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    #16
    I feel you........ I bang my head against the wall for relief.

    Originally posted by Sue Pendleton View Post
    NW-WILL, it wasn't so much that the mall was a corporation but that the actual municipal area is a corporation within a county. If vandals tore apart a tot lot on the "Association" trails the county police needed corporate ok to prosecute. This became an issue the last few years we lived there. About the only true over lap was county property taxes. But then we paid an extra assessment that was not deductible on a federal income tax for extras like trails, parks, pools, and supporting the village center halls plus extra snow removal and lighting. This is above any HOA or condo fees many paid. Then the added cost for a membership that included all amenities such as the pools, tennis courts, gyms and certain reservable park areas. You could also buy a pools only membership. Any business outside the corporation but bordering it could easily call and did the police for HP parking violations. I also had no problem with either our county or the state in getting an intersection near are old house made completely accessible because none of it was considered corporate. But get a home owner to trim his shrubs because I couldn't get past them on the association sidewalk and I got a note that a ride by deemed them within code. I wrote back to invite the advisory board from my village to tour the neighborhood with me and got no answer. By then we knew we were moving so at least the next person only has one group to deal with.

    Comment


      #17
      Interesting Reading:
      Federal Law on Parking Privileges for
      Persons with Disabilities
      Carol Toland, Legislative Attorney
      American Law Division
      Summary
      http://congressionalresearch.com/RS2...h+Disabilities

      UNIFORM SYSTEM FOR PARKING FOR PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES (adopted by many, but not all states)
      http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/legsregs/dir...pg/cfr1235.htm

      This site goes a long way in describing handicapped parking regulations state by state, NW-Will.
      http://www.fiadisabledtravellers.com...of_america.htm

      All the best,
      GJ

      Comment


        #18
        Thanks.

        Just took a quick look at http://www.fiadisabledtravellers.com...ica/oregon.htm as I am becoming a little too familiar with Portland Oregon rules, these rules do not hold for Portland. There are designated city street wheelchair only marked parking spaces. If you park there with an out of state disabled parking placard that does not designate you as a wheel chair user you will be ticketed. If you're using an out of state placard which doesn't designate you as a wheelchair user at a metered parking spot, you have to pay, just like everyone else (If it's a spot that allows for longer than half an hour and you pay for the full time(eg. max hour spot), you can park for 3 hours).



        Originally posted by gjnl View Post
        Interesting Reading:
        Federal Law on Parking Privileges for
        Persons with Disabilities
        Carol Toland, Legislative Attorney
        American Law Division
        Summary
        http://congressionalresearch.com/RS2...h+Disabilities

        UNIFORM SYSTEM FOR PARKING FOR PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES (adopted by many, but not all states)
        http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/legsregs/dir...pg/cfr1235.htm

        This site goes a long way in describing handicapped parking regulations state by state, NW-Will.
        http://www.fiadisabledtravellers.com...of_america.htm

        All the best,
        GJ

        Comment


          #19
          Still poking around this subject.

          So far I only know of two states that have distinguishing handicapped parking placards, Oregon and Illinois.

          Looking at the applications for both states is a kind of interesting.

          http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/pu...ions/vsd62.pdf

          http://www.odot.state.or.us/forms/dmv/265fill.pdf

          Turns out the Illinois placard isn't Wheelchair only, but "Meter-Exempt" disabled parking placard. Talk about adding confusion to the mix.


          For Oregon, the form has two boxes Wheelchair and Non-Wheelchair. That a physician then signs.

          Eligibility requirements and additional information:

          Physicians who are authorized to sign the certificate are: Doctors of Medicine, Osteopaths, Podiatrists,
          Chiropractors, Naturopaths, certified Nurse Practitioners and certified Physician Assistants, and licensed
          optometrists.

