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  • NuMotion failed me bad

    Ihave spent the whole year of 2017 going through ?The Process?with NuMotion (located in Pensacola, Florida) and Rob Ford to get achair, a TiLite Aero Z, built for me. Finally on November 9thmy TiLite Aero Z arrived. I transferred into the chair. Oh My Gosh.My hips are firmly pressing the wheels. I could not propel the chair.The delivery person (cant recall his name) was just as surprised as Iwas. He agreed that this chair would not work. The seat width is toonarrow. He took two pictures one on either side showing how my hipswere hitting the wheels. So I got out of the chair and he took itwith him. So I waited and waited to hear something back. As usual Ihad to call them. Rob Ford suggested using wheel spacers. I said NO!That to me is Jerry-rigging. I don't need wheel spacers, I need awider seat. NuMotion's final solution? ?We don't think we cansatisfy you, but we can refer you to someone.? If Rob Ford'smeasurements were incorrect, he should get a slap on the wrist andmake it right, not send me somewhere else. So now I'm at a loss as towhere to go to have the proper chair built. I would also like to makea formal complaint to TiLite. As a head start I have 2 CADs and anorder form for the chair. Where do I go from here?

  • #2
    A year or so ago Numotion measured me incorrectly. I needed a 16" and they ordered a 17". The 17" came and I said no way. I suspect the expert fitter threw in an extra inch for arse expansion but she denied that and said she just wrote it down on the order form wrong. They did not provide a new chair but instead proposed adding an extender to the cross joints. This effectively raises the chair a little more than an inch but allows them to drop and inch from the width. I don't like my chair. It is my 3rd Quickie 2HP. The first two were fine but this one is awkward. The primary reason I order the same chair is so I don't have fit issues. I suspect I could change the casters and rear wheel axles to dial it in a little better but when I do that I usually screw something else up.

    I don't like NuMotion at all. I feel like everytime I deal with them it is like throwing a hail mary pass. For something as important as getting a good fitting wheelchair, I don't feel I should be hoping for a miracle.

    Comment


    • #3
      did you sign off on improper cad? we have to be our own advocates and use these dme ppl as nothing more than order takers they generally are clueless. does chair match cad?? whenever I do a chair order for a customer I review cad with them so they have a copy and wont order until they are happy with cad and sign and date it.
      was the dme rep in a chair?? if not, huge red flag.
      Originally posted by busterskid View Post
      Ihave spent the whole year of 2017 going through ?The Process?with NuMotion (located in Pensacola, Florida) and Rob Ford to get achair, a TiLite Aero Z, built for me. Finally on November 9thmy TiLite Aero Z arrived. I transferred into the chair. Oh My Gosh.My hips are firmly pressing the wheels. I could not propel the chair.The delivery person (cant recall his name) was just as surprised as Iwas. He agreed that this chair would not work. The seat width is toonarrow. He took two pictures one on either side showing how my hipswere hitting the wheels. So I got out of the chair and he took itwith him. So I waited and waited to hear something back. As usual Ihad to call them. Rob Ford suggested using wheel spacers. I said NO!That to me is Jerry-rigging. I don't need wheel spacers, I need awider seat. NuMotion's final solution? ?We don't think we cansatisfy you, but we can refer you to someone.? If Rob Ford'smeasurements were incorrect, he should get a slap on the wrist andmake it right, not send me somewhere else. So now I'm at a loss as towhere to go to have the proper chair built. I would also like to makea formal complaint to TiLite. As a head start I have 2 CADs and anorder form for the chair. Where do I go from here?
      Bike-on.com rep
      John@bike-on.com
      c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
      sponsored handcycle racer

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by fuentejps View Post
        was the dme rep in a chair?? if not, huge red flag.
        Finding a durable medical equipment supplier who is a chair user in most markets in the United States is just not going to happen. Not a huge red flag at all.

        I am 35 years post injury and have never met any one on the durable medical equipment supply side that is a wheelchair user. That doesn't mean I haven't gotten good service from a supplier. Why would you put the onus on anyone on this forum that unless they could find a wheelchair using durable medical equipment suppler that there is a red flag right there? That just isn't fair or reasonable.

        The real issue is that getting a good chair fit should involve a competent physical or occupational therapist to vet the work of the durable medial equipment supplier. The reality is that just because a person is a chair user doesn't mean that they will understand the range of issues from high level quads to low level paras.
        Last edited by gjnl; 01-07-2018, 12:15 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          I do believe there will be some chair using dmes out there I know there are some in the designing process and I agree that more dmes need to hire therapists

          Comment


          • #6
            Sorry, this is mostly venting over our problem:
            Measurements? Last time went with what was measured by DME person the seat was about 5" to wide and 4" to deep. No seat dump and told to keep in tilt to have seat dump. I took the chair, my fault on the promise that they would replace backrest, new seatpan and cushion. After couple months called to ask DME about parts was told needed to wait at least 6 months before changes could be done. DME had went out of business before that 6 months was over.

