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    Eating for the planet.

    Anyone?

    So I'll start off:

    1. Earth's people food sources/resources are strained and, in many places, failing.

    2. When we eat vegetarian or vegan we take only a small percentage of the food resources from the planet that we take when we eat animal flesh. We get to know that we are doing our small part to help see the human experiment on Earth turn out successfully.

    As one young CCCer I admire put it, "You feel incredibly smug." and while I can't quite join in either the veganism or smugness he indulges, I can see, appreciate and respect where he's coming from. I can't get into the smugness for a perspective that's steeped in a knowledge of the urgency with which we, the humans abiding on and husbanding the resources of the earth, need to adopt what amounts to a conservative attitude and outlook where our eating is concerned. I can reflect that future generations looking back on this period will likely weigh differently the ideas of who was behaving admirably and who wasn't.

    3._ _ _ ______________?

    4._ _ _ _ _ _?
    Last edited by Juke_spin; 9 Feb 2009, 6:55 PM.
    "The world will not perish for want of wonders but for want of wonder."
    J.B.S.Haldane

    #2
    3- There's no shortage of food in this world. Only a money inbalance and a food distribution problem that's easily fixable... with money.

    Eat whatcha want.

    Bob.
    "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria

    Comment


      #3
      Removed comment..don't want to detract from thread.
      Last edited by Rbrauer; 3 Feb 2009, 3:45 PM. Reason: because
      Rick Brauer or just call me - Mr B

      http://www.riseadventures.org

      Comment


        #4
        Probably could have fed the entire world with what was spent on commercials Sunday.
        If you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.


        Sometimes it is easier to widen doors than it is to open minds.

        Comment


          #5
          Juke, I agree with you. I gave up all mammal eating about twenty years ago specifically because of the amount of grain it takes to feed just one measly cow, grain that could be used to feed a lot of the world's starving people. Then, of course, the methane produced by animal food factories is a huge contributor to global warming, as is the runoff from those factories that ends up in water supplies. Between the growth hormones and the antibiotics that are being fed to cattle, sheep, pigs and so on we are doing a horrible job of polluting our environment, and possibly even creating or contributing to antibiotic resistance in the human population. I don't really feel "smug" about my decision, but I will admit that it is nice to know my carbon footprint is pretty small compared to other peoples, and that another mammal didn't have to die so that I could eat.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Eileen View Post
            Juke, I agree with you. I gave up all mammal eating about twenty years ago specifically because of the amount of grain it takes to feed just one measly cow, grain that could be used to feed a lot of the world's starving people. Then, of course, the methane produced by animal food factories is a huge contributor to global warming, as is the runoff from those factories that ends up in water supplies. Between the growth hormones and the antibiotics that are being fed to cattle, sheep, pigs and so on we are doing a horrible job of polluting our environment, and possibly even creating or contributing to antibiotic resistance in the human population. I don't really feel "smug" about my decision, but I will admit that it is nice to know my carbon footprint is pretty small compared to other peoples, and that another mammal didn't have to die so that I could eat.
            Very nice, Eileen.
            "The world will not perish for want of wonders but for want of wonder."
            J.B.S.Haldane

            Comment


              #7
              I think it is very admirable to not eat meat on idealogical grounds, I dont think it is necessarily healthier though. Humans evolved as carnivores not herbivores, it is natural and healthy for us to eat other animals. Animals that are exclusively herbivores include, Pandas, Sloths, Koalas and Cows. Not exactly the high acheivers of the animal kingdom.

              Comment


                #8
                Pros and Cons, people! If you're posting in the later category at least try aiming higher. So far the posturing and reasoning from the naysayers is sad or clown-worthy.
                "The world will not perish for want of wonders but for want of wonder."
                J.B.S.Haldane

                Comment


                  #9
                  Our brains are what they are because of animal protein.
                  http://www.iianthropology.org/JayThorley
                  Plant sources of protein are always
                  incomplete sources of protein. They lack all the essential amino acids. The only way to
                  make them complete is to introduce another food containing the missing amino acids into
                  the meal. Animal protein on the other hand is always complete and always contains all
                  and usually a much higher concentration of the necessary amino acids for the body to
                  grow and develop.
                  The amino acids in animal protein are much more useful to humans. Scientists have
                  studied the bodies. ability to make use of the amino acids found in many protein sources.
                  Proteins are rated on a scale of 1 . 100 (the latter being the best) to determine their B.V.
                  (biological value) First, on the list scoring a perfect 100 is egg whites from chickens. The
                  vast majority of all other animal derived protein sources fall in closely. Protein sources
                  from plants then show up on the list behind all animal protein sources. This is due to
                  substances in the legumes that cause them to pass through the digestive system without
                  allowing the protein to be absorbed. The inability of our body to digest the protein makes
                  it completely useless many times.
                  Protein was necessary for humans to grow, become stronger and more able to work, and
                  to increase the size and ability of vital organs. Without protein the progression and
                  evolution would have ceased. Primates in many parts of the world had begun eating and
                  benefiting from protein coming from plants. However, in order to achieve the complete
                  benefits of protein a complete and more useable protein source was necessary. Animal
                  protein was the answer.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The argument is not that simple.

