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    #16
    When I got my chair, Ti added an extra 1 inch to length in the CAD, and when I asked why and said I did not want the extra length, they said no, they would not change it back. This was 5 or 6 years ago, at least.
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

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      #17
      TiLite builds their chairs with a 90 degree front bend angle unless you specify otherwise. With a 90 degree bend, the user occupied depth (distance from back rest to foot plate) and seat tube length increase/decrease at a 1:1 ratio. Hence if you need to increase the user occupied depth by 1" for stability that results in the seat tube length increasing by 1".

      It doesn't have to be this way. They can add the extra 1" to the user occupied depth without adding it to the seat tubes simply by decreasing the front bend angle less than 90 degrees. They won't volunteer this information. You have to make the request. They probably prefer 90 degree bends because they are cookie cutter vs some arbitrary value. Hence, they probably want to promote 90 degree bends. But that should't be our problem.

      To specify the front angle bend that increases the user occupied depth by X while leaving the seat tube depth unchanged, use this formula:

      front angle bend = tan-1 (Y/X) where Y is the front height.

      For example, if the front height is 17" and they want to add 1" to the user occupied depth for stability but you don't want any extra length added to the seat tubing, then specify a front bend angle of tan-1(17) = 86.6 degrees.
      Last edited by August West; 7 Dec 2017, 1:13 AM.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Oddity View Post
        FYI They'll add length for Froglegs, also, iirc.
        I think this is one of those "sometimes" situations. I am on my third TR and all have had suspension forks, the first two FL and my current Out-front. The first two Ti made the front end length exactly as I spec'd them on the order form, one was +1" and the other 0.75", and they were made exactly that way and I did not qualify to them they must be that way. On my current, third TR, when looking at the CAD I was concerned about the numbers, they didn't seem to add up compared to my previous TR CAD. (I know they leave wiggle room, but I wasn't willing to have wiggle room.) Numerous emails were swapped until it was clear I wanted exactly +1", no more, no less, and that is what I did get.
        C5-6 Complete - 8/13/1982

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          #19
          Originally posted by Brianm View Post
          I think this is one of those "sometimes" situations. I am on my third TR and all have had suspension forks, the first two FL and my current Out-front. The first two Ti made the front end length exactly as I spec'd them on the order form, one was +1" and the other 0.75", and they were made exactly that way and I did not qualify to them they must be that way. On my current, third TR, when looking at the CAD I was concerned about the numbers, they didn't seem to add up compared to my previous TR CAD. (I know they leave wiggle room, but I wasn't willing to have wiggle room.) Numerous emails were swapped until it was clear I wanted exactly +1", no more, no less, and that is what I did get.
          Ahhh, cool. I reckon they didn?t need to add anything since you had already spec?d The extra inch?
          "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

          "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

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            #20
            Originally posted by Junkyarddog View Post
            I just went through the same process with Top End. After the preliminary cad was drawn I made some revisions and spoke with the draftsmen who I made the changes with and he e-mail the results
            right after he made the changes. I requested the extra frame depth and the OPL. Now I can check the chair measurements against the cad before I accept it. I'll attach the cad drawing for reference.

            I didn?t realize Top End provided this level of customer service. Good to know. They should advertise that fact!!
            "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

            "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

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              #21
              Originally posted by Oddity View Post
              Ahhh, cool. I reckon they didn?t need to add anything since you had already spec?d The extra inch?
              That very well be the case and/or my spec's as a whole work. I am not sure why there would always need to be about 1" no matter what.
              C5-6 Complete - 8/13/1982

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                #22
                Originally posted by Brianm View Post
                That very well be the case and/or my spec's as a whole work. I am not sure why there would always need to be about 1" no matter what.

                Yeah, I don?t know either. I had always just assumed it was to compensate in some way for the compression of the elastomers.
                "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

                "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

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                  #23
                  where's Chas been? I feel like I haven't seen him post in a while, and he's usually all over these types of topics.
                  Rollin' since '89. Complete C8

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Oddity View Post
                    Yeah, I don?t know either. I had always just assumed it was to compensate in some way for the compression of the elastomers.
                    If they do add some chair length, that may very well be their reasoning. My questioning the need, right or wrong, is that it seems to me that not all setups would require it, where the chair spec's do not warrant it. Anyway, it is all speculation; it would be nice if it was clarified so there were no surprises. On a side note, the elastomers do not cause much travel difference in my experience.
                    C5-6 Complete - 8/13/1982

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                      #25
                      “Frame bend will start .5” in front of seat sling unless Custom Frame Depth is specified or the combination of specifications affect the rolling dynamics of the chair.” Directly from tilite aero t and tra order form when selecting depth.

                      I know previously when I ordered my tilite 4 years ago there was a note when ordering a 90 degree front that they would automatically make it a +1. It seems as though they are a little more flexible now but they still make it clear that it is based on rolling dynamics which I am guessing are built into their CAD system. Also consider rear wheel placement based on center of gravity and front caster wheels. Compact is nice but too compact can be dangerous.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Brianm View Post
                        If they do add some chair length, that may very well be their reasoning. My questioning the need, right or wrong, is that it seems to me that not all setups would require it, where the chair spec's do not warrant it. Anyway, it is all speculation; it would be nice if it was clarified so there were no surprises. On a side note, the elastomers do not cause much travel difference in my experience.
                        For Sure, you?d be hard pressed (pun intended) to get more than .5? of compression on even a worn out elastomer. But, if that small amount pushes the chair over the line, like it did with my former teammates setup, it?s a death trap! A little change can have outsized impact on stability on an already unstable prone setup (short, tall, no dump, 90deg front, etc.)
                        "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

                        "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

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