Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Can FES Bikes build muscle back?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Can FES Bikes build muscle back?

    Did a search on the subject couldn't find much info. If legs are atrophied can FES Bikes build muscle back in legs? What are the benefits of FES as opposed to a Standing frame? Will insurance cover a standing frame before it covers a FES bike? Which of these are most beneficial to health? Lots of questions! Thanks in advance.

  • #2
    When a muscle is totally atrophied then it converted to a mass of fat and proteins. It depends on how far the atrophy is. It will take a lot of time and effort to build up the muscle with FES when the atrophy is in a late stage.

    A standing frame and a FES bike benefit in there own way. The stress on your joints are higher in a standing frame and you prevent possible arthrosis.

    Its also hard to answer your last question what is more beneficial to health but i guess its a standing frame because you are having a whole new posture as a wheelchair user and you can train your blood circulation in a passive way.Therefore i recommend you a standing frame.

    KK11

    Comment


    • #3
      FES/Standing frame

      I would agree, both have their benefits. Standing frame promotes natural posture and being vertical is how our bodies are built to function (ie the whole bowel thing).FES in conjunction with pedaling will promote muscle gains in the legs(especially if you have any firing of muscle naturally). Do both if time and money permit. I don't know your situation or injury I am incomplete and have seen many gains. I wish the same for you!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes, and if you can FES is the most beneficial

        Yes, regular use of a FES bike (three times a week (every other day)), will restore muscle mass to the legs. My first experience was from 1986 to 1989 as part of one of the REGYS research programs. This was at Providence Hospital in Everett Washington. I started out as a 130 pound bird legged quad and in three years weighed 160 pounds and had the thighs of a track star (hey, my family told me so). The majority of weight was added to my butt and thighs. My calves saw a limited degree of improvement. When I started the program I was recovering from my first pressure sore at my right ischial. That added padding lasted me 20 years.

        In 2009, I was in the hospital for surgery and caught pneumonia, by the time I had recovered I had lost over 25 pounds, had the legs of a bird again, and a pressures sore in the same spot as 23 years earlier. In 2012, I found a gym called Pushing Boundaries in Redmond Washington offering FES therapy; they have the RT 300, and the ERGYS bikes. After six months of regular exercise on the RT300, I had added 1 inch to the diameter of my thighs. The new machines are more sensitive and can be used with more people. The calf muscles can be stimulated now, which I find especially rewarding. Their RT 300 also has a arm ergometer option. Using it once a week for a month restored use in my arthritic left shoulder and I no longer have any pain in it.

        There are number of other very important benefits from a regular FES exercise routine. First, a general improvement in health. I'm never ill while exercising regularly. Healthier skin and longer sitting time. It provides an excellent cardiovascular workout. And, I sleep better at night.

        Regarding a standing frame/table a used one can be found for an affordable price, but before purchasing one have an evaluation done first. I myself find it too painful for my feet. After 5 minutes my feet hurt for a week.

        There's one other therapeutic tool to consider, vibration therapy. This is what the astronauts use on the Space Station to maintain bone density and muscle tone. The unit can be incorporated with a standing table. The gym I go too has one.

        As for insurance and coverage, I don't have a clue.

        Good luck.

        Comment


        • #5
          Awesome news. Thanks guys for the info. I'm 2 years post w/ a baclofen pump and my legs are already very small. Starting more rehab next week to try fes bike and standing frame. Only worried about BP and passing out since I haven't stood in so long. I have blood pressure medicine called midodrine and a binder for when I first start standing. Anything else that will help?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Southpaw View Post
            Awesome news. Thanks guys for the info. I'm 2 years post w/ a baclofen pump and my legs are already very small. Starting more rehab next week to try fes bike and standing frame. Only worried about BP and passing out since I haven't stood in so long. I have blood pressure medicine called midodrine and a binder for when I first start standing. Anything else that will help?
            I would take the midodrine about 20min before standing, use the binder, and drink a lot of fluids/water. Start out small. You may only be able to tolerate a few minutes upright. It's ok, just work your way up to longer periods of time. I know you can wrap your legs with ace bandages too, but that's a lot of work. Watch your blood pressure with the fes bike as well. It could go high or low.
            Aerodynamically, the bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly, but the bumble bee doesn't know that, so it goes on flying anyways--Mary Kay Ash

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Noel View Post
              Yes, regular use of a FES bike (three times a week (every other day)), will restore muscle mass to the legs. My first experience was from 1986 to 1989 as part of one of the REGYS research programs. This was at Providence Hospital in Everett Washington. I started out as a 130 pound bird legged quad and in three years weighed 160 pounds and had the thighs of a track star (hey, my family told me so). The majority of weight was added to my butt and thighs. My calves saw a limited degree of improvement. When I started the program I was recovering from my first pressure sore at my right ischial. That added padding lasted me 20 years.

