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  • #16
    Originally posted by Brad09 View Post
    -------------- It's unfortunate that Steve/HoC doesn't deal with insurance because their chairs seem top notch.
    Most likely because they value their integrity and do not want to be 'owned' and directed by the insurance industry.

    Look at banks and how they used to operate; then compare with their function now that they are largely owned by insurance companies.
    Business ethics, are they out the window?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by giles88 View Post
      The problems with the Quickie Ti frames was the design, frame crush when adjusting the axle plate and retightening the bolts. I still have an old Quickie Ti frame (circa 1994), and rivnuts are all perfectly flush to the frame, every hole in it is clean, even the welds looks better than current Tilite stuff. And despite what my friend Titanium4motion says, yes Tilite did make that frame, I know this because Tilite told me they did.

      I think the thin wall Ti tube is okay, if the design of the frame doesn't have any thru bolts, and its a fixed welded back, not adjustable. I actually prefer aluminum over Ti, and once tried to get Tilite to make me an aluminum TR, but as often is the case with them, they refused.
      My old incomplete TR project has welded in tube reinforcing at all through bolt location. No crush there (I think it is a MK1 version?) It is too good to toss out and will give plenty of service when completed.
      http:///forum/attachment.php?attachm...1&d=1490557168

      Does anyone have back canes and upholstery for a TR??

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Brad09 View Post
        While I agree with all the statements about Tilite's customer service/workmanship going downhill since being acquired by Permobil, can an aluminum chair really be made as light as a Ti one? If so, why does Tilite say there is a 3lb difference on their site (assuming they aren't lying)? Because 3lbs is pretty substantial to me. It's unfortunate that Steve/HoC doesn't deal with insurance because their chairs seem top notch.

        Aluminum alloys can absolutely be made lighter than titanium chairs. Titanium's claim to fame is strength to weight, memory, and corrosion resistance. It's a heavier element than aluminum. Using proper heat treat and oval tubes Al becomes strong enough to last as long (or longer) than a TiLite expected life, as light, and cheaper. For actual data points, The lightest TiLite ZR ever posted here, with lots of custom bits, by stephen212 (you can find his post) is, according to his measurements, ~2lbs heavier than my aluminum/magnesium alloy chair (which I weighed on camera in a thread posted here titled "Christmas came in July"). It's also 10 years old this year and never an issue. Also, the oval tube Quickie Q7 can be configure as light, and RGK makes a chromolybendum chair even lighter. It is mostly hype, and cool factor, and marketing. I love TiLite designs, just don't buy into the notion it's worth an extra 2k. Especially as often as we see cracked frame threads pop up here. They can be a couple lbs lighter, in some minimalistic configurations, but as we've seen here over and over, manufacturer's weight claims are carefully massaged and rarely shake out in real world setups. For the record, I feel the exact same way about my Lashers, and have said as much. I'm "against" it as a value proposition, and for the fan boi, non-data supported, hype.

        Ultimately I think people should be able to pay for whatever they want, my opinions not withstanding. More choice is better than less. But, when they start spouting fan boi level hype, while also expecting other people to pay for them, my opinions become more vocal.

        Buy what you like, at the end of the day, but don't be too surprised when other people don't want to pay a premium for something without bonafide, data driven, medical necessity, factually supported, premium outcomes. Marketing one-sheets don't count.
        Last edited by Oddity; 08-28-2018, 05:07 PM.
        "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

        "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

        "Even what those with the greatest reputation for knowing it all claim to understand and defend are but opinions..." -Heraclitus, Fragments

        Comment


        • #19
          Get your facts straight!

          Originally posted by giles88 View Post
          The problems with the Quickie Ti frames was the design, frame crush when adjusting the axle plate and retightening the bolts. I still have an old Quickie Ti frame (circa 1994), and rivnuts are all perfectly flush to the frame, every hole in it is clean, even the welds looks better than current Tilite stuff. And despite what my friend Titanium4motion says, yes Tilite did make that frame, I know this because Tilite told me they did.

          I think the thin wall Ti tube is okay, if the design of the frame doesn't have any thru bolts, and its a fixed welded back, not adjustable. I actually prefer aluminum over Ti, and once tried to get Tilite to make me an aluminum TR, but as often is the case with them, they refused.
          No, titanium4motion did not say TiLite made Quickie Ti 'chairs, reread my post. I indicated Quickie made their 'chairs inhouse which I stand correct by TiLite. I lost interest in Quickie products about 1994. I don't even know if their still in business?

