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  • Time for a new ultralight wheelchair

    My current TiLite ZR2 is 5 years old and I have a wheelchair fitting on 5/29/2018. I've only had TiLite and love the durability and weight. So far I've had the TRA series 1, ZR series 1, and now the ZR series 2. My problem now is making sure I get the lightest possible chair and I'm struggling with going with the TR series 3 and ZR series 3 with black series package, superlite package, non-adjustable fixed back, non-removable carbon fiber side guards profiled to the wheels, Roho Carbon Agility low contour 10" tall, carbon fiber seat pan, and with Roho Hybrid dual compartment and/or Ride Java (I have both).

    Current dimensions (new dimensions listed second)
    Seat Width 16", 16"
    Seat Length 18", 17"
    Front Seat Height 19.5", 18.5"
    Rear Seat Height 17", 16.5" (change to 2"dump)
    Seat to Foot Rest 17.5", 16.5" (legs swept under the chair a little)
    Rear wheel size 26", 25"
    COG 3", 3.5"
    Front Angle 85deg, 85deg (maybe 90deg but will need to get custom for 5x1.5 or 6x1.5 casters)
    Front Caster 4"x1.5, 5"x1.5" with slipstream

    I'm T7 complete ASIA A and 6' tall 16 years post injury. I want a slightly smaller footprint with the 17" seat length/depth and seat height with a 2" dump. I can't get under all tables so that's why I'm trying to lower it about 1". The seat to footrest height should allow my feet to be swept back a bit to accommodate the lower seat height. I'm very active with 2.5yo twins and I'm trying to make sure my new chair can be a bit easier to push on most terrain (gravel, packed dirt, grass, parks, etc.) which is why I want the 5"x1.5" (was hoping to get 6"x1.5" but will not be accommodated on the slipstream fork).

    Let me know what you guys think so far about these dimensions, pros/cons of the ZR vs TR, what some concerns you might have and if I'm on the right track.
    http://www.adaptivesportsforums.com/

    I love sports! Wheelchair Basketball, Sled Hockey, Mono-Skiing, and Handcycling.

  • #2
    I would definitely consider the Motion Composites Carbon fiber chairs, they make both folding ones the Veloce which is what I have and the non folding the APEX in either aluminum or Carbon Fiber. My chair is 17 wide and the frame weighs around 17 lbs. I'm also 6 feet tall. I've had mine over a year and no issue with it.
    "Life is about how you
    respond to not only the
    challenges you're dealt but
    the challenges you seek...If
    you have no goals, no
    mountains to climb, your
    soul dies".~Liz Fordred

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Curt Leatherbee View Post
      I would definitely consider the Motion Composites Carbon fiber chairs, they make both folding ones the Veloce which is what I have and the non folding the APEX in either aluminum or Carbon Fiber. My chair is 17 wide and the frame weighs around 17 lbs. I'm also 6 feet tall. I've had mine over a year and no issue with it.
      i agree with curt. im getting ready to order a carbon apex.
      Bike-on.com rep
      John@bike-on.com
      c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
      sponsored handcycle racer

      Comment


      • #4
        Here's another alternative for a great price.

        Push me to the limit,
        maybe I may bend,
        but I will not be broken.
        -Bonnie Raitt

        Comment


        • #5
          i've taken a look at the Apex and the carbon black, but with the way I transfer the wheelchair in and out, i'm worried the composite isn't going to be durable enough. I did ask my DME to see if they can get an Apex for me to check out as a demo. I dont think the carbon black is on the list for insurance to pay for it.
          http://www.adaptivesportsforums.com/

