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    #16
    Just trying to stay in shape.

    Hey, thanks for all the posts. This is my first opportunity to check back. I believe I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in. Despite my "advanced age" I want to continue to play w/c BB at a high level. Hence, my current interest in weight training. My competitors are generally 10 to 30 yrs. younger than me, and I need to do something to improve strength and speed.
    The weight loss is so that I have less to push and want to look better. I have a hand surgeon that monitors my hand problems. I tried a search for basketball specific weight training, but couldn't find anything. I'll check the links provided, but none of them sound like what I'm looking for. Keep posting, if you come up with anything else.

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      #17
      Tasty-

      You want to push faster, accelerate faster, etc. Right? If you went out and pushed until you couldnt push anymore (until failure) which muscles would burn? Anterior deltoid primarily, triceps and forearms secondarily.

      Now we want to concentrate on the primary and secondary muscles involved in this movement. However, we have to be sure we work the antagonist muscles equally or there will be an inbalance in strength of opposing muscles. Usually results in injury, especially in older age folk (no offense).

      So lets say you do front raise and upright rotator cuff (upper arm parallel to floor, arm bent at 90*, start with hand down towards floor and rotate backwards until hand has traveled apporx 180*... this is the very similar movement as pushing a wheelchair (without extending your arms obviously)). Now the front raise will work primarily your anterior deltoid (primary) and the upright rot cuff will work the mainly the posterior deltoid and the rot cuff. Superset them together would be a quick, simple shoulder workout and be effective as long as you are smart with your weight and how your body is feeling.

      I would say med-heavy weight for BB, but since you are older I would recommend higher reps, lower weight. Regardless of age if you race you would want to do higher reps, low weight (duh how many times are you hitting the wheels in 26mi?).

      I hope that made sense to you. If not let me know and Ill try to rephrase it.

      -Jeff.
      IMPOSSIBLE IS JUST A BIG WORD THROWN AROUND BY SMALL MEN WHO FIND IT EASIER TO LIVE IN THE WORLD THEY'VE BEEN GIVEN THAN TO EXPLORE THE POWER THEY HAVE TO CHANGE IT. IMPOSSIBLE IS NOT A FACT. IT'S AN OPINION. IMPOSSIBLE IS NOT A DECLARATION. IT'S A DARE. IMPOSSIBLE IS POTENTIAL. IMPOSSIBLE IS TEMPORARY.

      IMPOSSIBLE IS NOTHING.

      Comment


        #18
        Might want to explain what a superset is, Jeff. Good advice, though.

        Tasty, I think your best bet would be to go to a local gym and talk to a trainer. Tell him what you're looking to strengthen. I'll bet he'd go over some exercises you could do at home and not charge you or anything. In my six years it's been my experience that people will bend over backward to help - whether we want it or not (and it's almost always the latter for me)...
        6/18/00: T-5 complete

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          #19
          well

          What I've been doing for the last year is lifting dumbbells standing up between parallel bars, in my braces. I didn't want to risk further pressure injury, and lifting weights above my head while seated seems like a really novel way to injure myself. You can also do MANY exercises with dumbbells...chest press, laying rows, extensions. Lay down on a bed, it's completely safe. And its alot cheaper than $50 a month gym membership. That is, unless you're going to the gym to meet women...for some reason, chiks seem to think that their "workouts" need to be some social activity. For romance, I stick to bars, and the dairy section at the grocery

          The other thing is that if anything needs to be made stronger, it's my returning core muscles, abs, paraspinals, gluteus.

          I do hit my speed bag seated now, but that's for a cardio workup...about 1000 reps a day, broken up into a couple sets. Hitting the speed bag has been the most severe cardio workout that I've gotten since I've been hurt.

          I did it...I bought a bench. You know where it is? In the back of my place. It takes me 15 minutes to tie down my chair and transfer to it. It will take about 10 minutes to load the weights. And it aint safe to bench press alone! Period...
          Eric Texley

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            #20
            musclebeach, et. al

            Some clarification would be helpful. What is a superset? However, I'll print out your post, and bring it to the gym. The machines provide diagrams as to the muscle groups that will be impacted by their use. My plan definitely is to focus on low weight, high reps. This should also improve cardio and assist with the minimal weight loss I need. A trainer is available for an extra fee, but, in my experience, most AB's have little insight as to what works for w/c athletes.

