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Mutilation of daughter as disability treatment

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    #76
    Originally posted by PDnemesis
    No one is this day and age NEEDS to menstruate. There are multiple ways to stop menstruation without removing her uterus and ovaries. Since she is totally dependent upon the care she receives - there would not be an issue with noncompliance.

    If she has the awareness of a three month old (which I question) why would she have any fear of blood?

    Hormone treatment could have been utilized for Ashley to keep her height on the shorter side of normal without it becoming something that creates a minefield of other potential problems.

    She is going to be 13 inches shorter than her anticipated heighth - where are the organs that were going to grow in this adult sized body going to grow in this child sized body?

    These folks can afford expensive surgeries, surely they can afford a hoyer lift?

    Perhaps euthanizing people with disabilities who grow to be to inconveniently tall should be considered a compassionate choice?

    The horone treatment she received is going to have no impact on keepingher weight low. What are they going to do to stop her from being the weight of a 5'10 inch adult? Isn't weight a greater consideration than height? What are other surgeries are ahead for Ashley to keep her small and manageable?

    At what point is it crossing the line? I think it is long been passed.

    Who are you to dictate what treatment was the best for Ashley? Do you know her? Have you spent days with her to know what she enjoys and what she doesnt? Long term Birth Control can cause blood clots and especially in someone who is bed bound and not active.

    Who are you/Antiquity or anyone else who is faulting these parents to say what was best for someone you dont even know?

    This was not a hasty decision. Alot of circumstancses were considered-pros and cons-before surgeons agreed to do the surgery. All circumstances were considered and this was what was decided to be best in the eyes of the parents, the people who know her best.

    We are not talking about a federal mandated treatment for disabled people. We are talking about one individual circumstance to better the life of a young girl.

    Who are any of us to judge them? Just because you have an agenda or a platform that needs thumping does not give you the right to look into someones circumstances and tell them what is best for someone/situation you have no knowledge of. I have made decisions in life that other people have not always agreed with but that does not give anyone the right to come in, impose their views and decide what is best for me or my family without knowing me.

    Ethical standards were considered in this circumstance or the doctors would not have proceeded with this surgery.

    There are children in foster care being abused every day. But yet we waste time trying to berate and fault a loving couple who are doing what they think is best.
    T12-L2; Burst fracture L1: Incomplete walking with AFO's and cane since 1989

    My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am. ~Author Unknown

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      #77
      I wonder if organs are like goldfish, only growing as large as their container allows?

      Keeping Ashley's weight down shouldn't be an issue, she's tube-fed and doesn't eat for pleasure.
      Blog:
      Does This Wheelchair Make My Ass Look Fat?

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        #78
        Ashley is being given massive doses of hormones which she has to take because her uterus was removed. So she is at risk for increased blot clots and all the other complications that come with taking HRT.
        Ashley is a little girl worth knowing about:http://www.ashleyx.info

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          #79
          The only reason she would need hormones is if her ovaries were removed. The uterus does not secrete hormones. It is only need to procreate. The ovaries secrete hormones.
          T12-L2; Burst fracture L1: Incomplete walking with AFO's and cane since 1989

          My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am. ~Author Unknown

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            #80
            Her ovaries were removed. She did not have a partial hysterectomy.
            Ashley is a little girl worth knowing about:http://www.ashleyx.info

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by LaMemChose
              Were the leg braces I wore as a child barbaric? These would not be utilized today, but they were when I was a child.
              .....
              What about the tendon transfers? I turned 9 in the hospital when I had my first such surgery on my hand, wrist and arm, back in the dark ages of these operations. It didn't take, didn't work. Was this wrong? Barbaric? Evil? Should've left well enough alone?

              I'm not these parents, not in their home, not the parent of a child with the cognitive abilities of a three month old.

              I cannot say what I'd do were I them. I do believe they should be left alone to love, care for their daughter.
              I have avoided posting in this arguement, but I felt the need to add to this post. I agree completely with LaMem here. We already do make decisions for our children, that we believe are in their best interests, not "medically necessary" but to make their lives easier or better. I believe the mitranoff procedure was developed for children specifically. That is major surgery, yet we don't question parents who chose it for their children.

              I am just glad that I have never been in the position of this family.
              T7-8 since Feb 2005

              Comment


                #82
                I think I am more in alignment with the parents decision.

                Next case.
                The test of success is not what you do when you are on top. Success is how high you bounce when you hit the bottom
                --General George Patton

                Complex problems need to be solved collectively.
                ––Paul Nussbaum
                usc87.blogspot.com

                Comment


                  #83
                  People can disagree about the procedures, and their medical "necessity", but the issues are not about any medical procedures being unnecessary or considered as "mutilation". If there is medical harm and dysfunction, among other adverse effects of a condition, and a procedure can aid in improving function, independence and over-all long term benefits to the individual, then the pros/cons and risks are weighed.

                  A mitrofanoff, braces, and tendon transfers for example, are primarily to aide in the function of the individual, with hopes of long-term benefits from the added function the procedures/tools may result. No procedure is guaranteed, so a failed individual effort or poor result are not good examples IF data shows otherwise. Individual results will vary, but procedures which have poor outcomes are generally not used. Some may not have enough data, especially if new and relatively experimental, but mitro and tendon transfers are beyond the experimental stages (tho more outcome studies may be necessary). This is really not relevant, as those procedures have shown to help improve the health and functional benefits FOR THE INDIVIDUALS, as well as minimize the need for caregiver aid - not increase dysfunction, create greater dependence and overall need. A mitrofanoff was primarily used in children, but the benefits shown have increased it';s application on a growing number of adults. This procedure is not simply to aid in the work of caregivers, but rather to improve functional benefits to the individual who receives it and to decrease adverse effects of long-term catheter use - from infections to cancer. Even braces, which in the past may have been painful, created discomfort and dependence, was in part to help aid in the physical improvement and function FOR THE INDIVIDUAL. Development of better technology and materials, including the knowledge base in physiology, body mechanics and engineering, etc. have helped to improve the types of braces used today, and help to improve function and minimize pain for the individuals affected.

