Project Walk has a new Specialist in Training on the East Coast!

[bob clark]

Hi FoolishOld,

I welcome input from vendors of products and services being discussed by CC members.

In some instances I guess I do too. But creating a thread solely for the purpose of advertising that "Project Walk has a new Specialist in Training on the East Coast!" is a bit "in your face". If a member discussion is being had about a certain product or service and a rep from the company chimes in to answer a question or two or to set the record straight then that's one thing. Most people just post a link to the product's or service's website that they're discussing and members can go there on their own time to read up on the particular product or service or send the vendor an email. I just see any type of advertising as "the camel getting its nose under the tent" and the next thing we know it'll be like MTV's website.... not a pixel static or unused and with loud annoying noise! Animated avatars annoy me too, I can't concentrate on the written word, but at least I have the option of hitting the ESC key and stopping them. I'm not the consummate complainer and I try to be tolerant so have only expressed my views on them when someone else brings up the subject and I feel like replying.

Who would object to Jimmy Mack letting us know about his sandwich shop?

Who's Jimmy Mack? Really, I never heard of him or the outfit. I've heard of and eaten at Subway. I hope Jimmy Mack makes better sandwiches and/or subs than that! Seems like a Google is in order.

I like your idea of a special designation for posters with a vested interest, but the donation idea strikes me as a shakedown or ad fee.

It's only a "shakedown" if someone is forcing you to do something against your will and usually against the law as in extortion. As far as an ad fee goes that's the reason behind the rule against businesses creating their own threads here or hijacking one to sell their product or service. And with Johnson & Johnson generously funding CC behind the scene there really isn't, AFAIK, a need for more funding. That's why I said donate... but as in compulsory donation (oxymoron?) as seen on religious programming, and keeping it to a bare minimum. Too many complaints and out it goes.

I don't see any of the thousands of other medical e-vendors trying to advertise here. Openly or covertly. They know the rules and surprisingly abide by them. Just a few sneaky apples do.

This is a SCI discussion forum, not a place for glitzy, annoying popup ads and commercialization. I referred to Project Walk's advertising in the terms of "sneakily" and "in the guise of" and other descriptive words such as these and I believe them to be accurate. Maybe Dr. Young would like to create a forum here that's commercialized and let the businesses go at it. At least that way I could avoid their underhanded and unscrupulous advertising and advertising altogether. Maybe I'm a bit over the top about advertisements but when watching TV, my finger (I don't use my thumb but heard that most people do! ) is on the remote control "favorite button" all the time. As soon as I see a commercial I click it. And if it's around the hour or half hour I usually just click to C-SPAN1, 2 or 3 for a few minutes to avoid the insult to my senses. I know that advertising pays for the programming (and profit is a good thing when done honestly) but until the volume of the commercial is equal to or less than that of the show that I was watching and the scenes in it don't flash by practically subliminally, then screw 'em. They're annoying and "too" in your face, eye and ear. Let's get real.

Has CC ever held chat style conferences for vendors?

I don't know. I've only been to Chat a few times and it was always deserted. Hmmm. But if you'd like something like that then suggest it to Dr. Young.

Also, does Florida require 501c3 corporations to post IRS 990 on the home page of websites? Are there allowed exceptions, like posting the annual report as a substitute?

Not that I know of. California doesn't either but they do have a State database that ALL nonprofits have to submit their Federal Form 990 to in order to further enhance sunshine into nonprofits.... there are many scammers out there. To the best of my knowledge no State requires Form 990 to be posted on their website.... it's a Federal IRS form, but it must be made available to the public upon request. I just suggested that Project Walk post it on their website when I wrote "And if they're proud of what they do and of their new nonprofit status, [they] should be proud to post it on the first page of their website."

Hey, I would write more (verbosity) but I gotta get in bed and off my foot (pressure sore) or the damn thing will never heal. You're gettin' a break! I can't/don't write while in bed. My desktop computer is in the livingroom... no laptop or notebook.

Have a good one.