          I love sports! Wheelchair Basketball, Sled Hockey, Mono-Skiing, and Handcycling.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by outkastsl View Post
            ,,,I'm T7 complete ASIA A and 6' tall 16 years post injury. I want a slightly smaller footprint with the 17" seat length/depth and seat height with a 2" dump. I can't get under all tables so that's why I'm trying to lower it about 1". The seat to footrest height should allow my feet to be swept back a bit to accommodate the lower seat height. I'm very active with 2.5yo twins and I'm trying to make sure my new chair can be a bit easier to push on most terrain (gravel, packed dirt, grass, parks, etc.) which is why I want the 5"x1.5" (was hoping to get 6"x1.5" but will not be accommodated on the slipstream fork)....
            You might not like what I have to say, so be it. What is your main purpose, going out for dinner or playing with your kids? Dinner requires an a chair with a short wheelbase and low knee height and probably small wheels to fit in restaurants. Traveling over grass, cobbles, rough terrain etc works better with a long wheelbase and large casters. The best casters I have found that are more or less easily obtained are the 8 inch pneumatics. My feeling is that to play with your kids, fix up a chair off of Craigslist or where ever with 8 inchers or get it new to fit and use the old one inside only.
            I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

            Comment


            • #7
              We are very similar. I'm T8 and 5'11". I spec my wheelchair for indoors and attach a freewheel for grass and off road tires if necessary. I am changing my new wheelchair almost exactly the same way as you. Here is what I have and what I am ordering. Make sure you have enough dump. You need to be secure in the wheelchair when off-roading. 2" is minimum dump and add more depending on your balance and how hard you want to push. I found 1.5" dump wasn't good enough especially when leaning down to reach the footplate. If you have extra height then you need to compensate with even more dump. 3" would be even better for balance and pushing. But then it's harder to get in and out with a Ride Custom cushion (this is much less of an issue with a foam cushion). When I ordered my present wheelchair several years ago, I increased the height to better reach stuff. But I don't like the way I push when sitting too high. Strokes are shorter when sitting higher so it's less arm and more shoulder doing the work. When sitting lower I get more arm and less shoulder doing the work. Another reason to lower the seat height is because most stuff I transfer to is lower than my wheelchair so lowering the wheelchair makes transferring easier (most of the time). Decreasing the frame depth helps getting closer to stuff which helps transfers and access. 5" x 1.5" casters seem like a good idea. But they hit my shoes when turning. I go with 4" x 1.5" for the additional clearance.
              Attached Files
              Last edited by August West; 05-18-2018, 10:32 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                A properly tuned Freewheel will increase dump by ~1", so if you're planning on using a Freewheel you might want to account for this in your everyday spec.
                "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

                "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

                "Even what those with the greatest reputation for knowing it all claim to understand and defend are but opinions..." -Heraclitus, Fragments

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by August West View Post
                  We are very similar. I'm T8 and 5'11". I spec my wheelchair for indoors and attach a freewheel for grass and off road tires if necessary...
                  I forgot about the Freewheel, that is an excellent alternative. My three wheeler is patterned after the Freewheel design, shorter and smaller caster.
                  I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    did u increase ft angle to compensate for shorter frame?? im 6'2 and currently have a tr3 with 17w x16d + 2 inches. 85 frt angle. i was considering +3 on new ride or +2 with 80 frt end. im leggy, so my legs are bent at the knee a good bit, i find i move my feet forward often.
                    Originally posted by August West View Post
                    We are very similar. I'm T8 and 5'11". I spec my wheelchair for indoors and attach a freewheel for grass and off road tires if necessary. I am changing my new wheelchair almost exactly the same way as you. Here is what I have and what I am ordering. Make sure you have enough dump. You need to be secure in the wheelchair when off-roading. 2" is minimum dump and add more depending on your balance and how hard you want to push. I found 1.5" dump wasn't good enough especially when leaning down to reach the footplate. If you have extra height then you need to compensate with even more dump. 3" would be even better for balance and pushing. But then it's harder to get in and out with a Ride Custom cushion (this is much less of an issue with a foam cushion). When I ordered my present wheelchair several years ago, I increased the height to better reach stuff. But I don't like the way I push when sitting too high. Strokes are shorter when sitting higher so it's less arm and more shoulder doing the work. When sitting lower I get more arm and less shoulder doing the work. Another reason to lower the seat height is because most stuff I transfer to is lower than my wheelchair so lowering the wheelchair makes transferring easier (most of the time). Decreasing the frame depth helps getting closer to stuff which helps transfers and access. 5" x 1.5" casters seem like a good idea. But they hit my shoes when turning. I go with 4" x 1.5" for the additional clearance.
                    Bike-on.com rep
                    John@bike-on.com
                    c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
                    sponsored handcycle racer

