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how many really think they deserved this injury or benefitted by it?

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    Originally posted by Daleb
    chick - your post reads an awful lot like a lecture regarding your opinion of the pointlessness of lecturing people about their opinions on the internet. more than a little disingenuous, IMO. argumentum ad hominem tu quoque.
    I said:
    What's the point of all the lecturing and arguing over how someone ELSE feels about their injury and situation??

    and, on what imight may feel and believe at the moment, of course some disagree, but is his perspective any less valid or legitimate? Disagreeing, and sharing you're own experiences and evolving thoughts about your own injury (some who've admittedly taken years to get to that place) is one thing, but imposing that onto him (or others) as if anything other than any 'insight' you've gained is ignorant and wrong, is no less ignorant or lacking in perspective, especially when he hasn't been imposing his own feeling/beliefs onto others.
    So, my comment was not simply about differring opinions, or even lecturing or arguing over those opinions.

    Also, I didn't discount anything you just stated here:
    Originally posted by Daleb


    the point is to share ideas and thoughts and opinions and beliefs on the 'deservedness' and 'helpfulness' (or lack there of ) of SCI, as on topic to the OP as is possible. dialogue between sentients being an organic process, it evolves in a direction based on the will of the participants.

    we've all had the pleasure of conversing with folks AROUND THE WORLD on this topic.

    i know of no where else this opportunity exists.

    as with any conversation it is ripe with individuality and should be embraced, IMO.

    is there room in your mind to consider that imight's 'evolution', as you have noted it, may have something to do with his involvement within this community? should he be ignored? it seems to me like folks genuinely care about his feelings and are sadden to hear of his lack of hope, in his words, live a 'ruined life'. (imight - sorry to speak of you as if you weren't in the room, this is just an illustration of a point, not personal.)
    Sorry, but your post doesn't really have any bearing on what's contained in my post.

    Maybe it's just a lecture on my lecture? Hopefully, you're not more than a little disingenuous, if you remain consistent in what you posted.
    Last edited by chick; 10 Sep 2008, 2:30 PM.

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      My opinion ....only gaga[senility]people can be happy because they broke their neck......period.

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        Originally posted by chick
        What's the point of all the lecturing and arguing over how someone ELSE feels about their injury and situation??
        Thank you. Clearly, all people have different opinions on lots of things, so why must everyone who is disabled be in one accord that living their life in such a condition is totally worthwhile? This is bullshit. Not everyone who gets injured has kids to live for, million dollar settlements, or have the fucking happy gene.

        How often have we seen people on here talk about losing their significant other or spouse because he or she was injured? If the person in love with you can't handle it, why must we put pressure on actual one injured to endure it? I don't judge either way.

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          Originally posted by chick
          I said:
          So, my comment was not simply about differring opinions, or even lecturing or arguing over those opinions.

          Also, I didn't discount anything you just stated here: Sorry, but your post doesn't really have any bearing on what's contained in my post.

          Maybe it's just a lecture on my lecture? Hopefully, you're not more than a little disingenuous, if you remain consistent in what you posted.

          LOL - touche!! i took your post personal, indicating i must worry subconsciously about being too preachy...but i'm so passionate about the process of dialogue, and about the topic of coping, it's hard to keep my big mouth shut! Sorry to have let my insecurities come out near you.

          It more than a little good...it's ALL good!

          Also, I read a lot of your sentiment in the preceding posts, from most of the respondents, albeit a few seem to have not learned the lesson in kindergarten about not having anything nice to say...

          The pre-pubescent banter, as of late, has grown a bit tiresome, hasn't it?

          (attention: Leif, Juke_spin - yes i was referring to you 2.)

          You guys are acting like a couple of

          Can't we all just get along?
          Last edited by Oddity; 10 Sep 2008, 3:34 PM.
          "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

          "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

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            ^ The pre-pubescent banter, as of late, has grown a bit tiresome, hasn't it?

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              Originally posted by Le Type Fran├žais
              ...or have the fucking happy gene.
              You bitch!!!

