New Tilite ZRA chair! And what happens when it isn't "right"

[WADDiE]

i have a tilite zra and it was HORRIBLE for a year never felt right. i finally found a seating specialist who knew what she was doing. tore the whole chair apart changed everything even turned the brackets underneath upsidedown to get me lower to the floor. i thought spendfing money for a hard backrest from adirides was the way to go. but me being a c6 it was just pushing me foward had no balance. she swapped it out for an adjustable fabric backrest and wowww i feel "normal".

but, what im trying to say is dont give up on the zra. once its adjusted right its awesome! if you wanna get to seattle or even tacoma i bet she could fix you up


good luck

[CapnGimp]

Nah, you aren't being unreasonable. You pay thousands... you SHOULD expect EXACTLY what satisfies you. If it were ME, one more F0rk up and you can KEEP your chair, refund my money, PERIOD.
I hate to say I told ya so, but, I told ya so.... GO COLOURS, cheaper, better, better looking, all points ADJUSTABLE and mine only weighs 23 pounds WITH cusion. Best 999 bucks that I ever spent...that my Mom paid for, Bless her heart!
Colours....Colours....Colours (not the movie )
Best dang chair manufacturer OUT there!
I can not STAND being hosed when my hard earned money (or MomZ) is on the line. Heck, I can't stand looking a gift horse in the mouth and seeing food in his teeth
One word....
COLOURS


Sorry they hosed ya, hope you gettim set straight w/o too much pokin' and proddin' ... Aluminum...it's not just for bats anymore, it makes good persuaders AND wheelchairs in the hands of a competent user

[Hype62]

Only if every DME representative is as knowledgeable and competent as SCI_OTR, there wouldn't be that many unsatisfied customers out there. The manufacture makes the chair according to spec that were submitted to them, if the person specc'ing you messes up, then its over. Probably best to research and learn how to spec your own chair and order through sportaid or spinlife, and save a couple hundread, plus you would know what you are getting.

Hope everything works out for you at the end Nikki.

[nikki-k]

Hi!
Thx for the words from those who understand (erm...all of us? ).

I have the chair!
No pics yet, I really want it to be "done" when I finally do.

Now the fun stuff...

My A4, the one I despised so, actually wasn't bad by the time I got the new one. Having spent so much time scouring and picking up tips here, and having spent hours- easily in the 30 hour range- of tweaking that poor A-4 to get it so it fit right...well, let me say this: I now truly feel it is having a chair that, while an "off the rack" type of deal (compared to a Lasher type!), it comes down to how well you know HOW the chair works, and how each piece affects every other. Change COG 1/2", and you WILL have other things affected. Change cushions, and there go several settngs sometimes.

OK...so, new chair. The problems are all resolved...almost. TiLite sent the wrong brackets for the clothing guards. They sent ones with a pin that appears to require a hole in the frame to clamp down flush; I am guessing it is to hold that sucker in place. I think it does not need THAT much to hold the bracket, but ok. Proper brackets should be here next week, and with no rain in sight, no worries. Went with the larger plastic/carbon fibre ones BTW; exceed the wheel height just a tad, perfect!

Push handles: they are looking for some old style, but I already said screw it. I wil simply buy a pipe cutter, trim these down, take the cut ends, line them up, mark the tube of the handles, and then tap an al on th emarks, and drill new holes to hold them. Or, I might just move my A-4 ones over, since they have cotter pins to hold them- easy remove. Nice.

Black aluminum push rims, all good. Black Shox Firms, totally great. Going from a Keen 2.5" cushion (real squishy, flattens over time, prolly only 2" after 2 months use) with STF of front= 18", rear=14.5" to the ZRA with a 2.75" Stimulite Classic cushion...well, for now at least, to "sit" similarly, I lowered the rear STF on the new chair to 14", with front at 18". 1/2" dump change is not bad so far, might keep it.

Now the "grrr" things.

