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How to use 1.5" wide FrogLegs soft roll casters on a TiLite chair

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    #76
    Originally posted by SCI_OTR View Post
    I should qualify that I am not sure that this would work on TiLite chairs with adjustable caster angles. The caster stem stud which mounts into the frame on the ZR, TR, or TX can be backed out ~1/4". The additional length is required because the ProSpin/Crossfire short fork does not have a recess on the underside for the lock nut like the TiLite fork.





    It was pure luck that I discovered that this could be done. It really transformed the stability of my ZRc and keeps my feet from popping off of the footrest over bumps. I had two endos the first month I had the chair and was popping mini-wheelies all the time. I haven't had a problem since I installed the ProSpin forks and 4"x1.5" FrogLegs aluminum soft rolls.

    I which I knew an online source where end users could get the Invacare/TopEnd fork.
    HI SCI_OTR.

    Correct me if i`m wrong.
    So looking at the pic, if you take out the little bolt which is in the top, could you loosen the stem fork out?

    I`m asking you this because you know that the ZR it`s a serius option for my new chair and i asked time ago to Mark Westphal for the posibility to take it out, for change it for a M12 titanium bolt- Flanged hex and put it with a spring washer for don`t get loose itself.
    He was who told me the diameter( 12mm) but he said he didn't know the lenght of the stem. Do you know it?

    He told me that the stem it`s fixed and if i take out i will lose the warranty of the chair, something that i don`t understand why, but if i tell you the true it`s not something that i will get worried about, because i know that it`s a chair with no problems.

    So i could take the stem out if i loosen the little bolt or it`s fixed like Mark told me?

    Comment


      #77
      Originally posted by totoL1 View Post
      HI SCI_OTR.

      Correct me if i`m wrong.
      So looking at the pic, if you take out the little bolt which is in the top, could you loosen the stem fork out?

      I`m asking you this because you know that the ZR it`s a serius option for my new chair and i asked time ago to Mark Westphal for the posibility to take it out, for change it for a M12 titanium bolt- Flanged hex and put it with a spring washer for don`t get loose itself.
      He was who told me the diameter( 12mm) but he said he didn't know the lenght of the stem. Do you know it?

      He told me that the stem it`s fixed and if i take out i will lose the warranty of the chair, something that i don`t understand why, but if i tell you the true it`s not something that i will get worried about, because i know that it`s a chair with no problems.

      So i could take the stem out if i loosen the little bolt or it`s fixed like Mark told me?
      I did the SCI_OTR caster fork modification to my ZR. The stem bolt is threaded into the caster housing; it can't be pulled or loosened out. To make the switch to the wider Top End forks (to accommodate 1.5" casters, before TiLite finally offered this option), the stem bolt had to be extracted about a 1/4" of so.

      If I were you I would leave it as is. If your goal is to save a few precious grams by replacing it with titanium bolt, I don't think it's worth the effort. The bolt is packed very securely into the caster housing and I can understand why TiLite would void the warranty of end-users messing about with it and potentially compromising its integrity.

      I know you're talented with the mechanics involved here, but again, if your only goal is to shave off a gram of weight (if that), I think it's a pointless exercise and creates the potential for opening an unnecessary can of worms.
      stephen@bike-on.com

      Comment


        #78
        It is difficult to remove without damaging, but it will unscrew from the frame (I've actually replaced my original stem studs due to corrosion).

        The wide portion is 1/2" diameter and approximately 45 mm long (I don't know the pitch of the threads). The 11 mm long portion holds the 3/8-24 lock nut for the fork.

        When I originally did the swap, I used vice grips to unscrew the stem studs from the frame, then used my Dremel to smooth out any tool markings. Any corrosion protection used on the stem stud was lost in the process, however. Road salt and water worked its way in which lead to the corrosion.

        I installed the replacement stem studs without scratching them by putting on the lock nut for the fork, then turning the stem stud with a wrench. You could probably use a similar technique to remove the stem studs if you can find two thin 3/8-24 nuts which will both fit on the 11 mm long section (a second nut would be needed to keep the other from loosening if it is being turned counter clockwise with a wrench).

        Also, keep in mind that the underside of the TiLite fork has a recessed portion where the lock nut fits.


        Comment


          #79
          Original author's note...

          To anyone reading this thread since it was resurrected, it is no longer necessary to use the Invacare/Top End fork in order to use Frog Legs soft roll casters. TiLite has since widened their own double bearing fork. Frog Legs soft roll casters will fit on the new fork with no modifications.

