothing she could do as long as they has the permit to park.

                            "Yesterday's History,Tomorrow's a Mystery"
                            "Yesterday's History,Tomorrow's a Mystery"


                              I meant handicap accessible van only. Sorry for the confusion.