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  • Outride Horizon (or similar) review

    Hi,

    I’m looking for something that will let me get back on mountain bike trails.

    It?s not quite fair to say that cost is no object, but I?d rather buy something that will work for me at a high price than waste money on something cheaper that is compromised in some way.

    That has brought me to look at the Outride Horizon hand+electric. Does anyone have any experience or better yet own one and can give a real world review?

    Also what alternatives may I have missed?

    I like the idea of a tadpole configuration rather than a single front wheel (as I perceive increased stability, braking and steering performance with two front wheels).

    I?m also very sceptical of the traction available for climbing with a single front wheel providing drive, though I know there are options with a single front wheel and rear wheel drive.

    Lastly I preferred 29er mountain bikes to 27.5? wheels, so I?m also wary of 20? wheels on off road trikes with what I imagine to be an greatly reduced ability to roll over obstacles like roots and rocks.

    Really I?m keen to hear any advice that will enable me to avoid making an expensive mis-step.
    Last edited by Fen; 08-11-2018, 09:43 PM. Reason: OP request
    T2 complete since late 2016. Apparently I wasn?t as good at mountain biking as I thought

    I apologise that when I type an apostrophe it appears as a question mark. I post using an iPad and this is the only forum it happens on. I will fix it if I figure out how.

  • #2
    Members cannot change the title of their posts, but moderators can. i changed it for you.

    (KLD)
    The SCI-Nurses are advanced practice nurses specializing in SCI/D care. They are available to answer questions, provide education, and make suggestions which you should always discuss with your physician/primary health care provider before implementing. Medical diagnosis is not provided, nor do the SCI-Nurses provide nursing or medical care through their responses on the CareCure forums.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by SCI-Nurse View Post
      Members cannot change the title of their posts, but moderators can. i changed it for you.

      (KLD)

      Wonderful - thanks. I figured I couldn't change it, nor delete it and create a new one with the title correct.

      It's far more likely to catch the eye of someone who has anything to offer now, so thanks again for fixing it. I proof read the body but must remember to proof the title in future also as autocorrect frequently changes the meaning with its “help”.
      T2 complete since late 2016. Apparently I wasn?t as good at mountain biking as I thought

      I apologise that when I type an apostrophe it appears as a question mark. I post using an iPad and this is the only forum it happens on. I will fix it if I figure out how.

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't think the recumbent is more stable than a bicycle because with a bike you can always use your legs, (used to always) for stabilization, giving you four points front, rear wheels and either leg for control. I know, I've nearly flipped and have flipped. That said, these are not rocket science like the videos make them out to be. Just find a recumbent you like and add a decent motor to it. Here is the one that I had the bike shop put together before I knew how. It only has a 500 W motor and 48 V battery, so is weak uphill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAEYzhsFZ4g
        I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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        • #5
          Consider that the average off road wheelchair is wider than a mountain bike and so singletrack can be tricky and anything off camber brings a new thrill experience! I'm C3 so restricted to 4 wheel off road chairs and chin steer, still work in the mountain bike industry and have to work at events and doing photo shoots when mags want a piece of me so end up places that maybe aren't that easy to ride. Decent suspension is a must if you want to ride anything other than fireroads, swapped my coil shocks for Fox Float air so can tune for my weight. Just looking at putting mousse in the tyres to be able to run lower pressure for better grip and for punctures. I'm on 20/24 and tyre choice is limited but I now get a Vee Tire 2.8,folding, tubeless ready in both sizes, 26/27.5 or 29 would give more choice but I wouldn't get hung up on wheel size, it is different to mountain biking.

          I can do very few of my old mountain bike routes, limited by how my chair works but it does get me out on the fells and whilst I can't keep up with a mountain bike I can still get to events in muddy fields.

          Have fun whatever you end up with.

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          • #6
            Thanks for the responses.

            I don’t expect to get back to the single track I used to ride as (as you say mrb) most of it is too narrow for a trike, and even when it’s wide enough it might well have tight switchbacks.

            There are some trails that are wide enough and not so tight that they would work however, and I’d like something that isn’t going to fall apart nor shake me to pieces on them, so; decent braking, the ability to steer dependably and a. OT or to help get all that weight up in the first place are a must (there’s no shuttling here in Wellington unless people organise it themselves with a pick up and a few mates).