                    Vegetarianism or veganism is a personal choice but it isn't a panacea for the sustainability of the planet. Are you arguing that no-one on earth eating meat at all is the way forward or does the 'conservative attitude' you mention simply mean taking a wider responsibility about where we source our meat and fish?

                    A vegetarian only world is simply crazy and would lead to death, disease and a global economic collapse worse than that we are currently experiencing.

                    We are carnivores, part of the food chain. The problem is that we take too much, farm or harvest it unethically (something which affects the food eaten by the two Vs as well) mistreat animals and pump them, or the meat they provide, full of chemicals.

                    The food and drink industry in general has many shocking secrets and consumer awareness and demand for change is the way forward. This is slowly happening in some countries but the apathy of the masses is astonishing.

                    It is heartening to see stories of people growing their own vegetables or rearing their own animals when money is scarce but this is, sadly, dwarfed by the fact that McDonald's profits are up due to the poorer end of society eating there more often to save money.
                    C5/6 incomplete

                    "I assume you all have guns and crack....."

                    Comment


                      #11
                      true about the brain thing. we are not the only hominid's in the history of the world. their was once a plant eating higher primate. they walked upright, and wove plant fibers into clothes, they were gatherers, and in fact had crudely cultivated natural territory where they used nuts, roots, berries and friuts, tubers, grass seeds, and honey. they stored food for winter. they did not make it through the last Ice age. starved and were hunted by the more agresive meat eaters.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by IanTPoulter View Post
                        Our brains are what they are because of animal protein.

                        [/b][/font]
                        Ian, looks like a college student paper. If it's doctoral material I'll be surprised. Goggling Jay Thornley brings up only your PDF file and his single reference for the paper at the bottom of the page is:

                        Reference

                        Haviland W. A. et al. 2005Cultural Anthropology: The Human Challenge 11th Edition.
                        So he read a paper or book and based his position of the necessity of human carnivorism on it.

                        Aim higher.

                        We need to agree on the value of reevaluating how/what we eat and the desirability of making/leaving smaller carbon footprints and overall global responsibility. If we either won't engage or rationalize where we stand in regard to the harmony of the complex web of earth's ecosystem then we're not behaving responsibly or admirably.

                        A carbon footprint is “the total set of GHG (greenhouse gas) emissions caused directly and indirectly by an individual, organization, event or...
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_footprint
                        "The world will not perish for want of wonders but for want of wonder."
                        J.B.S.Haldane

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Ian, I am not a vegan, mostly because I lack the discipline to pull it off. Give up ice cream? No way! But the very article you quoted mentions a source of animal protein (the egg) where nothing has to die to enter the food chain. The eggs are unfertilized. There is also protein to be found in things like cheese, ice cream, and other products that do not require the killing of the animal. I am not suggesting that everyone becomes a vegetarian, as that is an individual choice, but one can live with health (and a lower chance of coronary artery disease) when one lives a vegetarian lifestyle.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Juke_spin View Post
                            Ian, looks like a college student paper. If it's doctoral material I'll be surprised. Goggling Jay Thornley brings up only your PDF file and his single reference for the paper at the bottom of the page is:

                            So he read a paper or book and based his position of the necessity of human carnivorism on it.

                            Aim higher.

                            We need to agree on the value of reevaluating how/what we eat and the desirability of making/leaving smaller carbon footprints and overall global responsibility. If we either won't engage or rationalize where we stand in regard to the harmony of the complex web of earth's ecosystem then we're not behaving responsibly or admirably.

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_footprint
                            S far as I am aware the animal protein brain evolution theory is broadly accepted by athropologists so I just grabbed the first link I could find that illustrated it, I have to come back to this thread tomorrow unfiortunately. I will try and back my views up a bit more comprehensively.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Historically and metabolically/biologically we are and always have been omnivores. Who amongst you in the eat-meat category would like to live the rest of your life eating only animal protein?
                              Last edited by Juke_spin; 4 Feb 2009, 5:13 AM.
                              "The world will not perish for want of wonders but for want of wonder."
                              J.B.S.Haldane

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