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  • #31
    Originally posted by nonoise View Post
    The thing that puzzles me is why did Independence/JJ add all those bogus connections?
    I think maybe it uses some of the other plugs of info but does not need them. The on/off button light is supposed to blink when the battery is low, I think one of the pugs probably supplies that info. That would not work with lithium.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by maddog View Post
      I think maybe it uses some of the other plugs of info but does not need them. The on/off button light is supposed to blink when the battery is low, I think one of the pugs probably supplies that info. That would not work with lithium.
      Can you see the green on off light? I have to lean way over and look for it. A blinking light wouldn't help unless someone told me. But I think I have seen the green blink, I just don't remember if it was the lithium battery running on two wires and no pcb or one of the NiMH ones using three and the pcb.
      I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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      • #33
        Bob wrote:
        >THe BMS is a battery management system. It equalizes each cell cluster to maintain equalization of the voltage. AND it also is "supposed" to prevent battery damage by over-discharge either instantly or below the overall low >discharge. It is supposed to do exactly what the name implies.

        That is my understanding too.

        >There have been occurrences of unintended tripping which is supposed to prevent further use and damage to the battery system and trip failure at some inconvenient times and places. However, by all accounts progress is >being made on such things. Is this true????? Who knows?

        Well my trikes 48 volt LiFePO4 system failed when I first got it. It would run, then cut out and come back on, only to fail permanently again, so I took it back. They traced it to a loose power connection that they had made. Once fixed, they said they also had to reset the BMS because it had tripped due to the arcing, spikes or surges. That was the first time I had heard the term BMS and did not know enough to quiz them further.

        >Battery chargers are made that can tell you exactly how many Amp hours you replace when you charge them and assure the equalization of the cell clusters. Some guys swear by them and a few at them. There are more >than a few who swear at the BMS' as well! Evidently it can be difficult to reset.
        >I believe that more than 99% of us crips, want a plug and go charging system physically quiet and reasonably small sized. In other words convenient. Most of us are not Nuclear scientists, or electrical engineers, especially >not me.

        Look at this charger, it seems to do 24 volts and has the same description as the larger one which includes amps. It's too bad wheelchair stuff is locked into 24 volts because the ebike community has pretty much moved on to higher voltages.
        http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-b...satiator.html#
        I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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        • #34
          I charge my chair at night in my bedroom with a 7 amp charger that has a fairly loud fan. I always listen to when the charger fan cuts off to give me a rough estimate of how much power I have used in the day. It usually charges in an hour so I know I have used about half of my 15 a/h battery, some days more some days less but I always have an idea of how much the battery has been discharged.
          I bought a Watts Up meter https://www.amazon.com/Watts-RC-Anal.../dp/B001B6N2WK that I was going to install between the battery and the motors to let me know how many amps I had used at any given time in the day to determine state of charge. I never installed it because from charge time I found that I did not have to worry about conserving battery.

          If I were to redo my setup I would probably go with a smaller battery maybe 10-12 a/h instead of 15 a/h and look into a bluetooth system like this and I would also let them build the battery. http://www.batteryspace.com/PCM-with...oth/SMBus.aspx

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          • #35
            No Noise, The controllers on our power chairs are designed for 30 volt dc.max. You can buy a controller from the hobby folks that will work for higher voltages, there are people who do that.

            Most controllers on the market are designed for single axis use (a single drive motor) we require a two axis controller. That is unless you want to have a tank steer, that can create some different problems as well.

            BUT>> get that BUT you had best know what you are doing,read the directions until you memorize what it says. For me that will never happen, I have CRS.

            More volts equals more speed at the same sized range motor. that is quite simple with DC voltage. in themselves motors are dumb---they do what the controller tells them to do.

            IF you go to wheelchairdriver.com in the forum there is a whole list of things some of those guys have tried and questioned the resulting creations. Those who are electrically proficient can have a ball with some of that stuff. At my age and aptitude, that's no longer an option. I also cannot afford any mistakes, and they are too easily made! I think I'll stick to the 24 volt systems.