            DME we used for many years after that sold his shop to national company. I sure miss those folks!!!!!
            Since just about every independent DME's have either closed or sold to national DME companies it's a joke! Well a joke that for some reason I can't laugh at!
            Anyway, we spent several months last year waiting while we thought order had been placed to find nothing had been done at all other than Demos when we picked the chair wanted and discussed the measurements. Ought to have known was bull since the person doing order was understandable about measurements.
            We put new chairs on hold and using backup chairs cause last new ones are brokedown. Hope backups last while since have nothing in reserve now for backup chairs.

            Comment


            • #7
              I hear nothing but bad stuff about Numotion those guys don't have a clue. Also agree ordering from a DME company that employs chair users are the best to use when ordering a chair. www.indemedical.com is one of those companies. Both owners are Para's T-10 and L-1 paras both have been in the chair 24 plus years. Nick Mireles and Mike Benge. We started this company to give people other options.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by nmireles View Post
                I hear nothing but bad stuff about Numotion those guys don't have a clue. Also agree ordering from a DME company that employs chair users are the best to use when ordering a chair. www.indemedical.com is one of those companies. Both owners are Para's T-10 and L-1 paras both have been in the chair 24 plus years. Nick Mireles and Mike Benge. We started this company to give people other options.
                yep, many online dealers are in chairs as are many mfr reps. good ppl at inde med.
                same with us at bike-on.com owner Scott Pellett is a para, I'm a quad etc.
                I'm not a fan of pt's and ot's either specing chairs, if someone isn't a chair user its really tough to know what we deal with rolling etc. I think we as a community need to educate each other like we do here on the ins/outs of chair specing.
                NEVER let ANYONE tell you what you need, we tell them what we need and how the chair will be built.
                Bike-on.com rep
                John@bike-on.com
                c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
                sponsored handcycle racer

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you are buying a chair with private insurance or out of pocket, you may have the luxury of using online dealers with wheelchair users employees/owners.

                  But, if you looking to Medicare to fund your chair, there are strict guidelines to follow and designated providers you must use. Most on line suppliers, if any, don't accept Medicare reimbursement as payment for a chair, and they aren't a Medicare designated supplier. Medicare does not permit you to buy a chair from any supplier and submit a bill for direct reimbursement. All equipment that Medicare pays for is by assignment of payment to the supplier.

                  Further, Medicare requires that an occupational (OT) or physical (PT) therapist provide an evaluation of a person's level of injury and function. Usually at that evaluation appointment, a durable medical equipment supplier must be present to take measurements, provide information on chairs available appropriate to level of injury and function, and have a few sample chairs available. Based upon that appointment and the input from the therapist and the supplier, a prescription must be written that your doctor must sign, It is best, if you can work with the supplier at another appointment, to demo a few chairs. Once you select a chair that is specified with equipment you need and the prescription is signed, the supplier submits the prescription and identified chair information to Medicare for approval. Once approval is received, the chair is ordered by the supplier. The supplier is required by Medicare to deliver the chair to you and make any adjustments necessary to make the chair work for you.

                  Whether you have to use the Medicare model or private pay, I couldn't agree with John more...you need to know your needs, you need to know the chairs available and the equipment you require and let the therapists and the supplier know what you want and expect in a chair.

                  Just a note to the point of the original post, I haven't heard much in praise of NuMotion either. They have offices all over the United States, so possibly they have better representatives and support at one office than another, but generally, I have steered away from using them when it is time to get a new chair.
                  Last edited by gjnl; 01-07-2018, 03:30 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ive had problems with them miss measuring me and saying oh youll get used to it my last chair was a nightmare i hate bashing people and companies but there horriblle
                    to alcohol the cause of-and solution to-all of lifes problems [homer simpson]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      NuMotion is great with sleep apnea supplies. It's hard to screw that up.

                      NuMotion has no business working with custom DME. They're a COMPLETE JOKE when it comes to custom DME! They don't now what they're doing!

                      For the life of me, I can't understand how we have lost so much ground in this area. This is truly shameful!!!!!!!! I was injured in 1989 and it was 100x better than today.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I wouldn't say this is unique to Numotion by any means. They are a horrible, horrible company with piss poor customer service and incompetent staff, but that's par for the course in the DME market. I have yet to hear someone say they loved their DME provider and the national chains (like Numotion) are absolutely terrible when it comes to getting a custom chair.

                        The way I look at it is the DME provider is the punishment I have to endure so the insurance company will pay a couple thousand bucks for a new chair.

                        Basically it's like this:

                        1. It's MY job to tell the DME provider EXACTLY what I want: chair type, dimensions, options, cushion, backrest, EVERYTHING. because they aren't interested in the least in getting me what I need, and would greatly prefer to sell me a generic mobility scooter where their manhours are much less.