          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by stephen212 View Post
            I did the SCI_OTR caster fork modification to my ZR. The stem bolt is threaded into the caster housing; it can't be pulled or loosened out. To make the switch to the wider Top End forks (to accommodate 1.5" casters, before TiLite finally offered this option), the stem bolt had to be extracted about a 1/4" of so.

            If I were you I would leave it as is. If your goal is to save a few precious grams by replacing it with titanium bolt, I don't think it's worth the effort. The bolt is packed very securely into the caster housing and I can understand why TiLite would void the warranty of end-users messing about with it and potentially compromising its integrity.

            I know you're talented with the mechanics involved here, but again, if your only goal is to shave off a gram of weight (if that), I think it's a pointless exercise and creates the potential for opening an unnecessary can of worms.
            I`m confused, if you said that it can`t loosend out, How you extracted 1/4"?
            And a few grames here and another few there are a lot of grames at the finally.
            That stem and the nut probably weight about 80 grames each side, if you replace for titanium the two stems will weight like one of the olders.

            If i get a ZR i assure you that it will go down in weight a pound as like comes from factory.

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by SCI_OTR View Post
              It is difficult to remove without damaging, but it will unscrew from the frame (I've actually replaced my original stem studs due to corrosion).

              The wide portion is 1/2" diameter and approximately 45 mm long (I don't know the pitch of the threads). The 11 mm long portion holds the 3/8-24 lock nut for the fork.

              When I originally did the swap, I used vice grips to unscrew the stem studs from the frame, then used my Dremel to smooth out any tool markings. Any corrosion protection used on the stem stud was lost in the process, however. Road salt and water worked its way in which lead to the corrosion.

              I installed the replacement stem studs without scratching them by putting on the lock nut for the fork, then turning the stem stud with a wrench. You could probably use a similar technique to remove the stem studs if you can find two thin 3/8-24 nuts which will both fit on the 11 mm long section (a second nut would be needed to keep the other from loosening if it is being turned counter clockwise with a wrench).

              Also, keep in mind that the underside of the TiLite fork has a recessed portion where the lock nut fits.
              O.K, so you have removed the stem, i thought that the stem was fixed with some special glue.
              So there is no problem for removed with a vice grips?
              If you do it again put some rubber of an old tube between the vice grips and your stem for don`t do tool marks.

              Thanks for the info.

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by totoL1 View Post
                I`m confused, if you said that it can`t loosend out, How you extracted 1/4"?
                And a few grames here and another few there are a lot of grames at the finally.
                That stem and the nut probably weight about 80 grames each side, if you replace for titanium the two stems will weight like one of the olders.

                If i get a ZR i assure you that it will go down in weight a pound as like comes from factory.
                I brought my ZR in to my local bike shop to do the modification. At first, the mechanic tried pulling the stem bolt out before realizing that it was threaded into to the housing. So that is what I meant when I said that it couldn't be loosened (wriggled) out.

                As far as weight goes, maybe someone at TiLite could actually weigh a stem bolt for you so you can make a determination as to whether it makes sense to go through all the bother. (Chances are they won't do this, but you could purchase a replacement bolt separately and weigh it yourself.)
                stephen@bike-on.com

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by stephen212 View Post
                  I brought my ZR in to my local bike shop to do the modification. At first, the mechanic tried pulling the stem bolt out before realizing that it was threaded into to the housing. So that is what I meant when I said that it couldn't be loosened (wriggled) out.

                  As far as weight goes, maybe someone at TiLite could actually weigh a stem bolt for you so you can make a determination as to whether it makes sense to go through all the bother. (Chances are they won't do this, but you could purchase a replacement bolt separately and weigh it yourself.)
                  O.K i understand know.
                  I don`t need the weight of the bolt Stephen, because i`m not really interesting in the exactly weight, i will do it because i enjoy myself doing all these things in my free time, so if i enjoy myself and i lighten my chair, save it from rust, and give it a better appearance imo. Why no do it?

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by totoL1 View Post
                    O.K i understand know.
                    I don`t need the weight of the bolt Stephen, because i`m not really interesting in the exactly weight, i will do it because i enjoy myself doing all these things in my free time, so if i enjoy myself and i lighten my chair, save it from rust, and give it a better appearance imo. Why no do it?
                    I'm not sure why the bolt, presumably made from stainless steel, would rust or see how replacing it would improve the appearance of your chair, 'cause you can't see it. Do you have x-ray vision?
                    stephen@bike-on.com

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by totoL1 View Post
                      O.K, so you have removed the stem, i thought that the stem was fixed with some special glue.
                      So there is no problem for removed with a vice grips?
                      Just Loctite.
                      Originally posted by totoL1 View Post
                      If you do it again put some rubber of an old tube between the vice grips and your stem for don`t do tool marks.
                      Because of the Loctite and fine pitch of the threads, a lot of torque is required to turn the stem stud. There will be tool marks using vice grips. I have a set of vice grips with modified jaws (teeth ground down and coated with Plasti Dip). They would be useless in this application.

