Permobil Active Reach aka Anterior Tilt - Like it or Hate it?

[beatscookin]

In the process of ordering a new Permobil F3 and trying to decide whether to get it with the free 10 degree anterior tilt it comes with, or to keep it off.

I was disappointed to hear from Permobil that it affects the seat to floor height, which is crucial for me. Apparently with a 17.5" seat to floor chair, if you use anterior tilt, then "un-tilt" it, it "pauses" at "level" (not exact), and ends up at 18.5 at the front and about 19 at the rear. You then have to push the down seat elevator button to get back to 17.75 (that's not even 17.5!), and it seems to struggle a bit. So then you have to go up some first and then back down again.

This would drive me crazy!

I'm thinking of ditching anterior tilt so I'll have a better chance of quickly getting to seat to floor at 17.5". Then I won't have to monkey with going up and down a bunch of times just to get down all the way.

[Gearhead]

I got 20 degrees. It does help a little in some situations. Not as useful as I thought it would be so I don't use it much.

[RollinPositive]

In the process of ordering a new Permobil F3 and trying to decide whether to get it with the free 10 degree anterior tilt it comes with, or to keep it off.

I was disappointed to hear from Permobil that it affects the seat to floor height, which is crucial for me. Apparently with a 17.5" seat to floor chair, if you use anterior tilt, then "un-tilt" it, it "pauses" at "level" (not exact), and ends up at 18.5 at the front and about 19 at the rear. You then have to push the down seat elevator button to get back to 17.75 (that's not even 17.5!), and it seems to struggle a bit. So then you have to go up some first and then back down again.

This would drive me crazy!

I'm thinking of ditching anterior tilt so I'll have a better chance of quickly getting to seat to floor at 17.5". Then I won't have to monkey with going up and down a bunch of times just to get down all the way.

10% comes free and I love it and used it all the time.
When out and about be amazed how many times one will need that extra inch...

Like everything else one get use to the working the switch box to meet ones needs!

[Davey]

Love it! Haven't really experienced the problems you're talking about. It does have to adjust height sometimes based on legrest positioning, but I've programmed M1, M2, and M3 to go to various defined positions so resetting to a desired positioning is just a push of a single button. I have an M3 so things may be different, but you should also have access to the M1-M3 programming on your F3.

[Gearhead]

I got 20 degrees. It does help a little in some situations. Not as useful as I thought it would be so I don't use it much.

The F3 is my new chair. I've tested it in most all situations. In my clean shop, forward tilt & elevate helped me reach parts on shelves. If I'm in shop for long, I'll get into one of my projects which will put a wrench, welder, or grinder in my hands, getting new chair dirty. I have 2 shop chairs that can get dirty. F3 is too fresh for my projects.

Don't have a way to take it shopping but (like parts on shelves) I can see it helpful with that task.

Button pressing for mine is this: from slight a recline, forward tilt until seat levels out - continue holding button (can barely hear foot rest actuator slowly working into sync).
When seat & (a few seconds later) footrest stop, release tilt button, press seat forward tilt again and hold.
I assume this is for safety, can't go from recline to forward tilt without 1 additional command.

[beatscookin]

10% comes free and I love it and used it all the time.
When out and about be amazed how many times one will need that extra inch...

Like everything else one get use to the working the switch box to meet ones needs!

Doesn't it make you feel like you're sliding down out of your chair? I have MD too. I don't use any seat belts though, do you?

[beatscookin]

Button pressing for mine is this: from slight a recline, forward tilt until seat levels out - continue holding button (can barely hear foot rest actuator slowly working into sync).
When seat & (a few seconds later) footrest stop, release tilt button, press seat forward tilt again and hold.
I assume this is for safety, can't go from recline to forward tilt without 1 additional command.

Yes, but assuming you're elevated at the time, after you do all the above and elevate down, does it go all the way down, or just almost? Then I'm under the impression you'd need to go up again just a little, then down again to get all the way down.

[Gearhead]

I think I know what your talking about. From full forward, back to level, then I can hit down button and it lowered a slight amount even though I didn't elevate.
I noticed it when I was getting acquainted with the chair, playing with buttons.