                  Using antiquated science and tools as comparison doesn't work. Bringing in issue of foster children abuse is a non sequitur. Actually, if people were so concerned about the abuse and welfare of children, one should think a bit more about why children are placed in foster care and who the perpetrators of abuse against children primarily are. Strange to talk about non-intervention in personal family affairs in this case, but attempt to divert attention to the need for greater intervention in the personal/family lives of others. However, all this is moot.

                  People can make all the assumptions they want about the reasons for what's going on in this individual case. People might be better served to take the family's own words. If taken as fact - Per the family website, the Statement from the family is as follows:
                  Ashley’s biggest challenges are discomfort and boredom; all other considerations in this discussion take a back seat to these central challenges. The “Ashley Treatment” goes right to the heart of these challenges and we strongly believe that it will mitigate them in a significant way and provide Ashley with lifelong benefits.

                  Unlike what most people thought, the decision to pursue the “Ashley Treatment” was not a difficult one.
                  Whether one believes this individual case has broader social implications or not, the fact that the public is discussing in, including in this forum, indicates interest, even if for mere sensational folly. Public engagement by the family, thru interviews and website, etc. are also an integral part of this. At the very least, these things in itself have made it a social affair.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by chick
                    Using antiquated science and tools as comparison doesn't work. Bringing in issue of foster children abuse is a non sequitur. Actually, if people were so concerned about the abuse and welfare of children, one should think a bit more about why children are placed in foster care and who the perpetrators of abuse against children primarily are. Strange to talk about non-intervention in personal family affairs in this case, but attempt to divert attention to the need for greater intervention in the personal/family lives of others. However, all this is moot.
                    I was only making a statement that their are more important issues to worry about rather than faulting and attempting to lynch the parents for their decision.

                    The child has a loving home and the poster is trying to make it seem as though they "mutilated" her.

                    Might I suggest this book??? http://www.amazon.com/Grammatically-...e=UTF8&s=books
                    Last edited by darkeyed_daisy; 12 Jan 2007, 11:50 PM.
                    T12-L2; Burst fracture L1: Incomplete walking with AFO's and cane since 1989

                    My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am. ~Author Unknown

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by sjean423

                      I am just glad that I have never been in the position of this family.
                      Amennn, my sistah. That is largely why I am so reluctant to judge them. I feel that they are the ones that know what works best for them, their family and Ashley. They seem to have their hearts in the right place, so more power to them and may the Force be with them.
                      Blog:
                      Does This Wheelchair Make My Ass Look Fat?

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by darkeyed_daisy
                        I was only making a statement that their are more important issues to worry about rather than faulting and attempting to lynch the parents for their decision . . . Might I suggest this book??? http://www.amazon.com/Grammatically-...e=UTF8&s=books
                        Might I suggest you read the book yourself or just stop being a grammar-nazi? Chick used "it's" instead of "its" which could easily be a typo just as I'll assume your use of "their" instead of "there" was a typo. Big deal. It's a sad indicator that you can't successfully argue the points someone makes when you instead attack grammar. These are informal message boards are not Doctoral dissertations, you know.

                        * * *

                        RE: This thread - I personally don't know what's more fucked up, that Ashley's parents rationalize their medical "procedures" by erroneously saying they will alleviate Ashley's discomfort and boredom, or the ease of which so many of you people posting support their decisions. Disguisting.

                        But I don't think I can add more than what has already been so well pointed out by Antiquity, Lynnifer and ::gasp:: chick (or find the energy or desire to try), so I'll shut the fuck up now.
                        Last edited by Scorpion; 13 Jan 2007, 12:23 AM.

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                          #87
                          Originally posted by Scorpion
                          Might I suggest you read the book yourself or just stop being a grammar-nazi? Chick used "it's" instead of "its" which could easily be a typo just as I'll assume your use of "their" instead of "there" was a typo. Big deal. It's a sad indicator that you can't successfully argue the points someone makes when you instead attack grammar. These are informal message boards are not Doctoral dissertations, you know.
                          Well scorpo she could have left my thoughts alone but yet chose to attempt to attack my mention of foster care..... I am not interested in grammar but if you gonna use big words/adjectives/adverbs you need to know how!!!!
                          T12-L2; Burst fracture L1: Incomplete walking with AFO's and cane since 1989

                          My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am. ~Author Unknown

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                            #88
                            Originally posted by darkeyed_daisy
                            I am not interested in grammar but if you gonna use big words/adjectives/adverbs you need to know how!!!!
                            Funny, she does know how. If you're going to be a grammar-nazi, at least make sure your own grammer is flawless. It's hilarious to me that the only people here on CC who incessantly whine about chick using "big words" are those who don't agree with her posts or who feel personally attacked by her. Big babies.
                            Last edited by Scorpion; 13 Jan 2007, 12:22 AM.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by Scorpion
                              Funny, she does know how. If you're going to be a grammar-nazi, at least make sure your own grammer is flawless. It's hilarious to me that the only people here on CC who incessantly whine about chick using "big words" are those who don't agree with her posts or who feel personally attacked by her. Big babies.

                              T12-L2; Burst fracture L1: Incomplete walking with AFO's and cane since 1989

                              My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am. ~Author Unknown

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by darkeyed_daisy
                                Ah, the intelligent retort I expected.

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