          I talked with TiLite today and they were not even FDA approved to make 'chairs for Quickie. Sandvik Special Metals from Kennewick, Washington made the Quickie Ti wheelchairs. Sandvik Special Metals also machines titanium parts for other companies also.

          https://www.materials.sandvik/en/con...al-metals-llc/

          TiLite was FDA approved in 1999. TiSport/TiLite only manufacturers their wheelchairs only.

          I asked Tiite, "Where do they purchase their titanium tubing from?" and the representative told me, "That's proprietary information." Ouch! So how do you know your tubing came from China?

          TiLite uses Grade 9 titanium which is contains 3.0% aluminium, 2.5% vanadium and 94.5% of titanium. This grade is a compromise between the ease of welding and manufacturing of the "pure" grades and the high strength of Grade 5. It is commonly used in aircraft tubing for hydraulics and in athletic equipment.

          Also attached is one of the baddest 'chairs I ever saw. This is stephen212's 'chair. TiLite knows him well. I wanted a rigidizer bar like his and TiLite said they would do it for me but after 11 months the district manager told me, "TiLite would not make it for me due to waste and cost."

          In their YouTube video in their shop they have a huge banner that says, "The Titanium Experts". Yeah, right. I do have frustrations with TiLite with their Ti-Ordering process. I was so frustrated with them I have a three page Word document that I was going to post here but i kept my cool and did not post it. They still manufacturer custom 'chairs that are the best but they need competition to get their act together.

          I think of all of the veterans that comme home and need a good custom 'chair. Is TiLite up to it? An oval rigidizer bar that difficult to bend? TiLite, you guys use computer-aided-design software and you can not export the file to a bending machine? This is not rocket science here it is bending a tube.

          What ever happened to TiLite guy here at CareCure? Remember him?

          Also attached is a picture of Quickies Ti 'chair front tubing. The tubing is not that thick. It was made too long for me and I had to cut off about 1/2" for my feet to rest properly and silicone emblem off my shin guards from my TiSport first 'chair.


          Ti
          Attached Files
          "We must overcome difficulties rather than being overcome by difficulties."

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by titanium4motion View Post
            No, titanium4motion did not say TiLite made Quickie Ti 'chairs, reread my post.
            Reread my post, I was disagreeing with your statement that Quickie ti chairs were never made by Tilite...im saying they were made by Tilite.

            I'm no longer a Tilite Kool-Aid drinker. Should you choose to continue to do business with them, I wish you well and hope you have good experiences. Fortunately, for people that like Ti chairs they now have another option, AN ALTERNATIVE FOR TI CHAIRS..... Holub at HOC.


            Giles
            Last edited by giles88; 08-29-2018, 03:16 AM.

            Comment


            • #21
              My current rides.
              Attached Files
              stephen@bike-on.com

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by stephen212 View Post
                My current rides.
                My son has asked whether you could send one of your rides to him, as you obviously don’t use yours...!

                (He’s a teenager...the thought of cleaning or polishing anything has never crossed his mind...)
                Gordon, father of son who became t6 paraplegic at the age of 4 in 2007 as a result of surgery to remove a spinal tumour.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by stephen212 View Post
                  My current rides.

                  Fantastic, as always. Still looking just as sharp, years later, I'd imagine. Hands down, a couple of the best chair designs in the industry.

                  (That's the ZR I was referring to in an earlier post.)
                  Last edited by Oddity; 08-29-2018, 09:06 AM.
                  "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

                  "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

                  "Even what those with the greatest reputation for knowing it all claim to understand and defend are but opinions..." -Heraclitus, Fragments

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Gordy1 View Post
                    My son has asked whether you could send one of your rides to him, as you obviously don’t use yours...!

                    (He’s a teenager...the thought of cleaning or polishing anything has never crossed his mind...)
                    My teenage son, who just started college last week, has been using my spare/backup chair (whichever one that is at the time) as his desk chair. He's got great wheelchair skills.
                    stephen@bike-on.com

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Oddity View Post
                      Fantastic, as always. Still looking just as sharp, years later, I'd imagine. Hands down, a couple of the best chair designs in the industry.