Forward tilt and leg rests work in sync so I think it kicks elevate up slightly for proper position of leg rests in relation to the ground (my assumption).
Might do it for other reasons unknown to me, for now.

It's not something concerning because it's such a small amount. !/2 - 1 inch at the most.
So, after returning from a forward tilt, hit down elevate button for the 1/2 inch lower.

[beatscookin]

Gearhead,
A 1 inch height variation is going to make a huge difference to me when transferring, especially if I forget to hit the down elevate button again.

Regarding a couple of other seat elevator quirks:

1) I have on loan from Numotion an F3 (older model) with all seat functions, except anterior tilt. It does this cool thing where it comes all the way down from seat elevation and at the very bottom does a nice 1/4" seat dump. No pushing the button a second time, just does it automatically. I love this! Is that how all of the new F3s are, or is it special programming?

2) On the same F3 loaner, it does this annoying thing where it reclines backwards slightly when elevating up. Then my arm rest and joystick are too high to be comfortable, causing me to have to hit the recline forward button all the way again before proceeding to drive while elevated. Again, is this standard, or some kind of special programming? A giant pain in the butt!

[RollinPositive]

Doesn't it make you feel like you're sliding down out of your chair? I have MD too. I don't use any seat belts though, do you?

MD too and also dont use seat belts.

Never feel like sliding and great when you need to reach for something and need an extra inch or two!

[RollinPositive]

Gearhead,
A 1 inch height variation is going to make a huge difference to me when transferring, especially if I forget to hit the down elevate button again.

Regarding a couple of other seat elevator quirks:

1) I have on loan from Numotion an F3 (older model) with all seat functions, except anterior tilt. It does this cool thing where it comes all the way down from seat elevation and at the very bottom does a nice 1/4" seat dump. No pushing the button a second time, just does it automatically. I love this! Is that how all of the new F3s are, or is it special programming?

2) On the same F3 loaner, it does this annoying thing where it reclines backwards slightly when elevating up. Then my arm rest and joystick are too high to be comfortable, causing me to have to hit the recline forward button all the way again before proceeding to drive while elevated. Again, is this standard, or some kind of special programming? A giant pain in the butt!

As the seat goes up it moves back to change your center of gravity, but seat should not change?

Have the tech reprogram it!

[beatscookin]

As the seat goes up it moves back to change your center of gravity, but seat should not change?

Have the tech reprogram it!

Does your new chair do the 1/4" seat dump?

[Gearhead]

As the seat goes up it moves back to change your center of gravity, but seat should not change?

Have the tech reprogram it!

Yea, that's what is needed to make it suit your needs. Ask them to program the loaner. They can copy those profiles to the new chair. Be ready for resistance getting them to program any chair.
Your loaner can be a test as to whether they'll work with you. If they resist reprogramming, look at a Quantum 4Front, forget NuMotion/Permobil.

[SLIQNES]

Yea, that's what is needed to make it suit your needs. Ask them to program the loaner. They can copy those profiles to the new chair. Be ready for resistance getting them to program any chair.
Your loaner can be a test as to whether they'll work with you. If they resist reprogramming, look at a Quantum 4Front, forget NuMotion/Permobil.

Which do you prefer Quantum or Permobil?

[Gearhead]

I've not tested a Quantum yet, only studied them. The 4Front is the one I was considering before I got the F3.
My main chair (before getting F3) was really worn everywhere so I didn't have a lot of time to test a 4Front.
Took 3+ months to get F3. If I had tested a 4Front, I was afraid it would have taken more time to get a new chair. I had to make a quick decision.

After getting F3, I used my old chair as a donor to make a nice C300 back up chair.
I now have 2 clean indoor chairs (although I go outside with them sometimes).
Each have different feel to my butt and back so I rotate between them after a few days.
If I live long enough to get another new chair, I will test the 4Front. 5 more years from now, who knows what will be on market.

Side note: I got an email from Permobil a few weeks ago, saying they can/will reprogram any chair, no matter the brand.
That is not what I've experienced with the 2 new chairs I've got from them. May be a regional issue. I had fun learning how to program them myself.

I would like to hear what others have to say about Quantum, especially the 4Front.