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              #21
              Try 5x5 Program To Build Muscle. 5 Sets/5 Reps Heavy Weight
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              John@bike-on.com
              c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
              sponsored handcycle racer

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                #22
                [quote=musclebeach]Thanks Rock... that reminds me. Even if you dont lift weights and you use a wheelchair you need to be doing some rotator cuff exercises. If you dont know, the rotator cuff is four muscles (teres minor, infraspinatus, supraspinatus, and subscapularis) on your upper back that keeps your shoulder joint from "popping" out in addition to allowing you to rotate your arm backwards.

                The problem with wheelchairs is you are mainly using your anterior deltoid to push it. Obviously this muscle is going to get stronger and there muscles of the rotator cuff are getting minimal exercise. This is one of the reasons so many SCIs have shoulder problems (namely rot cuff).

                A lot of guys who go to the gym wanting a big bench, will only do chest and never worry about training back and rot cuff. Rows and pulldowns work the rot cuff to some degree, but to train them to prevent injury you should specifically target them. I use either a band or light dumbbells[quote]


                Thanks for the info..

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Rock517
                  Might want to explain what a superset is, Jeff.
                  Originally posted by tasty
                  Some clarification would be helpful. What is a superset?
                  A superset is where you take two or more exercises and combo them together. You can superset any exercises, however it has been in several studies that supersetting opposing muscles groups (bi/tri or chest/back) promotes greater gains.

                  Let me give you an example of supersetting that you could do. Lets pick dumbbell hammer curl (DHC) and single arm tricep extension (SATE) and lets say your rep scheme is 3x10 for both. There are two ways to do this.

                  #1
                  10 reps DHC right arm
                  10 reps SATE right arm
                  10 reps DHC left arm
                  10 reps SATE left arm

                  rest

                  10 reps DHC right arm
                  10 reps SATE right arm
                  10 reps DHC left arm
                  10 reps SATE left arm

                  rest

                  10 reps DHC right arm
                  10 reps SATE right arm
                  10 reps DHC left arm
                  10 reps SATE left arm

                  rest

                  #2
                  10 reps DHC right arm
                  10 reps DHC left arm
                  10 reps SATE right arm
                  10 reps SATE left arm

                  rest

                  10 reps DHC right arm
                  10 reps DHC left arm
                  10 reps SATE right arm
                  10 reps SATE left arm

                  rest

                  10 reps DHC right arm
                  10 reps DHC left arm
                  10 reps SATE right arm
                  10 reps SATE left arm

                  rest

                  Either way is fine, just do these exercises near a dumbbell rack because more than likely you wont do the same weight for both exercises.

                  You also dont have to superset opposing muscle groups.

                  Originally posted by tasty
                  However, I'll print out your post, and bring it to the gym. The machines provide diagrams as to the muscle groups that will be impacted by their use. My plan definitely is to focus on low weight, high reps. This should also improve cardio and assist with the minimal weight loss I need. A trainer is available for an extra fee, but, in my experience, most AB's have little insight as to what works for w/c athletes.
                  Machines are good, but for shoulders I really recommend dumbbells. The motion of most machines are poor (especially the shoulder ones in my opinion). Remember back against a wall so flipping over backwards is kept to a minimum!

                  I can help you out with specifics if youd like. Such as good starting movements and suggestions for stretching, rep/set schemes, weight, good machines, etc. Just ask. I have the experience and I am in a chair. So I know what is possible, etc. So I hope I can help if youd like it!


                  Originally posted by fuentejps
                  Try 5x5 Program To Build Muscle. 5 Sets/5 Reps Heavy Weight
                  Unfortunetly this wont work for him since he is looking for more endurance stamina. However, I cycle this in and love it. Have you ever tried 10x10 on auxilary lifts? For example, hit up the benchpress with a lower rep scheme (powerlifting program for example) then go to the bench machine or get some dumbbells and do 10x10. Get the fuckin trashcan ready.

                  I actually just finished 5x5 for bi/tri. 75# DB preacher curls combo 135# BB lying tri ext. Thats what you mean by heavy.

                  Originally posted by Shaun
                  Thanks for the info..
                  Anytime my man! I really push rot cuff for ABs and I believe SCIs need it much more! Also I believe quads need more rot cuff work than paras because paras can recruit more muscles when pushing a chair (using abs or flicking with forearms) or transfering (triceps and full range of latissimus dorsi). This takes some stress off of the shoulders.