                      (That's the ZR I was referring to in an earlier post.)
                      The ZR pictured is the "son of the ZR" that titanium4motion posted. When I moved from NYC to SoCal and needed to buy a car, I chose the (now discontinued) Mazda 5 and had the middle row driver's side seat removed so that I could pull my chair into the car fully assembled. The height of the angled rigidizer bar makes reaching the chair much easier. It also makes getting pulled up steps a bit easier on those occasions when I need to recruit someone to lift my chair. The welded lock mounts were another off-the-menu customization commonly found on European manuals but were a first for TiLite.
                      stephen@bike-on.com

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by stephen212 View Post
                        The ZR pictured is the "son of the ZR" that titanium4motion posted. When I moved from NYC to SoCal and needed to buy a car, I chose the (now discontinued) Mazda 5 and had the middle row driver's side seat removed so that I could pull my chair into the car fully assembled. The height of the angled rigidizer bar makes reaching the chair much easier. It also makes getting pulled up steps a bit easier on those occasions when I need to recruit someone to lift my chair. The welded lock mounts were another off-the-menu customization commonly found on European manuals but were a first for TiLite.

                        Awesome. I'd own one. Still waiting for one of these Lasher's to break, first. Now that Steve Holub is selling chairs, though...hmmmmmm...
                        "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

                        "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

                        "Even what those with the greatest reputation for knowing it all claim to understand and defend are but opinions..." -Heraclitus, Fragments

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Another fine job by TiLite.

                          Stephen212,

                          Absolutely beautiful 'chairs, A+. I knew TiLite can make extraordinary 'chairs! Absolutely stunning!

                          Another great job!

                          They look like a piece of art!

                          Ti
                          "We must overcome difficulties rather than being overcome by difficulties."

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by titanium4motion View Post
                            Stephen212,

                            Absolutely beautiful 'chairs, A+. I knew TiLite can make extraordinary 'chairs! Absolutely stunning!

                            Another great job!

                            They look like a piece of art!

                            Ti
                            If you can wait until Jan-Feb, you might be able to get your ovalized tube. But, just saying there is a much less painless alternative now... http://www.teamhoc.com/

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I'm still going with TiLite.

                              Originally posted by giles88 View Post
                              If you can wait until Jan-Feb, you might be able to get your ovalized tube. But, just saying there is a much less painless alternative now... http://www.teamhoc.com/
                              There's several things TiLite has that Teamhoc does not have.

                              TiLite has almost 20 years experience in manufacturing custom wheelchairs. How many years does Teamhoc have building wheelchairs?

                              TiLite within almost 20 years has built millions of wheelchairs worldwide. How many wheelchairs has Teamhoc built?

                              TiLite has the experience and innovation.

                              Competition against TiLite will only force TiLite to be a stronger company otherwise they will be knocked out of first place.

                              Even though I had issues with TiLite they still make the best 'chairs on Earth and I will still support them until a better company comes along. Some problems were with the DME.

                              So, why is there such a great demand for people wanting a TiLite 'chairs? Quality? Workmanship? Light weight? Innovation? Hysteria?

                              Just look at those pictures stephen212 posted of his TiLite 'chairs and the one I posted. Seeing that wheel lock mount is making TiLite a better company by customer input. That wheel lock mount is nice. An excellent design.

                              I'm still sporting TiLite.

                              Ti
                              "We must overcome difficulties rather than being overcome by difficulties."

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Not to diminish what TiLite has achieved, which is remarkable, ImO, but Team HoC also has a long and storied history of craftsmanship and innovation. At least as long as I've been hurt, the past 10+ years, they've made some incredibly cool takes on sit skis and wheel chair suspension, to mention just a couple. Their concept chairs, with 'multi-link'/multi-axis suspension are amazing ideas. Functional examples, too. Not to mention D's Locks. I don't know, yet, but I think there is good reason to hope.

                                A personal anecdote: I remember one of the guys from Team HoC had a booth at an Abilities Expo in NJ, 2008, I think... While he was talking to folks rolling into his booth he did a quick maintenance check over their chairs; checking all the fasteners and what not. I liked that. He noticed a couple of things going wrong with a Quickie GT I was using.
                                "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

                                "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

                                "Even what those with the greatest reputation for knowing it all claim to understand and defend are but opinions..." -Heraclitus, Fragments

                                Comment

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