[dan_nc]

PW and SCI-Step both post interesting new developments in the E&R forum in the form of little press releases. It's beneficial to the SCI community. Granted, for some reason the PW ones seem a bit more commercial. There have been other people touting their services here on CC such as that SCI-Acupuncture person in Los Angeles. While it would be admirable for these places to donate to the Keck Center, I don't think they should be required.

[etexley]

ahoy

Hey Snowman, thanks for the insights. I've been emailing your program from the website, maybe it got lost?

I will investigate your 5 day program. Do you do therapy 7 days? or only 5?

I will be quite interested in whatever publications you can produce. There is very little accademic information available which directly relates exercise to functional return.

In all my time injured, never have I met a physical therapist who themselves were challenged by an injury. I think it would be a benefit to the community.

When and who did you email? I haven't recieved anything.

Let me answer your questions here:

1) Look at this link: http://www.projectwalk.org/portal_program.htm
It should answer your questions about our program options. All of them do require you to come out to the facility for at least a week. However, with Eric now on the East Coast you can contact him as well.

2) We have not published any books on our program. I am currently working with UC Irvine on a comprehensive study of our program. Should be completed in the next 6 months and hopefully published sometime thereafter. Details can be found here: http://www.projectwalk.org/pw_inst_s...arch_news.html

3) No.

4) Details of our home based program can be found here: http://www.projectwalk.org/pw_program/home.html
It costs ~ $1800

Hope this helps!

[bob clark]

There is very little accademic information available which directly relates exercise to functional return.

Dr. Young wrote a couple paragraphs about it (in particular paragraphs 2 & 3) HERE.

He may have written in more detail about it elsewhere on the CC forums and if so hopefully someone can direct you to the thread(s).

Good luck.

[divin'darren]

bob:

I don't know why you act as if PW is the only place putting info up on these boards. There are many other facilities that start threads telling about there services.

NextSteps:
/forum/showthread.php?t=22462
/forum/showthread.php?t=48188

Awakenings:
/forum/showthread.php?p=325597#post325597
/forum/showthread.php?p=382613#post382613
/forum/showthread.php?p=377178#post377178

Sci-Step
/forum/showthread.php?p=330477#post330477
/forum/showthread.php?p=348250#post348250

These are only a few, there are MANY more. And I don't have a problem with it! I don't know why anyone would! I think it's important to be up on all the things going on across the country. Isn't that what we're here for???

[bob clark]

Hi Divin'Darren,

Fancy meeting you here!

Just kiddin'.

Tell ya what I'm gonna do..... er.... or not do. After this post I won't write another word about any type of advertising here on the CC forums. Let the whole commercial SCI medical industry come in here and sell whatever they want. I don't own this website and quite frankly I'm tired of writing about Project Walk and all of the blatant (against CC forum rules) advertising that goes on here. Let PW and everyone else advertise all they want as I'll no longer concern myself with it. If Dr. Young, the Nurses and the CC members don't care about the advertising, why should I?

And poor ol' Johnson & Johnson who pays for the website doesn't get a single word of advertising. No good deed goes unpunished.

But I was just about to post on the latest Sci-Step, Inc. threads (so I'm not "picking on" PW) but was waiting for them to email me a copy of their Form 990 first. I want to at least be a bit informed before I start writing about a subject. Just yesterday I received 3 emails back from them and was going to start writing but then the epiphany hit me so decided not to waste my time. I did however read here at the forums that they were a nonprofit organization but their email replies state otherwise.

Here's one of them:

Bob,
Hello!

I think that you are mistaken with your request, as we are not a non-profit organization. We are a for-profit, private out-patient physical therapy center.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Michele Brock
Program Director
Sci-Step, Inc.
4457 Bethany Road, Suite J
Mason, Ohio 45040
(513) 459-2282
(513) 459-0265 Fax

In contrast to the advertising that Project Walk and Sci-Step etc do in the CC forums here's a quite tame example of someone who got warned against just answering a few unsolicited questions.