                  A good way to visibly take note of this is to look at quads and paras in manual chairs. Most quads tend to have more rounded shoulders because they have underdeveloped upper backs, simply because they are not worked on a regular basis (but so do a lot of guys who JUST bench all the time). Back and rot cuff work will strengthen the upper back and "pull" those shoulders back. This will not only reduce shoulder injuries but will also help posture.

                  That was really long and I really hope it made sense!! Tell me if it didnt and I will correct myself!!

                  -Jeff.
                  Last edited by musclebeach; 26 Jul 2006, 12:37 AM.
                  IMPOSSIBLE IS JUST A BIG WORD THROWN AROUND BY SMALL MEN WHO FIND IT EASIER TO LIVE IN THE WORLD THEY'VE BEEN GIVEN THAN TO EXPLORE THE POWER THEY HAVE TO CHANGE IT. IMPOSSIBLE IS NOT A FACT. IT'S AN OPINION. IMPOSSIBLE IS NOT A DECLARATION. IT'S A DARE. IMPOSSIBLE IS POTENTIAL. IMPOSSIBLE IS TEMPORARY.

                  IMPOSSIBLE IS NOTHING.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by musclebeach
                    \Unfortunetly this wont work for him since he is looking for more endurance stamina. However, I cycle this in and love it. Have you ever tried 10x10 on auxilary lifts? For example, hit up the benchpress with a lower rep scheme (powerlifting program for example) then go to the bench machine or get some dumbbells and do 10x10. Get the fuckin trashcan ready.

                    I actually just finished 5x5 for bi/tri. 75# DB preacher curls combo 135# BB lying tri ext. Thats what you mean by heavy.


                    -Jeff.
                    YUP I DO 10X10 AT THE END[LAST MONTH] OF MY 5X5 CYCLE. the 5x5 is incredible. great for sci. it develops strenth, bulk and power. very nice.

                    i recommended this to him because it sounds like he needs strength and to bulk up then to cut w/ emphasis on cardio and anerobic training.
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                    John@bike-on.com
                    c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
                    sponsored handcycle racer

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                      #25
                      Cycles

                      Musclebeach, Fuente,

                      What do you mean by cycles?
                      Do either of you play a sport?

                      Terrific discussion! I don't have a clue, but this helps fine tune my son's efforts at the gym.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        the mom, in this discussion a cycle is the length of time we stick to a certaine routine. example--3 mth bulking cycle or 4 mth cutting cycle.
                        i do a 5x5 bulking cycle in the winter w/ a much higher than normal protein supplementation then in march or april i cut my protein back a bit and do a cutting or leaning cycle through the summer. hope this helps

                        i play quad rugby
                        Bike-on.com rep
                        John@bike-on.com
                        c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
                        sponsored handcycle racer

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                          #27
                          Fuente,
                          Thank you! I'll see what he thinks about the creatine.

                          Do you all have a weight lifting cycle also? How does that work?


                          Musclebeach,
                          You can't imagine the common sense that we have overlooked in your statement
                          "Also I believe quads need more rot cuff work than paras because paras can recruit more muscles when pushing a chair (using abs or "flicking with forearms") or transfering (triceps and full range of latissimus dorsi). This takes some stress off of the shoulders."

                          Flicking with forearms is huge!!!!! Early on, an able bodied trainer showed my son how to develop his inner arm, but his comment was that it was "just for looks and served no real functional purpose." In the interest of time available time in the day, this area of development has never been pursued, but in revisiting this, the benefits are so obvious in pushing (something AB's would not get) and finger strength development. Got to help that rugby game, too!!

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by fuentejps
                            YUP I DO 10X10 AT THE END[LAST MONTH] OF MY 5X5 CYCLE. the 5x5 is incredible. great for sci. it develops strenth, bulk and power. very nice.

                            i recommended this to him because it sounds like he needs strength and to bulk up then to cut w/ emphasis on cardio and anerobic training.
                            By the way, I think we need to lift together!!

                            I understand what you are saying now. You are very right, 5x5 is amazing for SCIs (ABs too). However, it is not a great place to start for someone just getting in because since they will be dealing with heavy weight it will put a lot of stress on the joints, stress these joints arent use to handling yet. Another reason not to start heavy is it is best to learn the movement with lighter weight in order to train your body to use good form once you get to those higher weights.

