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  • #46
    Originally posted by Fast Joey View Post
    Researching away here. and all this info is awesome...but...actually doing it is something I don't think I'm going to be able to tackle. I got my insurance on the phone, and they DO cover the batteries...actually TWO when needed at an 80/20 ratio once I've met my deductible. The new ones are $950 (ouch!), but that boils down to $190 after insurance. Which...if I actually bought the 40 batteries myself would be real close to that....even more if they are 5 bucks a pop.

    I think once I have her new ones, if I can find those batteries cheaper, I'd feel much more confident in cracking her old case opening and having a go at this. At that point, if I screw it up...it won't matter, I can toss the whole project lol...
    So if you are going to go ahead and get two brand new batteries, you won't need to update the old one, that is the good news. The warning here is that those two new ones must never be left idle, sidelined will self destruct. That is the way with NiMH chemistry. The good news is that by rotating batteries every other day she can get twice the life.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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    • #47
      Believe me, her battery NEVER sits idle. She is in the chair all day long depending on it to keep her going. I just figured once I have the new ones, nothing can stop me from experimenting away with the "junk" one to see just how it goes and not have to worry about it if I screw it up.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Fast Joey View Post
        Believe me, her battery NEVER sits idle. She is in the chair all day long depending on it to keep her going. I just figured once I have the new ones, nothing can stop me from experimenting away with the "junk" one to see just how it goes and not have to worry about it if I screw it up.
        I thought you meant you planned to get two new insurance batteries. And if you did one might tend to get neglected, that's what I meant.

        There is nothing to screw up with the old battery. If you break something taking it apart, just continue on and do it my way which I think is the best anyway.
        I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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        • #49
          Yup, that's exactly what I meant...those new ones will go into rotation so we'll get twice the life out of them.

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          • #50
            This is a question for maddog (or anyone else that has done this) based on his prior replacement of the original iGlide/Tailwind NiMH cells with higher rated cells. I am repairing a battery pack for a friend and he wants to keep the chair as original as possible so no battery chemistry swap. I have already opened the case and removed the original cells. I have found 6v 5000mah NiMH sub-c stick packs at Maxxpacks.com that look like they would be pretty simple to swap in but I want to make sure there won't be any problems with the original Panasonic charger or in-pack electronics. Will the original charger work well with the higher rated cells?
            The current cells have a flat ceramic component wired in series with the cell stick chain between the 2nd - 3rd and 6th-7th paired sticks. A continuity check seems to indicate these are diodes. I googled the numbers on the component but no hits. Do I need a higher rated component or will the originals work with the new higher rated cells?

            Thanks,
            Steve
            Last edited by MarshSt; 09-13-2017, 08:48 AM.

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            • #51
              I can't find the url for the swap right now, but there was no mention of needing to alter the charger or diodes. Isn't the original 4000?. It seems to me mods jumped to 8500. I wish I knew where I put those docs. Maddog probably has it. At any rate the charging time would just be increased.
              I looked at your Maxxpacks.com site, nice find BTW. I think you do need to do some size - volume calculations before buying though if he wants to look original. The original are two sets of twenty in parallel arranged in tube fashion. Maxxpacks uses a different setup, so the cells might not fit to the best advantage.
              I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by MarshSt View Post
                ... I have found 6v 5000mah NiMH sub-c stick packs at Maxxpacks.com...
                How did you choose the the 5000 mah packs? price? discharge rate? amperage?

                I would be tempted for the 10000 mah packs, but I don't know about the discharge rate of 10 amps except that the I-Glides fuse is rated at 10 amps, so it may be enough of a discharge rate. Frankly I don't understand how the same chemistry can have varying discharge rates. I think it's called the C rate.
                I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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                • #53
                  I had no problems with the original charger. The last battery I rebuilt using 60 cells by adding a third leg in parallel. I had to expend the case but everything worked fine including the charger. You will have longer charge times with a higher capacity battery.

                  I wish iglide/tailwind would produce a higher capacity battery for purchase for those of us that don't get by with the standard battery.

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                  • #54
                    Thanks for the feedback. I started down the 5000 mah cell route with maxxpacks because I had read good reviews on other forums and they had a 5 cell straight pack listed on their site. I talked with them a couple times about the charging concerns and also cell size. For some reason the 5000 mah sub-c cells make a longer/larger diameter pack (I didn't investigate why in detail) so we settled on 3800 mah sticks so I could use the existing case without modification. The 5000 mah cells would have almost doubled the original capacity of the 2800 mah/cells though which would have been nice. This will still be an improvement in capacity and the chair ECU should still discharge the cells at the same rate just have a longer run time. The charger uses the thermisters embedded in the pack to monitor cell temp during charging so it is able to charge the higher capacity cells with no problem although it will take longer to charge. Sounds like a simple enough swap so far. I ordered the batteries Thursday and I have a notification that they will be delivered on Saturday. These guys have been great to work with and I hope to have the cells swapped in soon. I will provide some pictures and an update after I get the pack together and charged.
                    Steve
                    Last edited by MarshSt; 09-16-2017, 10:42 AM.

