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Inclined Bed Therapy (IBT) How is everyone?

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    #61
    Originally posted by Andrew K Fletcher View Post
    Try replying to the paper I just posted !
    Lets start with the background information at the start of the paper:
    "All volunteers had no medical history of acute or chronic disorders."

    Remember that we all have chronic or acute disorders and hence I am reminded of apples and oranges when aplying the conclusions to SCI.

    What your paper concludes is that:

    The cerebrospinal fluid flow is a molecular motion as a consequence of the gravity force and the Brownian movements. The Brownian motions are the driving forces for the cerebrospinal fluid bulk flow directed upwardly. The gravity force is the driving force for the cerebrospinal fluid bulk flow directed downwardly.

    It clearly states in the discussion section that density changes cause movement of CSF before its conclusion states that Gravity causes the downward flow. Of course gravity causes things to move downward but the author has forgotten that Galileo showed that gravity causes downward acceleration on objects of different mass equally. It is the density differences therefore that are the primary cause of differential downward and upward flow despite the authors conclusion that it is gravity.
    The paper does not suggest that being inclined improves circulation of CSF. If you accept the authors claim that gravity causes downaward flow, after all gravity does cause things to move down, then increasing the impact of gravity by inclining somebody would cause increased downward flow of CSF. However inclining them would not necessarily cause increased Browninan motion and therefore not cause an euivalent increase in upward motion. Using the authors conclusion as a basis for reasoning: Being inclined would cause icreased downward flow but not directly cause increased upward flow. This does not equate to increasing circulation as only one direction is increased by applying the author's conclusion. Clearly if only one direction is increased then this would cause an accumulation of fluid at the lower extremities which is what many people with impaired circulation expereince as a result of being upright for long periods of time. Hence your claim that being on an incline increases circulation is unsubstantiated by this paper.

    The you tube that you link to is a video posted by yourself. Citing youself as objective evidence for your own hypothesis about inclined beds is hardly authoritative, especially when the video actually demonstrates the priciple behind a siphon - fluid flow in a tube, in this case initiated by density differences and perpetuated due to the cohesive nature of water. It does not tell us anything about gravity and SCI.
    Why not try something more credible, like telling the Israelis and Palestinians that inclined beds are the solution to the Middle East Crisis.

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      #62
      you know what will REALLY cure spinal cord injury? Using inclined bed therapy while drinking human breast milk!
      Last edited by anban; 9 May 2013, 7:35 PM.

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        #63
        a match made on the interwebs!! happiness is so wonderful
        Originally posted by anban View Post
        you know what REALLY cure spinal cord injury? Using inclined bed therapy while drinking human breast milk!
        "Smells like death in a bucket of chicken!"
        http://www.elportavoz.com/

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          #64
          This guy is a nut job. That's my exact clinical diagnosis.

          p.s. Chad has slept on an inclined bed for 25 years and 25 years later, he is still just paralyzed as he ever was.
          Wife of Chad (C4/5 since 1988), mom of a great teenager

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            #65
            Adrian thanks for your reply.

            The video shown shows clearly how a downward flowing liquid initiates a return flow. There is no need to hypothesise that Brownian Motion is required to generate a return flow, because BM is multidirectional and totally random so therefore cannot be considered as generating a return flow. It is the molecular drag from the downward flowing CSF which generates the pull required to circulate the CSF. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNJHChtHklg

            The author does not consider the cooling and density changes that must take place where evaporation occurs, I.E. in the nasal passage and the rest of respiratory tract. Also consider the evaporation taking place from the eyes and skin. In trees for example 98% of all the water at the leaves evaporates, this means that the sap has been concentrated by the evaporation by the same amount. This gives us a denser sap at the top of the tree, just as the evaporation from the respiratory tract changes the density of the capillary blood that flows through the lungs.

            I agree that it is the density differences that cause the flow and return flow.