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Any thought about a Lasher Magnesium?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by fuentejps View Post
                        did u increase ft angle to compensate for shorter frame?? im 6'2 and currently have a tr3 with 17w x16d + 2 inches. 85 frt angle. i was considering +3 on new ride or +2 with 80 frt end. im leggy, so my legs are bent at the knee a good bit, i find i move my feet forward often.
                        Yes, I increased the front angle bend in order to compensate for decreasing the frame depth from 18.5" to 16". Unless you have very long legs, what's the sense in the frame protruding several inches ahead of the seat depth? Doing so interferes with transfers. This wasn't a problem before but it has become a problem since my hip joints have loosened up to the point where my knees spread apart when transferring. The result of the front angle bend protruding several inches ahead of the seat is that it becomes a trap from my knee to enter the space under the bend and get stuck while transferring into the wheelchair. If the front angle bend starts immediately at the seat, then there is not enough space for the knee to enter the space underneath it.

                        I can't see a problem with eliminating the extra tubing in front of the seat as long as the down tubes are just slightly ahead of the shins (for protection). I do see a problem with reducing the user occupied depth, which is decreased stability. Still, I want to pull in my footrest to make transfers easier. Hence, I decreased the frame depth as much as possible without going negative (frame depth = seat depth) while decreasing the user occupied depth just a bit (22.8" -> 22") Even that may risk stability. That's a hard one to tell without actually building it or at least software simulation. I am waiting to see what TiLite says.

                        By the way, I am not a fan of 90 degree front angle bends because items fall off the luggage carriers. With an 85 degree front angle bend or less, items lean back and stay on. Items leaning back onto your shins risk pressure sores so you don't want to recess the frame depth too much. You want the down tubes just slightly ahead of your shins but no more than necessary to protect your shins.
                        Last edited by August West; 05-20-2018, 02:43 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by August West View Post
                          The result of the front angle bend protruding several inches ahead of the seat is that it becomes a trap from my knee to enter the space under the bend and get stuck while transferring into the wheelchair. If the front angle bend starts immediately at the seat, then there is not enough space for the knee to enter the space underneath it.
                          I have a very similarly sized ZR series 2 and I worry about this all the time. There's just enough room for my knee to get in there, and if I mess around one day and don't notice it flopped in there before I transfer it seems like a recipe for a snapped femur.

                          But anywho if you're sticking with the ZR vs TR side of things it looks like you've got it as light as you possibly can unless you can reduce the width.

                          Do you really need NEED 16" of width?

                          I'm 6' tall too, though I've always been fairly slim. My first chair was 16" wide because they wanted to give me room to "spread" as they put it. Well once the muscles atrophied away off my thighs, I fit into a 13" chair the next time around and it fits like a glove. I've got just enough room to slide the fingers of one hand between my hip and the side guard, but definitely cannot stick a hand on each side at the same time. makes for a very slightly lighter chair, but also a better fitting more responsive chair

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            im opposite i like the extra tubing, more grab area and really works better with my long legs. everyone is different. good luck.
                            Originally posted by August West View Post
                            Yes, I increased the front angle bend in order to compensate for decreasing the frame depth from 18.5" to 16". Unless you have very long legs, what's the sense in the frame protruding several inches ahead of the seat depth? Doing so interferes with transfers. This wasn't a problem before but it has become a problem since my hip joints have loosened up to the point where my knees spread apart when transferring. The result of the front angle bend protruding several inches ahead of the seat is that it becomes a trap from my knee to enter the space under the bend and get stuck while transferring into the wheelchair. If the front angle bend starts immediately at the seat, then there is not enough space for the knee to enter the space underneath it.