                            A good starting spot for male athletes who havent lifted on a consistent basis is 3x10 (this is a very general starting point). 12/10/8 and 12/12/10/10/8 are also good starting points.

                            Originally posted by The Mom
                            Musclebeach, Fuente,

                            What do you mean by cycles?
                            Do either of you play a sport?

                            Terrific discussion! I don't have a clue, but this helps fine tune my son's efforts at the gym.
                            I bodybuild (doing a contest early fall and nationals next year). I am also starting racing when my race chair gets here.

                            Fuente hit it right on the money. I'll go into a little more detail however.

                            The body is remarkable, it has the ability to adapt to many situations in a relatively short time. However, it stops having reason to adapt it stops. Therefore we must keep it guessing so it continues to adapt (in this case build mass, strength, and power for wheelchair use; either in sport or daily life). This is the reason we cycle programs. In general you should change your program every 4-8 weeks (the exception is if you are still seeing gains). You really have to feel your body when deciding whether or not to change. For example some muscles will keep growing if you did 3x10 forever (forearms and abs, calves too if your AB). I do 3x10 on biceps and have been for the past 6 months probably, but I am still seeing my weights go up consistently and increased size.

                            Lets say you are on a bulking cycle (gaining weight, mostly muscle, hopefully, and some fat, probably). Bodybuilders are in this phase most of the time, but they are not doing 3x10 for 6, 8, 10 months, whatever time. They may do 12/12/10/10/8 for 6 weeks then drop down to 10/8/8/8/6 for 6 more weeks then drop to 5x5 for another 6 weeks. They are keeping it varied to continue breaking down muscle. While bulking you need to be consuming lots of calories so that when you do break muscle down those tears can be regrown. This is why many people supplement with protien (protein builds tissue). You can builk cleanly (this is what I do), it is much harder because you are getting 3500-4000 calories that are clean (clean meaning high carbs/pro and low fat, i do 50%/30%/20% carb/pro/fat respectively). You can make very clean gains (little fat) off of this, but the diet is harder obviously, but you also wont need to cut for as long or often (I stay at high 5 - low 6 year round on this diet).

                            Originally posted by The Mom
                            Flicking with forearms is huge!!!!! Early on, an able bodied trainer showed my son how to develop his inner arm, but his comment was that it was "just for looks and served no real functional purpose." In the interest of time available time in the day, this area of development has never been pursued, but in revisiting this, the benefits are so obvious in pushing (something AB's would not get) and finger strength development. Got to help that rugby game, too!!
                            It is huge, I can wheel around keeping my elbows in place and just flicking my wrists to move. The flicking of the wrist is controlled by the extensors (outside of forearm) and the finger grip is the flexors (inside of forearms). I assume you are talking about the inner forearm, right? For most efficient pushing forearm extensors/flexors, anterior deltoid, triceps, and abs should be concentrated on. Dont just work these muscles or you WILL injure yourself eventually. A good balanced program, cycling/dieting properly, training safely, and cardio will do wonders for anybody. Cardio and diet are many times overlooked when people want to build muscle.

                            Hope that helped some. Sorry ahead of time, I just type and assume people know the concepts Im talking about. Even in person people have to stop me and say "what is that/this." Its not a big deal, just tell me to explain and I will!!

                            -Jeff.
                            IMPOSSIBLE IS JUST A BIG WORD THROWN AROUND BY SMALL MEN WHO FIND IT EASIER TO LIVE IN THE WORLD THEY'VE BEEN GIVEN THAN TO EXPLORE THE POWER THEY HAVE TO CHANGE IT. IMPOSSIBLE IS NOT A FACT. IT'S AN OPINION. IMPOSSIBLE IS NOT A DECLARATION. IT'S A DARE. IMPOSSIBLE IS POTENTIAL. IMPOSSIBLE IS TEMPORARY.

                            IMPOSSIBLE IS NOTHING.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by The mom
                              Fuente,
                              Thank you! I'll see what he thinks about the creatine.
                              !
                              i dont like creatine. it will give him the shits in the higher doses that are effective. i mentioned protein supps;./ very important.

                              im not sure what u mean by weight lifting cycle???????we are talking about weight lifting.
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                              John@bike-on.com
                              c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
                              sponsored handcycle racer

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by musclebeach
                                By the way, I think we need to lift together!!

                                -Jeff.
                                right on, i agree.
                                Bike-on.com rep
                                John@bike-on.com
                                c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
                                sponsored handcycle racer

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