          801.387 ?Person with a disability.? (1) A person who has severely limited mobility because of paralysis
          or the loss of use of some or all of the person's legs or arms; (2) A person who is affected by loss of vision
          or substantial loss of visual acuity or visual field beyond correction; or (3) A person who has any other
          disability that prevents the person from walking without the use of an assistive device or that causes the
          person to be unable to walk more than 200 feet, including but not necessarily limited to: Chronic heart
          condition; Emphysema; Arthritis; Rheumatism; or Ulcerative colitis or related chronic bowel disorder.

          Wheelchair user disabled person parking permit: A person with a disability, as defined in ORS 801.387,
          and uses a wheelchair or similar low-powered or mechanically propelled vehicle.
          http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/801.387
          801.387
          Person with a disability

          Person with a disability means:


          (1)
          A person who has severely limited mobility because of paralysis or the loss of use of some or all of the persons legs or arms;


          (2)
          A person who is affected by loss of vision or substantial loss of visual acuity or visual field beyond correction; or


          (3)
          A person who has any other disability that prevents the person from walking without the use of an assistive device or that causes the person to be unable to walk more than 200 feet, including but not necessarily limited to:

          (a)Chronic heart condition;
          (b)Emphysema;
          (c)Arthritis;
          (d)Rheumatism; or
          (e)Ulcerative colitis or related chronic bowel disorder. [Formerly 801.235]

          So being a little cynical I know, but no where in the Oregon code does it really define why you would really need a Wheelchair that would allow you to have a wheelchair placard. If you own a wheelchair and use it anytime throughout the year check the box and have the doctor sign the form, you get the wheelchair placard over the regular disabled placard!!!!!!!

          If they're going to go with a Wheelchair only placard, they could at least go with "If you can not get from your vehicle to five feet away from your vehicle without a wheelchair don't even think about checking this box!"
          I'm sure there is a better way of phrasing this.

          So I telephoned Oregon DMV, and spoke to half a dozen people, it's really amusing, one lady was very adamant you have to be in a wheelchair 95% of the time! Of course nowhere is this documented and after being pushed further up the chain it transpires this is not the case and in fact as long as you can get a doctor to sign the form you get the Wheelchair Only placard. There is not any documentation to assist the doctor except for the definition of what Oregon defines as disabled, so by the letter of the law if you ever have to use a wheelchair the doctor is legitimately able to sign off the Oregon form for the Wheelchair Only placard. And that was from the Oregon DMV disabled driving program department!
          So basically a whole layer of confusion for everyone, that really doesn't seem to accomplish that much!

          Interesting when compared to the Illinois application form!
          From page 2, the criteria for the "Meter-Exempt parking"
          The patient cannot manage, manipulate, or insert coins, or obtain tickets or tokens in parking meters or ticket machines in parking lots due to the lack of fine motor control of BOTH hands.
          The patient cannot reach above his/her head to a height of 42 inches from the ground due to a lack of finger, hand or upper-extremity strength or mobility.
          The patient cannot approach a parking meter due to his/her use of a wheelchair or other device for mobility.
          The patient cannot walk more than 20 feet due to an orthopedic, neurological, cardiovascular or lung condition in which the degree of debilitation is so severe that it almost completely impedes the ability to walk.
          Their colorful placards !
          http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/pu...ons/vsd574.pdf

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by NW-Will View Post
            So I telephoned Oregon DMV, and spoke to half a dozen people, it's really amusing, one lady was very adamant you have to be in a wheelchair 95% of the time! Of course nowhere is this documented and after being pushed further up the chain it transpires this is not the case and in fact as long as you can get a doctor to sign the form you get the Wheelchair Only placard. There is not any documentation to assist the doctor except for the definition of what Oregon defines as disabled, so by the letter of the law if you ever have to use a wheelchair the doctor is legitimately able to sign off the Oregon form for the Wheelchair Only placard. And that was from the Oregon DMV disabled driving program department!
            Its stuff like this which is why I think education is a big part of the answer. Things need to be more clear, Drs need to understand things better and not sign off on every parking application thats handed to them, those who are applying for a disabled placard need to be educated on proper use of it... Id really like to see people pass a test of some sort before being given the placard, like a quick exam of the laws around using parking placards. I'm not even talking about anything difficult but super simple stuff like ITS ILLEGAL TO PARK IN THE CROSSHATCHING ASSHOLES. Even better would be being required to read and answer questions on disabled parking ettiquette, like its really fucking insensitive to park halfway across the crosshatching because you are too lazy to use a different space or back into the space to have the crosshatching on the side you need it, thereby blocking the person who parked correctly next to the crosshatching on the other side from being able to get back in to their vehicle. (actually it would be nice if it was also illegal to park halfway into the crosshatching, but I'm not familiar with it being like that anywhere.)