WTH are TiLite thinking with the front casters? Phillips head axles with soft metal? $&%*^*#Y# I want to take a socket wrench and smack the idiot whose idea that was. Save weight? THERE?!?!?!? Not sure what I will do with it. I used a phillips that was one size smaller than I should have used, gave a slight turn, and almost completely stripped the damn head. Loosening, not tightening by mistake even. BS, stupid...grrr!!! So, if someone actually reads this whole thing, and has encountered this, and has found a suitable replacement, PLEASE! let me know. Maybe a new thread? (yeah, think I will). My A-4: I love the axles. I dont care if the axles weight 1-2oz more than the TiLite ones. They are wicked solid, and I beat the heck out of them. Seriously beat them. And I simply use a socket on either side to remove/clean/replace the casters. Some lock-tite and I am very happy. No way are they coming off, and I seriously doubt the parts would break. Hardened steel or stainless for this, I dont know I would trust what is on there.

Next- tippers. TiLite has a max rear tipper FTW (FTW-hehehe, no not that acronym...Floor To Wheel, bottom of that wheel) is like 2-2.5" (policy, protects them from lawsuits I would gather). Basically, at the highest setting, I cannot even leave my house with the tippers down. The tippers affix down low, and a such, are difficult to reach to flip up and such. So, that means: time for some substitutes. No worries, unless th epeople who make them do not understand basic geometry. Or physics. OK, so only common sense is required... OK..now, my A-4 had a max of ~5". Still too low for me, so I simply removed the extensions completely, and then cut the main tube to allow me to use a FTW of 5.75", which is the max I can do, based on common sense (or basic geometry and physics ), without using an entirely new tube set. The TiLite tippers allow a max of... ~2.5". Yep, they actually engineered them to sit behind the back edge of the rear wheel enough, and the geometry of that only allows a max of that 2.5" before Whoops! You flip if you shorten the FTW by cutting tube and drilling new wheel axle holes, etc. So, the ONLY way to attain a higher FTW with the ZRA is to find new tipper tubes, or fashion a set. I told these guys (local DME) that I was using a FTW of 5.75" with my A-4 now, but that the tippers the local rep stuck on the demo were PERFECT. Did they get those? Hehehehe, no. They decided to fashion a set themselves. Oh, but they did so minus the basic geometry and physics knowledge (RE: common sense). I have the original TiLite tippers, and now this...frakenset. The frankenset tippers are 5.75" FTW. But, they do not extend back far enough to allow one to tip back onto them without flipping over completely. Basically like an FA handing you a pillow for a crash landing...to "ease the possible landing jostling." With the local Ti rep being MIA and who knows if he will even help now, and with TiLite having their protection policy (max 2.5"), I am now completely on my own. Hardware store trip today, and hopefully I will be able to use my chair!

I will post pics. They are very boring pics, especially after this thread. All black with a little titanium showing here n there, and Volcanic Glare rollerblade wheels on the front; they light up, but only when moving. So, nothing exciting while sitting still. Later today, tonight maybe. Yes, this is not a fictional chair!

[Hype62]

Apart from the caster axles, hows everything else working out and how is the fit and comfort? Your hips are not pushing against the wheels anymore? Did you have to pay extras for those carbon sideguards that were sent to you?

[SCI_OTR]

A No. 1 Phillips head will strip out a No 2 Phillips screw every time. I figured you'd probably bitch about their decision to use four 1/8" spacers on each fork (two spacers on each side of the caster hub). One always seemed to roll at least 15 feet away into some concealed spot whenever I changed casters or switched to different fork holes. I must of spent at least an hour looking for them.

Even though it is a new chair, you will have to go through a similiar process that you did to get your A4 dialed in. When it is, I bet you will have a hard time gong back to your A4 (though it would be a reliable back up and could be the preferred chair in some situations).

While you seem a little pissed off, I would like to commend you on how much you have learned over the past few months about configuring a chair to suit your needs. You've also taught me a thing or two. I now understand caster bearings and roller blades much better now because of your posts.

Hang in there, you'll get it dialed in.