                            I can't see a problem with eliminating the extra tubing in front of the seat as long as the down tubes are just slightly ahead of the shins (for protection). I do see a problem with reducing the user occupied depth, which is decreased stability. Still, I want to pull in my footrest to make transfers easier. Hence, I decreased the frame depth as much as possible without going negative (frame depth = seat depth) while decreasing the user occupied depth just a bit (22.8" -> 22") Even that may risk stability. That's a hard one to tell without actually building it or at least software simulation. I am waiting to see what TiLite says.

                            By the way, I am not a fan of 90 degree front angle bends because items fall off the luggage carriers. With an 85 degree front angle bend or less, items lean back and stay on. Items leaning back onto your shins risk pressure sores so you don't want to recess the frame depth too much. You want the down tubes just slightly ahead of your shins but no more than necessary to protect your shins.
                            Bike-on.com rep
                            John@bike-on.com
                            c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
                            sponsored handcycle racer

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by nonoise View Post
                              You might not like what I have to say, so be it. What is your main purpose, going out for dinner or playing with your kids? Dinner requires an a chair with a short wheelbase and low knee height and probably small wheels to fit in restaurants. Traveling over grass, cobbles, rough terrain etc works better with a long wheelbase and large casters. The best casters I have found that are more or less easily obtained are the 8 inch pneumatics. My feeling is that to play with your kids, fix up a chair off of Craigslist or where ever with 8 inchers or get it new to fit and use the old one inside only.
                              Thank you for your input. This is for an everyday chair that will be optimal at best for an indoor/pavement chair, with some versatility with a 5"x1.5" (maybe 4x1.5") front caster. I do have a freewheel and for hiking and complete offroad type trials, I'll utilize that. The wheelbase information is spot on, but I think I'll deal with slightly shorter wheelbase for overall maneuverability. I also have a set of spinergy wheels with 2.5" tires that I use for camping and all terrain usage.

                              Originally posted by August West View Post
                              We are very similar. I'm T8 and 5'11". I spec my wheelchair for indoors and attach a freewheel for grass and off road tires if necessary. I am changing my new wheelchair almost exactly the same way as you. Here is what I have and what I am ordering. Make sure you have enough dump. You need to be secure in the wheelchair when off-roading. 2" is minimum dump and add more depending on your balance and how hard you want to push. I found 1.5" dump wasn't good enough especially when leaning down to reach the footplate. If you have extra height then you need to compensate with even more dump. 3" would be even better for balance and pushing. But then it's harder to get in and out with a Ride Custom cushion (this is much less of an issue with a foam cushion). When I ordered my present wheelchair several years ago, I increased the height to better reach stuff. But I don't like the way I push when sitting too high. Strokes are shorter when sitting higher so it's less arm and more shoulder doing the work. When sitting lower I get more arm and less shoulder doing the work. Another reason to lower the seat height is because most stuff I transfer to is lower than my wheelchair so lowering the wheelchair makes transferring easier (most of the time). Decreasing the frame depth helps getting closer to stuff which helps transfers and access. 5" x 1.5" casters seem like a good idea. But they hit my shoes when turning. I go with 4" x 1.5" for the additional clearance.
                              I currently use a 2.5" dump but think I would be fine with a 2" dump. I have a 3" dump on my basketball chair and for everyday purposes the 2" or 2.5" dump should suffice. My current height and planned decrease of height by 1" should keep me in a very comfortable push stroke similar to my basketball chair. I am keeping in mind my shoulder health and push efficiency as I have had a torn labrum and shoulder tendonitis already. If I decide to go with the 5x1.5" casters I do plan on having 85deg angle with a taper to a 10" footrest width (currently 12") and with the CAD I would make sure my feet have enough clearance for the caster.

                              Originally posted by Stsmark View Post
                              Any thought about a Lasher Magnesium?
                              I don't believe Lasher is approved by medicare...which means my private insurance through work would not pay for it. I have great coverage for private insurance so I would have to stick to that since it covers 100% of everything I ordered in the past 3 years including a smart drive and my spinergy carbon blade wheels.
                              http://www.adaptivesportsforums.com/

                              I love sports! Wheelchair Basketball, Sled Hockey, Mono-Skiing, and Handcycling.

                              Comment

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