            I'd also really like to see the jackass motorcycle drivers who think disabled crosshatching is THEIR parking be towed. I always inform them politely that its illegal, one person even so much as told me he'd discussed it with a police officer and been told it was perfectly fine. The sad part is he probably did. The police need to be educated as well. When people seem resistant to my politeness, I add in that some people will deploy their wheelchair ramps down on top of a motorcycle when its in the way and they really don't want to get their bike messed up. I don't know if anyone has ever done so, but I feel a bit of scare tactics doesn't hurt. Repeat offenders who I see locally I take photos of. Or used to, got burned out. I was going to start some sort of "shame on you indianapolis" blog with all the photos. And I'd take photos of cars parked illegally without anyone in them, or if there was just a passenger inside sometimes. I've gotten into arguments that way which can be scary, but I've also equally scared some people off that way and saw them leave quickly after.
            Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

            I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

            Comment


              #21
              Everybody and their mothers have placards in AZ. They pass 'em out like candy on Halloween here. I can rarely find an available space and once inside an establishment I can rarely find anyone using a chair. I think it's a great idea to have special placards for wheelchair users only.

              rick
              GO! Mobility Solutions
              rick@GoesAnywhere.com
              Rick Goldstein
              GO! Mobility Solutions
              facebook.com/goes.anywhere

              Comment


                #22
                I like the idea, but it would be nice to frame the statute in a more rounded less ambiguous manner.
                Seriously thinking about trying to see what is involved in getting this instituted.

                In the mean time looking to hear which states have different two kinds of placards.
                So let me know what state you're in and whether your state just uses one placard for everyone or has some kind of duel system.

                So far I'm at ...

                State - How many Placards in operation - what characteristics pertain to second placard

                IL - 2 - meter exempt
                OR - 2 - WheelChair only
                WA - 1


                Only 47 to go

                Comment


                  #23
                  California
                  http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs%2Fbrochur...cts/ffvr07.htm

                  • Permanent parking placard for permanent disabilities. Valid for two years and expires on June 30 of every odd-numbered year.
                  • Temporary parking placard for temporary disabilities. Valid for up to 180 days (six months) or the date noted by your qualifying licensed medical professional on the application, whichever time frame is less and cannot be renewed more than six times consecutively.
                  • Travel parking placard for California residents who currently have a permanent DP parking placard or DP or DV license plates. Valid for 30 days from the date DMV issues it. (You can have only one placard. This placard give you a second one on a temporary basis, i.e., park you van in an airport car park while you fly to a different part of the state to vacation and want to be able to use handicapped parking in your vacation location).
                  • Travel parking placard for nonresidents who plan to travel in California and have a permanent disability and/or DV plates. Valid for up to 90 days or the date noted by your licensed medical professional on the application, whichever time frame is less.
                  • License Plates for permanent disabilities. Registration and license fees paid annually.
                  Last edited by gjnl; 24 Jul 2014, 11:47 AM.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Indiana has one type of disabled placard not including the temporary one. Or at least as far as I'm aware, since when I renewed my placard I was given the "does not expire" placard I wonder if all the ones with expiration dates are just from before the switch, or if there may be another type of placard. But there is definitely not a wheelchair only placard.