              In 2009, I was in the hospital for surgery and caught pneumonia, by the time I had recovered I had lost over 25 pounds, had the legs of a bird again, and a pressures sore in the same spot as 23 years earlier. In 2012, I found a gym called Pushing Boundaries in Redmond Washington offering FES therapy; they have the RT 300, and the ERGYS bikes. After six months of regular exercise on the RT300, I had added 1 inch to the diameter of my thighs. The new machines are more sensitive and can be used with more people. The calf muscles can be stimulated now, which I find especially rewarding. Their RT 300 also has a arm ergometer option. Using it once a week for a month restored use in my arthritic left shoulder and I no longer have any pain in it.

              There are number of other very important benefits from a regular FES exercise routine. First, a general improvement in health. I'm never ill while exercising regularly. Healthier skin and longer sitting time. It provides an excellent cardiovascular workout. And, I sleep better at night.

              Regarding a standing frame/table a used one can be found for an affordable price, but before purchasing one have an evaluation done first. I myself find it too painful for my feet. After 5 minutes my feet hurt for a week.

              There's one other therapeutic tool to consider, vibration therapy. This is what the astronauts use on the Space Station to maintain bone density and muscle tone. The unit can be incorporated with a standing table. The gym I go too has one.

              As for insurance and coverage, I don't have a clue.

              Good luck.
              Do you have any pics of the differences? I'm going to test this out with taking pics and measurements to see gains. I'm sure everybody responds differently to it.
              Aerodynamically, the bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly, but the bumble bee doesn't know that, so it goes on flying anyways--Mary Kay Ash

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by november View Post
                Do you have any pics of the differences? I'm going to test this out with taking pics and measurements to see gains. I'm sure everybody responds differently to it.
                Sorry, I don't have any pictures. I measure my legs once a month. From what I witnessed, for people that can tolerate the FES stimulation, it will restore muscle mass. It's just a question of how much a person pushes them self. It takes dedication and time. As I recall, when I was part of the research program there were about 20 of us participating and every one regained healthy normal looking thighs. The older bikes didn't have a way of stimulating the calf muscles so they still looked depleted. I am looking forward to seeing what I can achieve with the RT 300, as I mentioned previously it is sensitive enough to work the calves and other small muscle groups.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Got in the standing frame today. Took midodrine in the morning and right before I stood. Ace wraps + binder. The therapist told me I wouldn't be able to stand all the way up without passing out. I was confident and feeling good so I said let's go all the way up. Was standing for about 30 seconds bc she had another appt. standing felt GREAT. Really hope my insurance will cover a glider.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Southpaw View Post
                    I'm 2 years post w/ a baclofen pump and my legs are already very small. Starting more rehab next week to try fes bike and standing frame. Only worried about BP and passing out since I haven't stood in so long.
                    Start out slow and allow your body to become accustomed to standing again. Just remember good old common sense, if you start feeling lightheaded sit down.

                    Originally posted by Southpaw View Post
                    I have blood pressure medicine called midodrine and a binder for when I first start standing. Anything else that will help?
                    I thought the FDA banned midodrine due to its side effects. If you don't mind me asking, do you have a health problem why did they put you on midodrine, or is this a preexisting problem? Low blood pressure is common for a quadriplegic, mine ranges from 80/50 to 95/60 on average.

                    It is recommended that quadriplegics and higher paraplegics wear an abdominal binder whenever they're up in their chair. You are obviously already aware of how it helps to maintain your blood pressure, but there are also some other very important reasons for wearing one. The correct a binder will also help you maintain proper posture. Without it there is a high probability that a quadriplegic will develop a curvature of the spine while sitting. This in turn causes a person to sit unevenly and eventually compromise the skin. The binder also prevents your internal organs from shifting from your upper chest cavity to your belly. You may have noticed that older SCI people have a large appearing belly. Besides being a less flattering figure, the shift in your organs puts pressure on the bladder making it difficult to drain while sitting upright. In my opinion, the best choice in binders are the models with the stays in the back for lumbar support.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Noel View Post
                      Sorry, I don't have any pictures. I measure my legs once a month. From what I witnessed, for people that can tolerate the FES stimulation, it will restore muscle mass. It's just a question of how much a person pushes them self. It takes dedication and time. As I recall, when I was part of the research program there were about 20 of us participating and every one regained healthy normal looking thighs. The older bikes didn't have a way of stimulating the calf muscles so they still looked depleted. I am looking forward to seeing what I can achieve with the RT 300, as I mentioned previously it is sensitive enough to work the calves and other small muscle groups.
                      Thanks. Was it hard for you to tolerate it...if so, why?