                      The clamping force required to grip the stem stud would also pinch right through any piece of tube.

                      Two thin nuts and a wrench would be the only way to remove it undamaged.

                      I'm with Stephen when it comes to the benefits of modifying it versus the risks. The benefits of being able to use 4x1.5" wide aluminum hub soft rolls on my chair far outweighed the risks of doing this once or twice. My chair was somewhat endo-prone and it was difficult to keep my feet on the footrest with the 4x.75 Volcanic roller blades I ordered on my chair.

                      On the chairs I spec'd out for veterans, however, I only did one chair with this modification (and not until after I had used mine for a year without any major problems and had replaced them once). Wth every other ZR or ZRa which had a 16-17" seat depth and an 85 degree front frame, I either recommended 5x1" billet aluminum soft rolls or going with a 1" longer frame to minimize the possibility of getting an endo-prone chair.

                      What you intend to do will require the bolt to be loosened/tightened on a much more frequent basis (e.g. whenever you clean or change the fork bearings). Titanium is a strong metal, but it isn't perfect. If the "bullet caster housing" were to crack or the bolt were to sheer off inside of it, you could have a major problem on your hands which would almost certainly not be covered under warranty.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        i've had froglegs on all my chairs and they have fallen apart but frogslegs have replaced the wheels everytime for me, free of charge so i'm still a fan of them.

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by stephen212 View Post
                          I'm not sure why the bolt, presumably made from stainless steel, would rust or see how replacing it would improve the appearance of your chair, 'cause you can't see it. Do you have x-ray vision?
                          If the bolt is made of stainless steel i can`t explain why the ZR that i`m going to try in my thread have got rust, maybe is the nut.

                          I think you would never understand me, I suppose that i`m a weird guy, jeje.
                          I`m going to try to explain it to you.
                          You wouldn`t see it, but i will see it everytime i pick up the chair into the car and i will know that i`ve got it.
                          My chair for me is very important, it`s like another of my clothes, and i like going with clean and good clothes, so the chair have to be the same.

                          An example is, what you prefer to wear? a cheap jeans or a Levi`s, i don`t know you, but i prefer Levi`s, why? if you can`t see the label which is in the back.

                          So you would not see it, but i will be happier knowing that i have it and i will feel more attractive going in a customized and clean ZR.

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by SCI_OTR View Post
                            Just Loctite.

                            Two thin nuts and a wrench would be the only way to remove it undamaged.

                            I'm with Stephen when it comes to the benefits of modifying it versus the risks. The benefits of being able to use 4x1.5" wide aluminum hub soft rolls on my chair far outweighed the risks of doing this once or twice. My chair was somewhat endo-prone and it was difficult to keep my feet on the footrest with the 4x.75 Volcanic roller blades I ordered on my chair.

                            What you intend to do will require the bolt to be loosened/tightened on a much more frequent basis (e.g. whenever you clean or change the fork bearings). Titanium is a strong metal, but it isn't perfect. If the "bullet caster housing" were to crack or the bolt were to sheer off inside of it, you could have a major problem on your hands which would almost certainly not be covered under warranty.
                            It`s not sure that i will change it, i`m only exploring the possibilities.
                            If the bearings of the forks are sealed i don`t think they will need to be replaced in a long time, i never do it in my GTX(they are sealed) with near 3 years old.
                            Maybe it will be a better option only change the nuts

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by totoL1 View Post
                              It`s not sure that i will change it, i`m only exploring the possibilities.
                              If the bearings of the forks are sealed i don`t think they will need to be replaced in a long time, i never do it in my GTX(they are sealed) with near 3 years old.
                              Maybe it will be a better option only change the nuts
                              The stem stud is not made of stainless steel--hence the corrosion.

                              The fork bearings are not exposed a much to the elements on a Quickie compared to TiLite or Top End. There is only a round disk above the bearings to protect them from the elements on the TiLite or Top End design.

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by SCI_OTR View Post
                                The stem stud is not made of stainless steel--hence the corrosion.
                                .
                                O.K If the stem isn`t made of stainless stell i will contemplate the possibility of change it for a titanium bolt if i buy a ZR.

                                The stem unscrew like normal bolts? , to the counter clockwise?

                                Comment

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