In this THREAD created by Dr. Young entitled "Super-oxygenated Water Kills Bugs Dead" a cease and desist request was made by Nurse KLD to the distributor of the product. I was quite interested in the product and posted a few questions regarding it since I inject about half an ounce of 3% hydrogen peroxide into my penis each time before I catheterize to kill the bacteria in my urethra. And this Super-oxygenated Water may have been a much safer, less caustic way of killing bacteria, so naturally it aroused my curiosity. If I need any more information on the product I'll just email Victor Beitner or PM Lynnifer. Or since the CC forums now appear to be open to commercial advertising maybe he'll start a thread of his own.... hey, maybe using huge red #10 fonts so it'll be more eye catching.

So a warning that commercial advertising is prohibited in here was given to a vendor even though he didn't start the thread (Dr. Young did) and who was merely answering questions from Lynnifer and myself. But other vendors are allowed to come in here and CREATE their own threads in order to promote their products and services. Seems as though there are no set standards as to who can and cannot advertise in here and it isn't my job to police it or sort it all out.

Maybe someday in the future we'll discuss something other than PW and advertising here on the CC forums.

Best of luck in your recovery and have a good day.

Bob.

[chick]

Bob C.

[Snowman]

Hey Snowman, thanks for the insights. I've been emailing your program from the website, maybe it got lost?

I will investigate your 5 day program. Do you do therapy 7 days? or only 5?

I will be quite interested in whatever publications you can produce. There is very little accademic information available which directly relates exercise to functional return.

In all my time injured, never have I met a physical therapist who themselves were challenged by an injury. I think it would be a benefit to the community.

Etexley

We only have a 5 day program.
Regarding the research, there is quite a bit of exercise related research out there. Most, however, is rodent based. I'm sure you have already done this, but if you go to www.pubmed.gov and search for " exercise spinal cord injury" you will find a lot of reading material. You can also go to our website's message board and look under "Other Research". Link: http://www.projectwalk.org/cgi-bin/y...pl?board=other

[divin'darren]

bob:

I don't know how the posts from from SCI-Step, NextSteps, PW, etc are different. They all look the same and give a similar message. The ones from PW are no more "in your face" than the others.

So if KLD shot down the one post, wouldn't she get rid of all the "inappropriate advertisements" by PW and everyone else?

Plus, why are you telling this to me? I'm not a moderator, I'm not advertising. If you have such a problem take it up with the moderators not me.

And saying that you don't pick on PW is flat out untrue. You chime in every time on a PW post and never question other threads.

[bob clark]

Divin'Darren,

I thought you would want this little joust to end but seem determined to keep the ambers of contrariety stoked. No matter, I will hold true to my word and not comment on the commercial advertising that goes on in here.

I don't know how the posts from from SCI-Step, NextSteps, PW, etc are different. They all look the same and give a similar message. The ones from PW are no more "in your face" than the others.

You obviously didn't read or understand my last post. I didn't say they were different and was just about to confront and question Sci-Step, that IMO is just as "in your face" as PW and some of the others as the regularity of threads and posts of this nature have increased. As I've already written, I'm not the forum police and won't waste anymore of my time with any of them. Let 'em make an eBay website out of this forum for all I care.

So if KLD shot down the one post, wouldn't she get rid of all the "inappropriate advertisements" by PW and everyone else?

That's a question that you'll need to address to SCI-Nurse KLD. But more than likely it's because he or she doesn't moderate the "Exercise and Recovery" forum.

Plus, why are you telling this to me? I'm not a moderator, I'm not advertising. If you have such a problem take it up with the moderators not me.

Of course you're kidding. But if you're not and you don't understand how a discussion board works, when a member personally addresses and questions another member they usually personally answer them back. Get a grip on it. As I've already written and made only too clear to anyone who can read but more importantly can comprehend what they read, I no longer have a problem with anything that goes on here at CC.

And saying that you don't pick on PW is flat out untrue. You chime in every time on a PW post and never question other threads.

I don't have the time, desire or ability to correct everything that's imperfect in this forum. Nor is it my duty to do so. But I do what I can in the time allotted in my day. Again, if you read what I wrote in my last post and reiterated in this post, i.e. "was just about to confront and question Sci-Step" about their behavior here, you would understand that I wasn't "picking on" Project Walk. And it's untrue that I "chime in every time" PW does their thing. Perhaps your PW tunnel vision has you somewhat befuddled.