              Chris.
              Have you ever seen a human heart? It looks like a fist wrapped in blood! Larry in 'Closer', a play by Partick Marber

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                Ya know kid, a lot of ppl have said a lota things about lots of stuff and ppl in this thread -but only you have had the gaul to call Leif and I pre-pubescent and tell us to STFU. The bad news is that you've shown your ass here while the good is that Cass posted this and has made plain that its rambling and diverse (not to say divisive) development is more than fine with her. And BTW, I'm real partial to the process of debate as well.

                Your sanctimonious little eyes are offended by the dialogue between Leif and I? Put one of both of us on Ignore; leave the thread (I suspect it can struggle on w/o you); apply some of the eastern bs meditation you claim to live by or grit your teeth and live with it.

                Originally posted by Daleb
                The pre-pubescent banter, as of late, has grown a bit tiresome, hasn't it?

                (attention: Leif, Juke_spin - yes i was referring to you 2.)

                You guys are acting like a couple of

                Kindly
                "The world will not perish for want of wonders but for want of wonder."
                J.B.S.Haldane

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                  Originally posted by Le Type Fran├žais
                  Thank you. Clearly, all people have different opinions on lots of things, so why must everyone who is disabled be in one accord that living their life in such a condition is totally worthwhile? This is bullshit. Not everyone who gets injured has kids to live for, million dollar settlements, or have the fucking happy gene.

                  How often have we seen people on here talk about losing their significant other or spouse because he or she was injured? If the person in love with you can't handle it, why must we put pressure on actual one injured to endure it? I don't judge either way.
                  If life as a para is unendurable or not worthwhile, why not just end it?

                  Not trying to provocate. It's a serious question. I am just curious. Or it can be a rhetorical question. I don't really need an answer. It's something I wonder about for myself sometimes.

                  (And before anybody bashes me, I am not encouraging or advocating he go commit suicide)

                  My answer to not ending it for myself: most of the time it feels like my life is unendurable. But I still think there are enough worthwhile things in my life/about my life for me to keep going.
                  Last edited by orangejello; 10 Sep 2008, 4:17 PM.

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                    Originally posted by Juke_spin
                    Ya know kid, a lot of ppl have said a lota things about lots of stuff and ppl in this thread -but only you have had the gaul to call Leif and I pre-pubescent and tell us to STFU. The bad news is that you've shown your ass here while the good is that Cass posted this and has made plain that its rambling and diverse (not to say divisive) development is more than fine with her. And BTW, I'm real partial to the process of debate as well.

                    Your sanctimonious little eyes are offended by the dialogue between Leif and I? Put one of both of us on Ignore; leave the thread (I suspect it can struggle on w/o you); apply some of the eastern bs meditation you claim to live by or grit your teeth and live with it.
                    Great post

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                      Paras are not Quads and Men are not Women.....

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                        Originally posted by adi chicago
                        Paras are not Quads and Men are not Women.....
                        So you are a women now all of a sudden...

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                          Originally posted by Leif
                          So you are a women now all of a sudden...
                          haha leif ....me women?wrong my friend....

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                            Originally posted by orangejello
                            If life as a para is unendurable or not worthwhile, why not just end it?

                            Not trying to provocate. It's a serious question. I am just curious. Or it can be a rhetorical question. I don't really need an answer. It's something I wonder about for myself sometimes.

                            (And before anybody bashes me, I am not encouraging or advocating he go commit suicide)

                            My answer to not ending it for myself: most of the time it feels like my life is unendurable. But I still think there are enough worthwhile things in my life/about my life for me to keep going.
                            Orange, I see this post of yours was addressed to Todd but I like to answer as well if I might, being a para and all that.

                            -I don’t think any persons really want to end their life, I think all wants to live, at least I want to.

                            Still my life was ruined, almost all of it, I can make a long list of things that got ruined in my life and in my body because of this SCI. -So since this life of mine was ruined, I had to make a new life, and so I did. Still the new life wasn’t that good as the first life that got ruined.