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                    • #55
                      Today found the paper copy of the 5000 nimh upgrade that came with the used iglide I bought. Mine came with the 5000, maybe I know I've seen this online somewhere also, but cannot find it now. In order to get it back online, I've scanned it and am going to try to repost it here. I don't know who authored it.
                      shute, too large, I'll reduce it and hope it is still legible. double shute, www.shrinkpictures.com/ won't shrink it.
                      I'll email the file to anyone who wants it.
                      I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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                      • #56
                        Success, first I reduced the file in Irfanview and then in shrinkpictures. As I said I do not know who the author is.
                        Attached Files
                        I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by nonoise View Post
                          As I said I do not know who the author is.
                          That was a post of mine from this topic http:///forum/showthread.php?158834-...ind-wheelchair
                          I don't know why the pictures no longer show up.

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                          • #58
                            IGlide Tailwind battery replacement folow-up

                            Ok here?s the update. As I noted in previous posts this battery swap was kept as close to original as possible with the exception of increasing battery capacity. I originally started down the path of opening the battery back along the original seam but quickly gave up on that due to the risk of breaking the case. I fortunately have machine tools that allowed me to use a slitting saw to slice the top (non-bracket side) of the box off just below the corner radius. This was careful slow work because of the risk of damaging the circuit board that others had warned about. There are also a few molded features that make the depth of cut different in a couple of areas. The top came off nicely and was reused to close the box after the new cells were installed.
                            I sourced the 8 replacement 6V 3800 mah NiMHcell sticks from maxxpacks and they came complete with solder tabs and were shrink wrapped. They had all the cell labels lined up which displayed some nice craftsmanship that you don?t too often these days. The new sticks were longer than the originals as I had been warned and this turned out to be the max length that would fit back into the case with the wires attached. The cells sticks had @ 1-1/4? solder tabs on all the exposed ends and I initially had some trouble getting them formed and soldered correctly. I finally used a red scotchbrite disc in the dremmel tool to scuff them up and got a new roll of rosin core solder and all was good. I think the flux in my 35 year old roll of Kester finally gave up. I rewired the pack with the original thermisters and diodes and hot glued and taped it back together in the original shape.
                            It was tough to get all of the wires and insulators back into the box with the additional cell length but it just fit. I had to add one additional layer of insulating paper between the wires and battery pack. I cut a .060? thick aluminum plate and drilled matching holes just inside each corner of the box and used long stainless screws with washers and nylock nuts to secure the box closed using the original lid sandwiched under the aluminum plate. I also slipped heat shrink tube over the exposed screws inside the box to protect from any electrical shorts. I then used silicone to seal the gap created when sawing the box open.
                            The batteries showed 6 volts when checked with a mulitmeter but required a full charge before they would display on the power meter and the original Panasonic charger worked with no problems.
                            I tested the chair and was impressed with how much easier it is to climb inclines with the power assist. This is a very constructive application for this technology and hopefully this type of chair will continue to be available. My friend said the chair works great with the new batteries but I haven?t received a report back on how much longer the chair is able to operate with the additional capacity.
                            Thanks for your assistance with this project.
                            Steve
                            Attached Files

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                            • #59
                              Nice work MarshSt. Of course I've got comments and questions, but first I want to tell you your work looks professional. I wanted to post my lithium conversion, but not now lol. Mine's too sloppy.

                              That is the first item. You were probably very wise to cut the top off the case. Our cases are older and they may have used a different glue. What the old ones have is something like a tacky silicone. Yours may have been set solid.
                              Using bolts to hold it together is how I started out, but haven't made it to the hardware store. I have the holes drilled and am relying on zip ties until on breaks, which it will. Yours looks secure.

                              You probably don't still have it, but I want to know the charge on a fully charged *new* NIMH battery pack. So if you can will you please use a voltmeter on posts 1 and 3 for me? Here is the reason. That battery pack could charge up to 32 volts, but the charger says 28.8 volts. We know the I-Glide operates just fine at 29.2 because both Maddog and I have been using Lithium packs which charge to 29.2 Volts. And in fact I have charged older I-Glide NIMH packs a point or so over the limit, but the charge quickly degrades. So what does your brand new pack charge up to if you have access to it all?

                              I saw maxxpacks sells the cell stacks with wires attached as an option instead of tabs or bare. I'm thinking wires might be a good idea depending how they do it.

                              "The batteries showed 6 volts when checked with a mulitmeter but required a full charge before they would display on the power meter and the original Panasonic charger worked with no problems."

                              That is an anomaly of the circuit board. I bet if you had checked pins 1 and 3, those too would have registered zero. It drove me nuts.

                              I hope your friend enjoys the usefulness of the chair as much as I do. I've got 8X2 pneumatic casters on mine. Those combined with it's long wheelbase, it is amazing where it will take me.
                              I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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                              • #60
                                Good job. Glad you stepped in and were able to help your friend. I spend a good bit of time putting together work arounds because the usual sources or products fall short.
                                You will find a guide to preserving shoulder function @
                                http://www.rstce.pitt.edu/RSTCE_Reso...imb_Injury.pdf

                                See my personal webpage @
                                http://cccforum55.freehostia.com/

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