            It's good to hear that wheel size isn’t as important as with regular mountain bikes, given so few options have big wheels, so thanks for that confirmation.
            T2 complete since late 2016. Apparently I wasn?t as good at mountain biking as I thought

            I apologise that when I type an apostrophe it appears as a question mark. I post using an iPad and this is the only forum it happens on. I will fix it if I figure out how.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Fen View Post
              ... so; decent braking, the ability to steer dependably and a. OT or to help get all that weight up in the first place are a must (there?s no shuttling here in Wellington unless people organise it themselves with a pick up and a few mates).
              I’m going to assume that the word “motor” is meant to be in that sentence somewhere! If so, and you don’t mind not having the ability to pedal at all, there is this one: http://iconwheelchairs.com/explore/
              Gordon, father of son who became t6 paraplegic at the age of 4 in 2007 as a result of surgery to remove a spinal tumour.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Gordy1 View Post
                I?m going to assume that the word ?motor? is meant to be in that sentence somewhere! If so, and you don?t mind not having the ability to pedal at all, there is this one: http://iconwheelchairs.com/explore/
                Oh my, a 26 wheel with a 3000 watt motor should get uphills.
                I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gordy1 View Post
                  I’m going to assume that the word “motor” is meant to be in that sentence somewhere! If so, and you don’t mind not having the ability to pedal at all, there is this one: http://iconwheelchairs.com/explore/
                  Yep, my fat fingers - definitely a motor was what I intended.

                  That Icon looks awesome, but I had envisaged pedallling also. In fact I suspect that may not be allowed on most mountain bike trails here as even electric assist bikes are polarising opinions on whether or not they should be allowed. I bets it's all kinds of fun though.

                  i had exactly the same as that rear tyre on my last fat bike, and something like that would definitely help with traction.
                  T2 complete since late 2016. Apparently I wasn?t as good at mountain biking as I thought

                  I apologise that when I type an apostrophe it appears as a question mark. I post using an iPad and this is the only forum it happens on. I will fix it if I figure out how.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Fen View Post
                    That Icon looks awesome, but I had envisaged pedallling also. In fact I suspect that may not be allowed on most mountain bike trails here as even electric assist bikes are polarising opinions on whether or not they should be allowed.
                    Yep, I’ve heard the same views here...but surely nobody would object to a very small number of electric powered handcycles? If so, you MTBers are a tough crowd!

                    Your comment has just reminded me about an organisation started by someone we know in Perth, which is now Australia-wide. Check this out: https://breaktheboundary.com/

                    I’d suggest you get in contact with Andrew - he should be able to give you some good advice on what to get. I suspect you have a few things in common....
                    Gordon, father of son who became t6 paraplegic at the age of 4 in 2007 as a result of surgery to remove a spinal tumour.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Fen View Post
                      Yep, my fat fingers - definitely a motor was what I intended.

                      That Icon looks awesome, but I had envisaged pedallling also. In fact I suspect that may not be allowed on most mountain bike trails here as even electric assist bikes are polarising opinions on whether or not they should be allowed. I bets it's all kinds of fun though.

                      i had exactly the same as that rear tyre on my last fat bike, and something like that would definitely help with traction.
                      When I first got my Boma I asked one of my friends who has a large mountain biking forum website to run a poll on whether the site users would accept various types of vehicle and was surprised that so high a % didn't want off road wheelchairs even on easy blue graded trails! We can use off road wheelchairs legally on public paths and I have never had a problem, most people are pleased to see a disabled person out enjoying nature. Even horse riders that can be a problem mountain biking don't get annoyed by the Boma.