                        2. After I tell the DME provider what I want, it's MY job to call them twice weekly and prod them along (because apparently they don't have competent managers/supervisors either) until they show me that they have submitted to insurance EXACTLY what I ordered (and I expect this to take about 6-10 times going back and forth with my order and their misinterpretation of my order until they get it right).

                        3. After the DME finally sends the right order off to the manufacturer, it's my job to force them with extreme annoyance, multiple phone calls and emails to get the CAD drawing from the manufacturer so I can make sure that what I told them to order and confirmed that they ordered was accurately understood by the manufacturer.

                        4. After 12-24 months of wrangling with the incompetence of the DME it's my job to make sure my chair is properly assembled and I've received everything as ordered once the chair actually arrives.


                        I feel competent to do most of that now.

                        It's kind of like a right of passage to have a terrible, horrible chair for 5 years your first time around so you learn how to do the job the DME is supposed to do in order to get it closer to right the next time around.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by funklab View Post
                          I wouldn't say this is unique to Numotion by any means. They are a horrible, horrible company with piss poor customer service and incompetent staff, but that's par for the course in the DME market. I have yet to hear someone say they loved their DME provider and the national chains (like Numotion) are absolutely terrible when it comes to getting a custom chair.

                          The way I look at it is the DME provider is the punishment I have to endure so the insurance company will pay a couple thousand bucks for a new chair.

                          Basically it's like this:

                          1. It's MY job to tell the DME provider EXACTLY what I want: chair type, dimensions, options, cushion, backrest, EVERYTHING. because they aren't interested in the least in getting me what I need, and would greatly prefer to sell me a generic mobility scooter where their manhours are much less.

                          2. After I tell the DME provider what I want, it's MY job to call them twice weekly and prod them along (because apparently they don't have competent managers/supervisors either) until they show me that they have submitted to insurance EXACTLY what I ordered (and I expect this to take about 6-10 times going back and forth with my order and their misinterpretation of my order until they get it right).

                          3. After the DME finally sends the right order off to the manufacturer, it's my job to force them with extreme annoyance, multiple phone calls and emails to get the CAD drawing from the manufacturer so I can make sure that what I told them to order and confirmed that they ordered was accurately understood by the manufacturer.

                          4. After 12-24 months of wrangling with the incompetence of the DME it's my job to make sure my chair is properly assembled and I've received everything as ordered once the chair actually arrives.


                          I feel competent to do most of that now.

                          It's kind of like a right of passage to have a terrible, horrible chair for 5 years your first time around so you learn how to do the job the DME is supposed to do in order to get it closer to right the next time around.
                          The DMEs have also figured out that all you have to do for customer service is hire a generic low grade call center in India to fend off your customers. I suspect the insurers expect that some of us will die before they have to fill the order and thus recoup a couple K in savings.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            bingo, I couldn't agree more.
                            Originally posted by funklab View Post
                            I wouldn't say this is unique to Numotion by any means. They are a horrible, horrible company with piss poor customer service and incompetent staff, but that's par for the course in the DME market. I have yet to hear someone say they loved their DME provider and the national chains (like Numotion) are absolutely terrible when it comes to getting a custom chair.

                            The way I look at it is the DME provider is the punishment I have to endure so the insurance company will pay a couple thousand bucks for a new chair.

                            Basically it's like this:

                            1. It's MY job to tell the DME provider EXACTLY what I want: chair type, dimensions, options, cushion, backrest, EVERYTHING. because they aren't interested in the least in getting me what I need, and would greatly prefer to sell me a generic mobility scooter where their manhours are much less.

                            2. After I tell the DME provider what I want, it's MY job to call them twice weekly and prod them along (because apparently they don't have competent managers/supervisors either) until they show me that they have submitted to insurance EXACTLY what I ordered (and I expect this to take about 6-10 times going back and forth with my order and their misinterpretation of my order until they get it right).

                            3. After the DME finally sends the right order off to the manufacturer, it's my job to force them with extreme annoyance, multiple phone calls and emails to get the CAD drawing from the manufacturer so I can make sure that what I told them to order and confirmed that they ordered was accurately understood by the manufacturer.

                            4. After 12-24 months of wrangling with the incompetence of the DME it's my job to make sure my chair is properly assembled and I've received everything as ordered once the chair actually arrives.


                            I feel competent to do most of that now.

                            It's kind of like a right of passage to have a terrible, horrible chair for 5 years your first time around so you learn how to do the job the DME is supposed to do in order to get it closer to right the next time around.
                            Bike-on.com rep
                            John@bike-on.com
                            c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
                            sponsored handcycle racer

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              For those of us whose first custom chair was facilitated by good staff at a facility that NuMotion is (extremely) responsive to, the real life experience of contending directly with DMEs is a big shock. I am really really conflict/confrontation averse - dealing directly with NuMotion has pretty much cured me.

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