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    Frontier V6 All-terrain chair

    I?ve long been considering purchasing an ?all-terrain? power chair as a secondary, purely recreational chair (my primary chair is a Permobil F3), to use at the beach, etc. Originally I had looked into the X8, but I was turned off my the cost, size, limited maneuverability, and the fact that basic features were expensive upgrades (being able to reverse in a straight line!). More recently I?ve been researching the Frontier X5 (now X6), which had been available in a MWD all-terrain version. I see now it is available in a FWD version. Being familiar with FWD already, I think for starters that model would be preferable. But would a FWD all terrain chair not be preferable in sand and the majority of off-road terrain, because of the lack of front casters?


    Also, for those that may have ordered these chairs online, is the ordering process pretty straight forward (seat depth/width)?
    Last edited by landrover; 18 Mar 2018, 7:40 PM.

    #2
    Landrover...email my friend Todd at Innovation In Motion...http://www.mobility-usa.com/

    todd-libey@mobility-usa.com He can answer a lot of questions you might have with the different chairs and he can guide you in to a DME in your area that might be able to help.

    Have a x5 and love it had it for years great in the city and on the beach!

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      #3
      Thanks

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        #4
        Originally posted by landrover View Post
        I?ve long been considering purchasing an ?all-terrain? power chair as a secondary, purely recreational chair (my primary chair is a Permobil F3), to use at the beach, etc. Originally I had looked into the X8, but I was turned off my the cost, size, limited maneuverability, and the fact that basic features were expensive upgrades (being able to reverse in a straight line!). More recently I?ve been researching the Frontier X5 (now X6), which had been available in a MWD all-terrain version. I see now it is available in a FWD version. Being familiar with FWD already, I think for starters that model would be preferable. But would a FWD all terrain chair not be preferable in sand and the majority of off-road terrain, because of the lack of front casters?


        Also, for those that may have ordered these chairs online, is the ordering process pretty straight forward (seat depth/width)?
        I've had an X5 for around 13 years and let me tell you- it's a beast. Knock wood I haven't had any issues with it except for flat casters. But, I replaced the casters with solid wheels to avoid future problems. When I used it to cut my grass the motors would get hot and go into safety (crawl) type mode for a few minutes, but the grass had to be tall for that to happen.

        The mid-wheel drive makes the chair more maneuverable than the front or rear drive, but there are more wheels to get hung up in things too. If you pick your path smartly the chair won't leave you down. Oh- but mine never was great in soft sand.
        Dave

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          #5
          Originally posted by Herco16 View Post
          I've had an X5 for around 13 years and let me tell you- it's a beast. Knock wood I haven't had any issues with it except for flat casters. But, I replaced the casters with solid wheels to avoid future problems. When I used it to cut my grass the motors would get hot and go into safety (crawl) type mode for a few minutes, but the grass had to be tall for that to happen.

          The mid-wheel drive makes the chair more maneuverable than the front or rear drive, but there are more wheels to get hung up in things too. If you pick your path smartly the chair won't leave you down. Oh- but mine never was great in soft sand.

          Not sure where you are getting a mid wheel is more maneuverable then a front wheel?

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            #6
            Originally posted by RollPositive View Post
            Not sure where you are getting a mid wheel is more maneuverable then a front wheel?
            Regarding performance on sand, this is feedback I received from Frontier:

            My personal opinion (20 yrs experience) is that the MWD will out preform the FWD on sand. The MWD has 6 wheels instead of 4 on the FWD. the 6 wheels allow more floatation on the sand and is better balanced front to back. A FWD tends to pull and dig in and the rear casters sink because there is more weight on them. I don't want you to get me wrong the V6 FWD will out preform any other FWD outdoors, but the V6 MWD goes through softer sand. Depending on the beaches and the type of sand the FWD may be just fine for you. As far as trails the FWD does very well, but up hill is a bit of a challenge if it is steep. FWD chairs in general pull the weight of the chair and person from the front so when you go up steep hills all the weight shifts to the back of the chair (onto the casters) and the causes the front wheels to slip. That is just the nature of the Front wheel drive.

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              #7
              I've never seen a mid-wheel out preform a front wheel. Might be more manueverable but as soon as the drive wheels drop in little dip, you're spinning.
              "It is every man's obligation to put back into the world at least the equivalent of what he takes out of it. Try not to become a man of success but rather try to become a man of value." - Albert Einstein

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                #8
                Landrover I was asking in general and not Frontier specific...

                I remember when I had a order in for a new m300 and at the last minute did a demo on an new F3, I went on a 10 mile run and loved the chair it was by far the best handling chair ever!

                Even though it felt like I was going to fall out forward I knew in time that would go away just like the back end swap we all had going from rear wheel drive to mid wheel.

                As soon as I got home I called NuMotion and had the ATP change the order.

                ATP and Ot/PT got all upset tried to talk me out of it...

                If I got a dollar from every industry insider telling me it would be the biggest mistake ever I would be rich!

                Mark Smith from Pride was the biggest blow heart with all the issues the F3 had and the industry cant believe Permobil would put out a chair with that many concerns and issues!

