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Specifying frame length on Tilite Order Form

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    Specifying frame length on Tilite Order Form

    In the process of ordering a Tilite TR as my new daily driver. But the Dealer (and me) is having trouble with specifying some of the dimensions. Namely Seat length and frame length. For me the seat should be 14" but I need the frame to come out to my knees approx 20. I know the bend in the frame takes some length as well. I doubt that much tho.How do I specify that on an order form?

    #2
    Call Tilite and ask them. Then get a CAD drawing of the chair before you commit to the order.

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      #3
      I dont live in America (I live in Australia) so I have to rely on dealers who dont have direct access to TiLite because of Timezone differences and such. I would like to get this right in as few changes as possible so I'm not shelling out cash on more CAD revisions because of a lack of knowledge on my part. I've never owned a Tilte and their order forms dont have an option to choose frame depth as well as seat depth. I know if you were able to draw it out in CAD taking into account RSH, FSH, Seat depth and front frame angle you might be able to establish these dimensions on your own, But I dont have CAD.

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        #4
        TiLite's order form and CAD specify the following:
        1. seat depth - front of the back rest to the front of the seat upholstery.
        2. frame depth - front of the back rest to where the front angle bend starts (may be less than or greater than seat depth)
        3. use occupied depth - front of the back rest to the front of the footplate.

        You want to specify the distance from the front of the back rest to the front of the down tube. This will be equal to the user occupied depth for a 90 degree front angle bend. It gets more involved if the front angle bend is not 90 degrees.

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          #5
          I see seat depth and height as well as front frame angle. but no frame depth. Must be implied by the other dimensions.
          Everybody wants freedom.... They just don't want it for everybody else...

          A college professor, a man I now consider my dad, once told me...
          "The minute you let someone decide what you can and cannot do, your life is no longer yours." A truer word has never been spoken in my opinion.


          Professor Bill Johnston
          (1930- )

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            #6
            Where is User Occupied Depth in the order form? I cant see it either.

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              #7
              Frame depth is under seat depth section and also on the CAD. User occupied depth is on the CAD only. Because TiLite prefers to specify it themselves. But you can request it by marking up a CAD. I did that and they built it accordingly.

              By the way, TiLite has two different standards for frame depth. On the order form, they specify it as the distance from the front of the seat sling to the beginning of the front angle bend. On the CAD they specify it as the distance from the front of the back rest to the beginning of the front angle bend. Either way it comes down to the same thing - where the front angle bend begins.

              Here's the CAD for my most recent chair. I want minimal fame depth tubing. Because any more than necessary gets in the way of transfers. Hence I specified a negative frame depth and 78 degree front angle bend. They didn't readily accept the negative frame depth because they said it made the user occupied depth too short, which makes the chair forward tippy. I explained that concern applies for a 90 degree bend but not a 78 degree bend. They accepted it and built it accordingly. Point is that you have to be in the know. Otherwise you may get a compromised design. I found that out the hard way from giving too much choice to others for past chairs. This chair I insisted on it being built my way. Of course, that means taking responsibility for it.

              I would still consult the "experts" before deciding.
              Attached Files
              Last edited by August West; 31 Jan 2020, 8:50 AM.

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                #8
                That's an interesting choice August. I like it. I'd fit perfectly into that chair (except it's too low for my tastes.) Has me thinking though. A wider front end that doesn't stick out far is much easier to transfer over lap in a car. I don't use frame to transfer, I use the outer wheel. What do you use to transfer if not the frame tube, since you've tucked it out of the way?
                "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

                "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

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                  #9
                  I transfer with one closed fist planted on the front corner of the seat cushion and the other closed fist planted on the seat that I am transfering to. If you grab the wheel then you are extending your shoulder more than necessary. If you use the down tube, you are sacrafing height. I use a ride cushion that is 4" tall. I don't sink in because it is hard foam. Hence the height difference between the top of the cushion and the seat tube is always 4". That's way too much clearance to give up and results in unnecessary stress on my shoulder. It's different with a Roho. Because you sink into the cushion, you're not giving up much height. Using the wheel is out of the question for me. Because it extends my shoulder. By placing my first at the corner of the seat cushion, I have minimal shoulder extension through the transfer.

                  A closed fist enables your hand angle to shift naturally as your body position changes through the transfer thus preventing injury that might happen if you're holding onto something like a tube or wheel.

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                    #10
                    By the way, I had a tall chair. I figured it would help my shoulders by decreasing reach distance and make it easier to communicate with taller people. Well, it did make it easier to communicate with taller people. But it backfired with the shoulders resulting in overuse injury.