                    I'm personally against a division such as "wheelchair only" placard, but would like to see stricter laws surrounding who gets and needs a placard. I have heard suggestions for extra wheelchair parking at the back of a lot, where the space for ramps etc for powerchairs would be available and people would not be trapped and would definitely support that, however knowing it would not be applicable for all powerchair users.

                    As someone with a disability that is progressive and so I didn't go from able bodied to wheelchair, and with some ability to walk still I'm quite aware of the fact I'm not the only person that is much LESS disabled in my wheelchair than walking. I have different needs, if I'm walking the proximity to the store is my main priority for the shortest distance to be able to get in and into a store scooter. If I'm in my wheelchair, I can handle further distance however need to keep in mind space to unload and reload my chair, if the parking lot is uphill to the entrance of the store etc. Once I get my power assist device my needs will change yet again, where distance and uphill is no longer an issue but not being hit by a car unseen still is as well as weather due to heat and my heart condition. I'm only an example of one single person with changing needs due to my disability, and not even taking into consideration here the way my abilities fluctuate from day to day. It would be impossible to divide up parking for everyone based on needs, and I not only don't believe but know from personal experience that just using a wheelchair doesn't make someone more disabled than the next individual. There are plenty of people here with SCI and incomplete injuries that are able to walk with bracing and crutches, not using chairs at all or only using chairs part time. In some of these cases it has nothing to do with ability, and the individual would have more ability in a wheelchair but chooses not to.

                    Again its merely my opinion, but I don't think splitting up the disabled community is the answer but drawing the line thickly and legally between those who need placards and those who do not. And getting the placards out of the hands of those who have weedled them from Drs, stolen them, borrowed them, etc as well as stiff penalties (ENFORCED) for those who do not even have a placard. I think it was an instagram photo, but recently saw online a photo of a vehicle with no placard and a wheelchair wheel sitting on the dash and the caption said how a spare wheelchair wheel worked in place of the disabled placard. It was most likely a joke but really bothered me. As has already been pointed out, anyone could buy and use a wheelchair if they wanted to. In fact we already see this sort of abuse at airports and theme parks where people rent or bring wheelchairs that they don't need just to access disabled benefits. Just being in a wheelchair alone doesn't make someone more disabled. We have everything from those with temporary injuries or relapsing and remitting symptoms such as MS to severe heart and lung disorders to quadriplegics all in manual chairs. The needs are so vastly different.
                    Last edited by ~Lin; 23 Jul 2014, 11:16 PM.
                    Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

                    I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      http://showyou.com/v/y-FOKKPJzr-4w/b...aign=app+share

                      This is the last word on this debate; hard-hitting, graphic and really nails the point. Enjoy....

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Yes! A "powerful point" he made! Hilarious!

                        All the best,
                        GJ

                        Comment


                          #27
                          And they wonder how they lost Suez.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Oh god. Thats awful. And I'm shocked that the woman thinks its ok for him to use his wifes badge just because he's shopping for her. That makes no sense... HE doesn't need it to shop, SHE does, so if he is shopping for her... Its not needed, because she isn't with him!

                            But no, its all about the biscuit. Not the parking. You can only get the biscuit there, so whatever it takes to get the biscuit! (prime example of the selfishness)
                            Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

                            I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by NW-Will View Post
                              And they wonder how they lost Suez.
                              An interview like this could have taken place (and probably does daily) on almost any call in talk show in America. The British don't hold a monopoly on the sometimes inane, pointless, babble heard on talk radio. I'm not trying to pick a fight or put you down, just wanted to make that point in response.

                              All the best,
                              GJ

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by gjnl View Post
                                An interview like this could have taken place (and probably does daily) on almost any call in talk show in America. The British don't hold a monopoly on the sometimes inane, pointless, babble heard on talk radio. I'm not trying to pick a fight or put you down, just wanted to make that point in response.

                                All the best,
                                GJ
                                But GJ, it's the minty one...
                                Don - Grad Student Emeritus
                                T3 ASIA A 27 years post injury

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