[nikki-k]

Apart from the caster axles, hows everything else working out and how is the fit and comfort? Your hips are not pushing against the wheels anymore? Did you have to pay extras for those carbon sideguards that were sent to you?

It is simple adjustments. The frame is solid and seems I chose well enough there. Now it is simply getting the rest dialed in. The casters are not too bad, the phillips thing just gets me when it is something that can benefit from god torque. Allens seem to suffer as badly though.

Sideguards: Well, there were several chnges made, and cost changes came out similarly. Singularly, yes, they were more.

[nikki-k]

A No. 1 Phillips head will strip out a No 2 Phillips screw every time. I figured you'd probably bitch about their decision to use four 1/8" spacers on each fork (two spacers on each side of the caster hub). One always seemed to roll at least 15 feet away into some concealed spot whenever I changed casters or switched to different fork holes. I must of spent at least an hour looking for them.

Even though it is a new chair, you will have to go through a similiar process that you did to get your A4 dialed in. When it is, I bet you will have a hard time gong back to your A4 (though it would be a reliable back up and could be the preferred chair in some situations).

While you seem a little pissed off, I would like to commend you on how much you have learned over the past few months about configuring a chair to suit your needs. You've also taught me a thing or two. I now understand caster bearings and roller blades much better now because of your posts.

Hang in there, you'll get it dialed in.

Thx!
Yeah, learned ALOT here. You are one of those that was "essential reading" for me. So, many thx in return!

It's funny, with all the things going on for me, the chair was the one thing I hoped would be simple, since the demo I had was set a certain way, and the seat width was the ONLY real change, except for aesthetics like anodized color and all.

Oh, the spacers...lol!!! That is something I discussed with them prior to receiving it, and they sent me a set of spacers so I could use virtually any width wheel out there. I guess years of touring in bands built habits, like using magnets when pulling bolts, washers, spacers, etc. Nothing rolls away from them, but if it is non-magnetic metals (like titanium), then it becomes a matter of working over something like a bath mat, so that bounce and roll is reduced as much as possible (I try to do this anyway, when possible). Plus, I always have either/both a few cups for holding things, use plumbers tape an d mark each cup as I fill it, and then maybe those little weekly "pill planners." Great for holding smaller screws, easy to label quickly, and snap shut to keep things safe when working with multiple sets of things.

Today is a trip to the hardware store. Grabbing a pipe cutter, specific bolts, lock-tite and getting the tippers customized (gotta remember to do a before n after on them), set back angle for the 4" dump over 3.5" (and see if I actually prefer it to 3.5"; current is 3.5", and it is really nice for me, and took lots of trying to figure out), and swap over my Volcanic Glares from the A-4 to the ZRa. Oh- and pics...lol...

[nikki-k]

Hi!
OK, new tippers made. My hands are hurtin pretty bad now...stupid pipe cutter when you haven't touched one in years, and it is slightly dull...lol..

They aint pretty, and I had to drill for the wheels on one side crooked to make it touch down close to level..lol..too funny... I took before pics, and will take afters, along with the rest of the chair.

I found out that the claim of being able to adjust the front STF up or down 1/2" is wrong if you choose 3" casters. Seems 4" casters are the only ones that works for. I tried the upper hole to drop the front STF 1/2", and the forks were smackin when I hit certain uneven surfaces I regularly cruise over. So, instead I have to use my crappy Keen cushion. The extra supposed 1/4" of the Stimulite Classic seems more like 3/4", and I feel like I am too high with that extra bit. I figured lowering the STF overall by 1/2" would do it. Guess that is not possible. I did check the forks, and they do not have any spacers. The middle hole + 3" caster STF front height is 18", the lowest I am able to go now. Yeah, f'in pissed off about that. VERY tempted to call, but not sure what good it would even do. I would probably get a simple, "Well, the 3" caster is not meant for the upper hole, and in this document that appears at XXXX spot on our site states this...."