99% of the stuff that I write in here is to try to help people. I've been at this SCI crap for a long twenty seven (7-22-79) years compared to your short two (7-23-04) years. Coincidentally, the month of July was not a very good month for either of us. My objective is not to police the extensive rule breaking of the few in here but when the obvious was presented I reacted in the full good faith of a concerned member. But it's beginning to appear as though most of the stuff that you write in here is in defense of a rule breaker.

So if you're done directing posts at me we won't have anything else to write to one another.

I extended an olive branch and you struck a match or flicked your Bic to it. Cool by me.

[Wise Young]

Perhaps I should comment on the issue of commercial advertising on this site. We have had extensive discussions amongst the moderators about this issue and there is a range of opinions concerning what is permitted or not on this site.

The mission of CareCure is to provide information to the spinal cord injury community about issues of importance to them. This includes information about care, cure, exercise, relationships and sex, etc. Valuable information comes from many sources, including commercial ones.

Although we don't want to be overwhelmed by advertisements, we also don't want to exclude information for all commercial sources. Thus, we allow some commercial posts and discussions of commercial products and services, including information from people who are members of organizations or companies that provide the products and services.

If we were to exclude all people from organizations that make money from the spinal cord injury community, the community would not be well-served. For example, strictly speaking, we would have to exclude all doctors and even scientists from posting about their work on the site.

Many members of this site work for organizations who provide products and services to the community for profit. Snowman is a long time member of this site. He has been generally helpful with his comments. It would be difficult for him not to talk about or comment on Project Walk because he works there. He does not hide the fact that he works at Project Walk. People should read his posts with that in mind.

As I see it, there are several types of "commercial" posts that range from unacceptable to more acceptable.

1. Spam advertisements. These are posts by people who are not contributing members of our community and who are blatantly advertising their products on our site. These are not acceptable and we will generally remove these and, if the person continues to post them, we ban the person. This has occurred recently.
   
2. Advertisements of commercial products or services. Occasionally, a member of our community posts information about products or services provided by the organization that the member works for. While we generally discourage such advertisements, the decision to remove the posts depends on whether the information is of interest to our community.
   
3. Personal products and services. A member of the community may post information about personal products or services that he/she is providing for a charge. Generally, we have moved such posts to the Classified Forum which was created for this purpose.
   
4. Solicitation of funds. Some members have solicited funds for various projects on this site. We have tended to discourage these, particularly in the main care and cure forums. In many cases, we have moved them to either the Member's only forum or to the Legislative, Funding & Advocacy forum.
   
5. Advertising banners in member posts. Some members have placed advertising banners in their by-lines. We have had extensive discussions and arguments over this but we have generally discouraged such advertisements when they are blatantly commercial. Many people, however, have put links in their bylines to websites or their favorite organizations.
   
6. Discussions of commercial services and products. Some members of our community may post about commercial services and products that are provided by their organizations. We have generally left these posts alone as long as the information provided is of value to the community and especially if they are in response to questions from other members.
   
7. Testimonials. Many members of our community have posted testimonials about services and products provided by commercial organizations. We have not discouraged nor removed such testimonials, if they are relevant to the community, even when the testimonials may have been at the behest of organizations seeking to recruit customers from our community.

Our members now post an average over 500 posts per day. Our volunteer moderators do not have the time to remove or scrutinize all commercial posts. Usually, blatant advertisements are removed within a few hours or a day or so. We do our best and the site has been reasonably free of advertisements.

Finally, since our inception in July 2001, even though we could probably make substantial amounts of money and such funds would help in the operation of this site and allow us to provide more services and products (right now, all the work on this site is voluntary), CareCure has avoided advertising banners. This is in part because I do not want our site to become dependent on commercial advertisement.

Wise.

[kevinj1]

One of the best facilities that I have seen in the Southeast region of the Center for Neuro Recovery. It is located in North Palm Beach, Florida. This is not an advertisement but more of my opinion of what I have seen to work. Including myself, I have seen dozens of individuals with spinal cord injuries make tremendous strides and great progress in every day living skills. I strongly suggest you take a look at their website and at least giving them a call.


http://www.centerforneurorecovery.com/

http://www.centerforneurorecovery.co...rd-injury-sci/