                      Originally posted by Southpaw View Post
                      Got in the standing frame today. Took midodrine in the morning and right before I stood. Ace wraps + binder. The therapist told me I wouldn't be able to stand all the way up without passing out. I was confident and feeling good so I said let's go all the way up. Was standing for about 30 seconds bc she had another appt. standing felt GREAT. Really hope my insurance will cover a glider.
                      That's great! Sometimes I have to go up and down several times in one session because my blood pressure drops and I feel crappy. I figure something is better than nothing. There are times I'm up for 20+min and others that I probably don't last a min.

                      Originally posted by Noel View Post
                      Start out slow and allow your body to become accustomed to standing again. Just remember good old common sense, if you start feeling lightheaded sit down.



                      I thought the FDA banned midodrine due to its side effects. If you don't mind me asking, do you have a health problem why did they put you on midodrine, or is this a preexisting problem? Low blood pressure is common for a quadriplegic, mine ranges from 80/50 to 95/60 on average.

                      It is recommended that quadriplegics and higher paraplegics wear an abdominal binder whenever they're up in their chair. You are obviously already aware of how it helps to maintain your blood pressure, but there are also some other very important reasons for wearing one. The correct a binder will also help you maintain proper posture. Without it there is a high probability that a quadriplegic will develop a curvature of the spine while sitting. This in turn causes a person to sit unevenly and eventually compromise the skin. The binder also prevents your internal organs from shifting from your upper chest cavity to your belly. You may have noticed that older SCI people have a large appearing belly. Besides being a less flattering figure, the shift in your organs puts pressure on the bladder making it difficult to drain while sitting upright. In my opinion, the best choice in binders are the models with the stays in the back for lumbar support.
                      Midodrine is still on the market. I have to use it. Fluids and a binder aren't enough at times. My bp is probably 80/50 or 95/60 WITH midodrine. That's a decent bp on me. It's normally lower which is ok unless I'm symptomatic such as faint/dizzy/shortness of breath/overall exhausted feeling.
                      Aerodynamically, the bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly, but the bumble bee doesn't know that, so it goes on flying anyways--Mary Kay Ash

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No health problems. I asked the doc for midodrine and he prescribed it. Must not be banned.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by november View Post
                          Thanks. Was it hard for you to tolerate it...if so, why?
                          It's all a question of how much sensation a person still has. I'm generally fine riding the bike. I am a C5/6 and the sensation in my lower extremities is deep so the electrical stimulation doesn't bother me there. However, I do have partial sensation in the shoulders and parts of the arm where the electrodes are placed. Because of this, we have to ramp the stimulation up slowly. At first it actually feels nice but it can get very uncomfortable. I have the settings for my arms set lower than my legs, yet, there are times that when it reaches 100% it feels like having your finger in a light bulb socket multiplied by 10. It can really hurt. In sensitive areas electrode placement is very important.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have used my Ergys 2 bike approximately 3 times a week for 26 years. The only periods of time I had to stop was during my 3 pregnancies. During those times I lost significant muscle mass but I was always able to build it back. I love my bike and I have been extremely healthy since my SCI. I like the standing frame to improve bone density and increase core strength. The bike is my favorite because of the cardiovascular workout!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I don't really visit here as much as I should. I actually came on here to see if there was any information on hand e-stimming devices since Bioness is not supporting my device after July.


                              I will speak strictly from experience. No medical knowledge. I have an Ergys. My first ride was 8 minutes long and my pulse was crazy. Can't remember the numbers, but it was crazy. I ride for two hours now. 60 minutes at low resistance, high cadence usually get around 11 miles. Following 60 minutes at the maximum resistance the bike allows me, this changes a little because of age of electrodes, electrode placement and I'm sure a bunch of reasons only the gremlins know. Usually get another 3-3.5 miles, but it is at a heavy load. My feet often hurt when I'm finished. I do this every-other day, mostly 3 times a week.


                              I recently hung up a simplified highway map of the U.S. so I can track my ride distance in a more visual form. I agree with all the benefits described here. There is a brain thing that happens that totally trumps all of these benefits, I'm sure someone can tell you about endorphins, I was a boiler plant technician, I'll just say it makes you feel better, a lot better.
                              please . . .test what you already know; and give us what you have. we may not be dying, but we certainly are not living either

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X