                            Hope my reply make some sense. -Juke is complaining all the time I don’t

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                              Leif, you are still a newbie...
                              TH 12, 43 years post

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                                http://www.usatoday.com/money/econom...-housing_N.htm

                                Maybe inertia can be overcome for something useful for all disabled people as we age. We've looked at a few "55 and better active adult communities" that are aimed at active adults who never expect even a knee replacement. Wide, brick curved steps to front doors without even decorative wrought iron hand guides. They boast first floor master bedrooms and baths but they are often a few steps up or down from the level of the main floor. Of course the garage has the code required step to the house. So much for a single family house. They all tend to also have condo apartments with elevators but we love our larger than 15 pound dog and a bit of deck and garden to sit in is nice also.

                                And I was told by the president of the board of my soldier of the month board that he had never seen knees shake like that while sitting. Somehow surviving the ICU, 2 years of believing I was sick and all that PT would result in recovery and 2 separate inpatient bouts of rehab survived and I discovered I was an amazing public speaker. It was our first hearing in front of a full state house committee and I had all my speakers lined up; scientists, company COO and a CEO of SCI research companies, people with SCIs who were/are biggies in the community and even a tape from Christopher Reeve. Add a 2 page, easy to understand account of what SCI is, how it occurs, causes and costs to the tune of a 1/4 BILLION a year in tiny Maryland alone. Attached letters from researchers from Hopkins and U of Maryland, etc., that all expressed optimism that if enough money were there to work with a cure would come. No intention of talking to anyone but the line up as they showed up as to what order they were in. Things went great. Then 2 women from the Brain Injury Association showed up to testify and asking for rehab for TBIs. That would have taken every dime in the law we were trying to pass. I had no one else to get up and cut their arguments to sawdust. Seems my spousal unit signed my name in the hearing book for me ''just in case''. Maybe it was the low dose valium for spasms; maybe it was knowing nothing was as bad as surviving rehab; then again, it was a great cause and would do so much for so many down the line if passed. I rolled up and countered every point those pros made without a single nerve showing. When we drove home from Annapolis that day I was in awe of myself for a change. It took two years so more hearings where I now had to speak before our law was passed. I could say then that I was not a one shot wonder. Now I would need 3 x 5 cards because of the memory occasionally but if needed I would do it again if needed.

                                Juke, things change. During my second inpatient stay two of my roommates were women who were in their late 80's. They became paras from osteoporosis. Their spines buckled one day on each of them. No falls. I got to hear all about their bowel problems during dinner for 3 weeks before each went on to nursing homes. Then I insisted on someone, male or female, under 60 be my next roommate. So whether it's better housing for all of us who plan on aging or that even very old farts could be paralyzed by nothing more than the strain of standing you would make an excellent advocate with your experience. Maybe volunteer as a person with a disability to work with your county public works department on building code changes? Without us they have some real asnine ideas on what constitutes accessibility.

                                Originally posted by Juke_spin
                                How much of this constant angry rant is because YOU want a cure for YOURSELF? Hey, go for it, but realize that many have different priorities - and my motivation is about nil because:

                                a) I've lived with SCI four and a half decades and realized there wasn't ever going to be a cure for ME. It's nice that science and technology are finally circling close to a cure but it changes not at all that the decade or so I've got left to live will be cureless - even if procedures are found to help out recent traumas

                                b) Sort of an extension of the above; the mindset from living so long resolved to my traumatized condition seems well enough set not to be dethroned by recent events regarding Escr, etc..

                                Advocacy still does tempt me but inertia wins the day. I'd like to do some public speaking in spite of a fear of it but can't see my sixty-four y/o gimped self having much of an audience in the youth/health sky-pie'd US of A.

                                So here I sit with my ruined body somehow staying alive and interested in 'what will happen'. Will we start making the necessary adjustments to be responsible parts of the biosphere? Will I live to see anything approximating a cure being applied to younger injuries in spite of corporate interest to the contrary? Will DA ever admit when he's wrong?
                                Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "I will try again tomorrow."

                                Disclaimer: Answers, suggestions, and/or comments do not constitute medical advice expressed or implied and are based solely on my experiences as a SCI patient. Please consult your attending physician for medical advise and treatment. In the event of a medical emergency please call 911.

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