                    While it did make it easier to reach items on shelves and such, it made it harder on the shoulders to push and transfer. Because as you increase seat height, you use more shoulder and less arm muscles (think short choppy motions instead of long smoother motions). That has much more toll on the shoulder than reaching.

                    Since I have gone back to a lower seating position, I have offloaded much of the shoulder work to my arms. That's helping recover the shoulders from constant overuse injury they were subject to over the previous 5 years in the taller chair.

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                      #11
                      I see. Makes sense. I often use closed fist for transfers too. Saves my wrists and fingers the stress (as a guitar player that matters a lot). I'm strong and light so don't have real shoulder issues, yet, but I can see that becoming an issue. If I put my fist onto the outer edge of my cushion vs grabbing a bit behind that for the wheel there isn't much difference in my arm extension, really. Guess it depends where you're planting your fist. It takes all kinds for the world to go 'round, as my Nana used to say.
                      "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

                      "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Yeah. I just let my preferred tire size and dump and reach to the hub center dictate seat height and axle position for my current chair. Came out to 16.5" height and 3.75" axle position. Going with the old "center of the hub" reach, with arms relaxed at the side, for "ideal push stroke" notion.

                        Originally posted by August West View Post
                        By the way, I had a tall chair. I figured it would help my shoulders and make it easier to communicate with taller people. Well, it did make it easier to communicate with taller people. But it backfired with the shoulders resulting in overuse injury. Because as you increase seat height, you use more shoulder and less arm muscles (think short choppy strokes instead on long smoother strokes). Since I have gone back a lower seating position, I have offloaded much of the shoulder work to my arms. That's helping recover the shoulders from constant overuse injury they were subject to over the previous 5 years in that tall chair.
                        "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

                        "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Oddity View Post
                          That's an interesting choice August. I like it. I'd fit perfectly into that chair (except it's too low for my tastes.)
                          If I recall correctly, you use a Roho cushion. That's why you need taller seat height. I use a Ride Custom so I need lower seat height.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Oddity View Post
                            Yeah. I just let my preferred tire size and dump and reach to the hub center dictate seat height and axle position for my current chair. Came out to 16.5" height and 3.75" axle position. Going with the old "center of the hub" reach, with arms relaxed at the side, for "ideal push stroke" notion.
                            I like the Ride Custom cushion for most things. Pushing isn't one of them. In a Roho or soft foam cushion your thighs sink deeper into the cushion as you lean forward toward the end of the push. This natural rocking motion enables not only your thighs but also your entire upper body to lean in further toward the end of the push. The Ride Custom doesn't enable leaning into the push as much. Hence, the "center of the hub" rule has to be adjusted so that you sit lower to compensate.

                            You want that natural rocking motion. Because without it your hips are locked into place. Your back and shoulders need sway in your hips. Otherwise you contort your body as you extend it (in any direction). Doesn't matter when sitting still. But makes a difference (more than you may think) for all sorts of activity, even transferring and reaching.

                            I am questioning how the Ride Custom affects shoulders in this way and how much I want to use the Ride Custom. Using it exclusively right now. But that may change.
                            Last edited by August West; 1 Feb 2020, 3:23 AM.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Oddity View Post
                              I see. Makes sense. I often use closed fist for transfers too. Saves my wrists and fingers the stress (as a guitar player that matters a lot). I'm strong and light so don't have real shoulder issues, yet, but I can see that becoming an issue. If I put my fist onto the outer edge of my cushion vs grabbing a bit behind that for the wheel there isn't much difference in my arm extension, really. Guess it depends where you're planting your fist. It takes all kinds for the world to go 'round, as my Nana used to say.
                              To exert as little stress on my shoulder as possible, I want my fist planted as close as possible to where I am transfering. That means planting it under my thigh. The space between this spot and the wheel is 6". To make it even easier, I move my butt toward the front corner of the cushion toward where I am transfering. Now I can plant my fist in the middle of the cushion rather than the outside corner, thus gaining another several inches.

                              That extra reach is unnecessary stress on my shoulder (think iron cross). More power to you if you can extend your shoulder that far unnecessarily.

                              But don't be mistaken and learn from my mistake. I used to do transfers without locking brakes. For example, getting out of the car I would start the transfer with the chair roughly where I wanted it and then I would pull my chair into position as I transferred in. Basically, I could hold myself in the air indefinitely mid-transfer and move the chair back and forth with a planted fist on the cushion. Show off! That's how strong my shoulders were. Now I have to baby them with a transfer board due to injury. That injury took about 5 seconds and changed my life forever. Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Don't push it man!
                              Attached Files

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