Love the new Spinergy wheels...well, the 20 mins or so I have had to roll around with them. The rest of the chair is...well, it was not worth what I have gone thru, and not worth the scarifices I and my family made to afford it. I should have had patience and waited for my A-4 to break enough, and then hope the replacement would be an Aero-Z or soemthing.

I am trying to find something positive about this chair, and I realize I do not have it setup right yet, and that once that si done and I have had it for awhile, I might like it alot. But right now...pffft. If I knew then what I know now, I would 100% not have done what I did. The chair is not worth it. I guess if I had to break down and lift the chair everyday I might feel differently. There just is nothing special about it.

OK, maybe the back upholstery is nice. Definite improvement. Sad that ~$3500 gets that part figured out. Gonna go find soemthing else to think about for a bit...pics tomorrow.

[Hype62]

I assume you have the bolted on seat sling right? You can drop the seat height by loosening the seat sling. You do this by loosening all the bolts on the seat sling rail, detach the velcros underneath the right side of the seat sling where the cloth folds, give it some slack then velcro back, then tighten back the bolts. This is one way of dropping seat height a bit. Another way is to get a Stimulite Sport 2" cushion, I been using them for 7 years with no problem, light weight and good airflow.

[fuentejps]

or a lower smaller tire.

lets see pics nicki

[quartermile]

nikki

one thing I have done recently that made my life easier is get rid of my side guards. On the zra you can increase the wheel spacing so your rear tires wont rub your cheeks/clothes. I does increase your overall width a little but I have encounter a problem anywhere...

[nikki-k]

Hi!
Thx for the suggestions!

Here are pics. The settings are all wrong, but I cannot go further aqs the local DME forgot to include the original screws when they dropped the rear STF down 1/2", so I cannot raise it. No sense doing anything til then. Wish I could sell the damn thing anyway at this point...

3 shots, 2 with flash on.

[nikki-k]

...and from the side, flash on!

I used some 3M reflective tape, black, so I am more visible when using crosswalks and such. We have little daylight during the winter, and we have people that get hit walking or on bikes...wheelchairs can be less visible, so I figured with as black as I have... Once I put the LED casters on, hopefully I will be visible enough.

Now the tippers. Yep, they are crooked! LOL! With no "real" tools to do this, they came out crooked, but the wheels touch down almost flush when the chair is tilted back fully on them. Basic geometry and physics. At least 200-225 of tipped weight should be able to flip and land square, preventing a full flip over with them, and they do not add more than a few inches of horizontal dimension to the chair. Shorter than the A-4, turning in small spaces is still a go.


So there it is. Someday I might be able to toddle around in it. After nearly 2 months though, the distaste , frustration and everything else has made it more than bittersweet. If I could simply get some axles to use the wheels with my A-4, I would be tempted. Alot more went on that was not written about here. Maybe I have spent my life not getting into drama and all that stuff, and now the paraplegic thing has thrown me into a new world, and I have not figured how to survive it yet. The A-4 has been my "learning chair." This forum has helped me get it to where it is so usable now, I dont know that I would have done the ZRa purchase. Love the Spinergy wheels though! And the Shox tires have been a pleasant suprise. With so much going on, I even had the fun of getting sick in my sleep and inhaling it. If you ever had water go down the wrong pipe, imagine that in your sleep, but with hot lava. Luckily I woke up almost immediately, and was able to get most of it out. I just want to live my damn life...

[Hype62]

Came out looking nice I think. I like the side views, the chair has that sporty look.

It would be easier to push if you can raise the backrest more upright.

Not digging the tape around the tubes though, makes the chair look messy, but thats just me. For me, I think I would have put the reflective tapes on the walls of the wheels so that oncoming cars can actually see the shape of a round wheel and better recognize that it is a cycle of some sort, so they can be more careful and avoid you.

Hows the clearance through doorways? The chair looks wide from the back shot, or is it because of the camera angle? You can mount the handrims on the wheel using the inner hole on the tab to shorten the width of the chair if you ever need to.

Just my 2cent for now.