                But what I learned was they all were wrong and the front wheel drive out performs mid wheel in all and any gauge of measurement for me and my life style.

                From travel durability, tight area maneuverability, large crowd use, comfort and dexterity.

                Now regarding the Frontier I have a x5 and when I roll in the sand the caster tires float over the sand and never really do much.

                I dont use the bulky casters on the x5 upgraded to a small air filled 8" kiteboard tire.

                https://www.mbs.com/parts/13241-mbs-...ro-hub-black-1

                https://www.mbs.com/parts/13101-8-mb...e-tire-black-1

                So I would have to try a front wheel drive, dont do steep off road so no an issue but more sand rolling and beach rolling for me.

                But if I was going to buy a Frontier my 1st try would be front wheel because I know how mid wheel performs.

                Last edited by RollinPositive; 7 Jun 2018, 6:39 PM.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by DeadEye View Post
                  I've never seen a mid-wheel out preform a front wheel. Might be more manueverable but as soon as the drive wheels drop in little dip, you're spinning.

                  100%!!

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by RollPositive View Post
                    Not sure where you are getting a mid wheel is more maneuverable then a front wheel?
                    A mid-wheel drive chair like the Frontier X5 will turn around in its own footprint. You can't do that in a front wheel drive because the rear wheels swing around.
                    Dave

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Herco16 View Post
                      A mid-wheel drive chair like the Frontier X5 will turn around in its own footprint. You can't do that in a front wheel drive because the rear wheels swing around.
                      I can turn a much tighter area in my F3 then I can in any mid wheel...You dont have the front casters getting in the way!

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by RollPositive View Post
                        I can turn a much tighter area in my F3 then I can in any mid wheel...You dont have the front casters getting in the way!
                        I think the confusion comes with people who think turning radius equates to maneuverability. Turning radius occurs when you are sitting in one spot, so under those circumstances you don't take as much space. Maneuverability deals with how you move and navigate. Let's say you want to turn into a doorway. With a FWD, you turn as soon as your front wheels reach the opening. Now, if you were stopped, it is true that the rear of the chair would swing out, potentially hitting things. But since you are moving, the rear of the chair just ends up following the front end into the opening. If the turn is timed correctly, the rear doesn't swing out at all, and the turn takes place without using hardly any room. With a RWD chair, you can't really initiate the turn until the rear wheels reach the opening (unless you have a wide approach). The same thing, to a lesser degree, occurs with a MWD chair. This means that both of those chairs require a wider opening to make the turn. However, it is true that when trying to fit into tight spaces, where one has to do slow back and forth "wiggles", it is better to be in a MWD chair.
                        C-6/7 incomplete

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Kulea View Post
                          I think the confusion comes with people who think turning radius equates to maneuverability. Turning radius occurs when you are sitting in one spot, so under those circumstances you don't take as much space. Maneuverability deals with how you move and navigate. Let's say you want to turn into a doorway. With a FWD, you turn as soon as your front wheels reach the opening. Now, if you were stopped, it is true that the rear of the chair would swing out, potentially hitting things. But since you are moving, the rear of the chair just ends up following the front end into the opening. If the turn is timed correctly, the rear doesn't swing out at all, and the turn takes place without using hardly any room. With a RWD chair, you can't really initiate the turn until the rear wheels reach the opening (unless you have a wide approach). The same thing, to a lesser degree, occurs with a MWD chair. This means that both of those chairs require a wider opening to make the turn. However, it is true that when trying to fit into tight spaces, where one has to do slow back and forth "wiggles", it is better to be in a MWD chair.
                          Here's a visual way of looking at it. Imagine trying to get your car into a very narrow parking space. If you are backing in (simulating a FWD chair) it isn't too difficult. Turning into the space going forward requires you to start wide so that you can finish the turn before you even enter the space (or a lot of back and forths to align yourself with the space. If your car was a MWD, likewise you would need a wide enough approach to complete the turn in advance, or do some back and forths.
                          C-6/7 incomplete

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Kulea View Post
                            Here's a visual way of looking at it. Imagine trying to get your car into a very narrow parking space. If you are backing in (simulating a FWD chair) it isn't too difficult. Turning into the space going forward requires you to start wide so that you can finish the turn before you even enter the space (or a lot of back and forths to align yourself with the space. If your car was a MWD, likewise you would need a wide enough approach to complete the turn in advance, or do some back and forths.
                            Here's another example of where a MWD doesn't do well. Let's say you have to do the equivalent of parallel parking, where you have to park your chair between objects and along side a wall, but as close to it as possible. In a FWD chair you pull in forward until your drive wheel hits the wall then pivot and, boom, you're there. Likewise with a RWD you back in until the drive wheel hits the wall and pivot. But, with a MWD there is no way to end up really close to the wall without doing some back and forths.

                            BTW- apologies to the OP for hijacking your thread.
                            C-6/7 incomplete

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by RollPositive View Post
                              I can turn a much tighter area in my F3 then I can in any mid wheel...You dont have the front casters getting in the way!
                              Good for you.

                              My front castors don't get in the way because they're behind my feet which hang directly beneath me at a 90-degree angle.
                              Dave

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