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                      • #12
                        I was working since December on a project with the same goal as you : coming back to rocky muddy trails after my injury.
                        I had the opportunity to buy a second hand Hase Lepus handbike at an affordable price. It was motorized by a front-wheel 250W hub motor. It was not a brilliant config for off-roading : not enough power nor grip.
                        I swapped the hub motor with a std wheel, and the rigid fork with a suspended one. My Hase was then fully suspended. As it was rear wheel drive, the solution was, obviously, to motorize these wheels (wich have also a lot of grip, as the rider is sitting, more or less, on top of the rear axle)
                        I bought from Cyclone, in China, a big 1680W motor designed for recumbent, with a double freewheel on the drivetrain.
                        I was previously owner of 2 big 48V-11Ah batteries from my 4x4 electric all terrain swedish wheelchair (Zoom from ZoomAbility)
                        After a lot of work, we managed to put all this together. The motor is under the seat, the batteries are sliding vertically on the back. I swapped the 9 speed Shimano cog with a NuVinci 360 CVT, allowing to change the gears while not rolling. There are two modes : "pedelec" asks for continuous pedaling to have the assistance, and "power" is a motor mode, no needs to pedal. As I'm a quad, I have chin commands for the power and the gears. I bought QuadGrips handles from Bike-on (thanks John !) I also had to design and make a brake system using the chain, and allowing to brake when I pedal in reverse (it uses the 2 rear hydraulic brakes)
                        This project is not totally finished, ... but will it be ?
                        Anyway, even if I have to improve some details, it begin to have a good shape. It rolls nicely at 25/30 Km/h -15mph- even on rough terrain. the dampers do their job and it feels like a flying carpet. The very low gear and the powerful motor seems to allow abig climb-ability (not fully tested yet !)
                        So if it can help, I would say a full suspended bike is a must. Big brakes too. Rear wheel drive for the grip. Big wheels ? I don't know, mine are 20", there's a lot of choice for the tires in BMX world... Of course 27.5" or may be 29" could be better for rollability, but will increase gyroscopic forces too. The other interest of small wheels on this Lepus is the transfer: easy, as the seat is flush with my wheelchair and there's no wheel on the way. Tadpole or Delta ? IMHO, Tadpole are the best, stability, braking efficiency, easy to motorize with a hub motor in the rear wheel... But I didn't find one !
                        Last edited by robotnik; 08-19-2018, 05:50 AM.
                        C6-7 since mid 2002, no hand control nor triceps.
                        my website & my job (in France): Accessibility advisor www.acceslibre.eu
                        Also working on a French research about Peer counseling and Empowerment.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Fen-
                          I had a horizon adapted for using the foot pedals, which I can do weakly. The electric assist, which is powerful and fast, made it fun. It is not easy to transfer onto but not terribly difficult. As a female my main difficulty was getting off to pee in some secluded spot. Then I moved to the desert, which does not have secluded spots.

                          I loved it but it was not perfect. The turning radius of a horizon is wide. It did not take to loose sand well so I had to stay on roads. It just did not work in my new location. It was for sale in the used section of the Outrider website. It was not really safe for me to go out on alone, but my partner had a stroke after we got here...yadda, yadda, I gave up.

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                          • #14
                            Thanks for the input, and sorry for taking so long to respond. I thought I had post notifications on, but looks like I didn’t so I nearly missed some (very helpful) replies.

                            @robotnik, the initial recommendation I was given was to go with a Hase Kettwiesel, fitted with a motor to assist the rear wheels and with full suspension. I had a go of a non-assisted one on a paved car park and loved it, but that is not off road and since then the 20” wheels started to worry me. Based on your experience perhaps I should not worry so much about wheel size, and it sounds like even the taller Lepus is stable enough? Do you find you can steer OK with the single front wheel, or does the trike sometimes run wide because the wheel slides when you turn?

                            @Tetracyclone, thanks for the feedback on the Horizon. I currently have a Force2 road hand cycle which is the definition of difficult to transfer out of, and that means I don’t currently feel I can use it on my own. Ideally I’d like to be able to ride alone, though perhaps MTB trails are not the right place to do that with the opportunity to go over the side, crash out of the trike or simply get stuck on a turn that is too tight for the turning circle. The pee thing is a valid consideration, and getting off to catheterise is not really an option for me. My intended is to use an IDC for long rides, possibly without a bag so it just drips on the ground as I ride. That way it shouldn’t be a concern at all for me.

                            Loose sand is not a common surface where I ride (which is nothing like desert in any way), but a wide turning circle is not ideal. Actually one of the tracks I used to enjoy goes along a section of coast and has both beach sand and loose shingle at various points, and I used to ride it on my fat bike. I’d really like to be able to ride that one alone, but it would need proper fat tyres (I used to use 4.8” on it, even when I tried a 3” tyre it wasn’t wide enough to float over the loose surface).

                            Maybe I need multiple trikes like I used to have multiple bikes (11 at the peak), but they are so much more expensive and much harder to store.

                            @Gordy and @mrb, there's a lot of discussion about whether power assist mountain bikes should be allowed on trails here, and that has resulted in different rules for different parks. A general situation seems to be that fully powered is not allowed. I think that is because a fully powered mountain bike is difficult to distinguish (in legal description at least) from an electric motorbike, and if electric motorbikes could be considered OK to use then it would be hard to stop regular motorbikes also. The desire to stop motorbikes from using the trails is one of safety (they climb a lot faster than pedal powered bikes) and also the trail damage they cause with extra weight and enough power to spin the driving wheel and tear up the surface. For a lot of MTB riders even power assist bikes are unwelcome because they can cause the same issues, though perhaps to a lesser extent.

                            I’m looking at breaktheboundary now.
                            T2 complete since late 2016. Apparently I wasn?t as good at mountain biking as I thought

                            I apologise that when I type an apostrophe it appears as a question mark. I post using an iPad and this is the only forum it happens on. I will fix it if I figure out how.

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