            I do not agree that we can increase the downflow using IBT and not increase the return flow.

            Varicose veins deflate when using IBT over months. This alone is a self evident truth that demonstrates a change in pressure inside the venous return. The additional tension that is applied to the blood by the flow of denser blood through the heart and into, predominantly, the main artery where it is influenced by gravity will also act upon the vessel walls drawing them in as shown in the video using soft wall tubing.

            As for accumulation of fluids in the ankles and feet and wrists and hands, the opposite affect is observed with edema migrating back into the circulation because then higher than normal pressure inside the veins that caused the fluid to migrate towards the tissue is now drawn back into the venous return, where it is excreted in the urine after filtration by the kidneys. If you think about this for a minute, we have blood passing through the kidneys, which filter out salts and other substances, making the blood less dense before it enters the venous return.
            Find us on Facebook using inclined bed therapy as a search term.
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              #66
              Originally posted by Jim View Post
              Andrew, if you believe so much in your theory why haven't you done what Dr. Young suggested 10 years ago?

              Without scientific proof IBT will never be taken seriously.
              Because it isn't easy to convince people to try sleeping on an angle. They tend to come up with all sorts of excuses not to try it rather than experimenting for themselves. Just like the majority of people posting on this thread.
              Find us on Facebook using inclined bed therapy as a search term.
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                #67
                Can you explain exactly how Chad's bed is tilted? Is it just the upper body that is raised and the legs flat? Are the legs raised even? If the bed is at a complete angle, how much higher at the head end is it compared to the foot end?
                Find us on Facebook using inclined bed therapy as a search term.
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                  #68
                  Originally posted by anban View Post
                  you know what will REALLY cure spinal cord injury? Using inclined bed therapy while drinking human breast milk!
                  What is your understanding of Inclined Bed Therapy if you don't mind me asking, given your comment?
                  Find us on Facebook using inclined bed therapy as a search term.
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                    #69
                    No beds for sale here, I don't sell anything ok is that plain enough for you?
                    Find us on Facebook using inclined bed therapy as a search term.
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                      #70
                      perhaps you can give us a list of people who have had their SCI cured using IBT?

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                        #71
                        There is one big problem in this thread. You cant claim or take the word "cure" in here.

                        Andrew,
                        I dont want to say that everything you are talking about is wrong and dumb but I have to say that probably the only reason , people benefit of IBT is the fact that they feel better in general when they do this. Its also hard for me to believe that there is a medical based effect that got these people better. But if you believe in your theory then go ahead , because everyone should do things which he or her believes in.....

                        KK11

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                          #72
                          KK1 I can't remember me saying cure but I can remember saying significant reversal of spinal cord injury using Inclined Bed Therapy. How many people have been kept on a flat bed for weeks / months after initial injury? Is this still normal practice? And if not why not?
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                            #73
                            Originally posted by nrf View Post
                            perhaps you can give us a list of people who have had their SCI cured using IBT?
                            Perhaps these people who have tested IBT for spinal cord injury have already shared their results on the Carecure Forum along with others who tilted their beds and began to report significant improvements before the moderators decided to lock the threads and the forum bullies took their toll on people trying to be heard.

                            Try to ignore the rants when searching for results here and look for those who actually tried IBT rather than Andy-who said he had just to disrupt my research, even though he has never slept on an incline bed and probably never will! Right Andy?

                            A lot of people have hurled hateful insults and I can understand this because if I was spinal cord injured, I would probably be bitter and closed minded too.

                            However the truth about myself is somewhat different to the obscure picture painted by the minority here, but go ahead and form your own opinions, but please don't try to discourage others from daring to explore where some will never think to entertain the possibilities.

                            I have since received a response from the Author of the paper on CSF flow.
                            Find us on Facebook using inclined bed therapy as a search term.
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                              #74
                              Andrew, what is your registered corporate address and name?

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                                #75
                                Still at it after feeling so welcome here, eh? Interesting

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