            There are a lot of discussions about chargers, calibrating Amperage use, etc.etc.

            I get and understand why a BMS would become faulty because of bad circuitry. Undersized wiring and sloppy as manufactured connections on/in the circuits may also create undesired heating problems with BMS as well as the circuitry in some of our own as yet unmodified chairs, I have myself, experienced that.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by maddog View Post
              I charge my chair at night in my bedroom with a 7 amp charger that has a fairly loud fan. I always listen to when the charger fan cuts off to give me a rough estimate of how much power I have used in the day. It usually charges in an hour so I know I have used about half of my 15 a/h battery, some days more some days less but I always have an idea of how much the battery has been discharged.
              I bought a Watts Up meter https://www.amazon.com/Watts-RC-Anal.../dp/B001B6N2WK that I was going to install between the battery and the motors to let me know how many amps I had used at any given time in the day to determine state of charge. I never installed it because from charge time I found that I did not have to worry about conserving battery.

              If I were to redo my setup I would probably go with a smaller battery maybe 10-12 a/h instead of 15 a/h and look into a bluetooth system like this and I would also let them build the battery. http://www.batteryspace.com/PCM-with...oth/SMBus.aspx
              I've got that Watts Up meter on my recumbent trike, but I only use it as a volt meter to keep track of the state of charge. For this project I bought some of these little voltmeters http://www.ebay.com/itm/271966065468 They only measure between 2.5 and 30 dc, but for a couple of bucks that's okay. Testing them, they showed 27.2 while both of my old expensive radio shack testers showed 27.4.
              Your bluetooth find is fantastic.
              I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

              Comment


              • #37
                >No Noise, The controllers on our power chairs are designed for 30 volt dc.max.

                That?s because power chairs are designed around two lead acid batteries powering two brushed motors. That?s not the case with the I-Glide and the add-ons, except the ZX1.

                >You can buy a controller from the hobby folks that will work for higher voltages, there a

                I originally designed my trike with a 36 volt system, which was not enough, so I upgraded it. They took back the controller, battery, and charger and for a small fee at the time I stepped up to 48 volts resulting in more speed and I claim more power, but they say no. It does climb hills now when it would not before.

                Then I saw a broken 36 volt Bionix kit for $50 so I grabbed it to play with eventually fixing it. Once I saw how it worked, I did not like it, but the battery was fine. So I used the battery and a new 36 volt controller to power my smart drive clone. It worked great, fast. 50% faster than 24 volts, simple math, you know how that works. I only used it once. On my return trip I found it also accelerates 50% faster and ended up on my backside, scared me good. I looked at ways to find a slower throttle. Phil?s VW one might work, and I bought a similar one but never finished that project for some reason. I?ve now got the smart drive clone hooked up to a 24 volt NMC battery, and controller. It is still too quick off the line so I?m adding wheelie bars.

                >Most controllers on the market are designed for single axis use (a single drive motor) we >require a two axis controller. That is unless you want to have a tank steer, that can create

                Skid steer is what I do with the three wheeler and the smartdrive clone. I have one hand on the throttle and the other on the opposing rim. Currently I need to make an adjustment to offset the position of the drive because it?s pushing the wrong direction.

                >BUT>> get that BUT you had best know what you are doing,read the directions until >you memorize what it says. For me that will never happen, I have CRS.

                I let my vendor chose the correct controller and program it. He did sell me the interface to change the setup, but reading through the instructions, I have not touched any settings.
                I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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                • #38
                  Maddog'

                  I really like this as an indicator for you power used. Especially for the LiFePO4 battery system, especially if you are a tad goosey about the BMS. It would help you if you really go long distances in your chair, which apparently you do not. but there are folks who do. The lithium batteries when you do use them to their extreme will fade out quickly and you will harm them. Being aware of your power usage can relax some of your anxiety about this.

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                  • #39
                    Have any luck with these batteries?

                    My issue is, I've got a Tailwind chair for my 12 y/o daughter, and the battery is starting to die. It will hardly take a charge, shuts off on her every once in a while, yada yada yada...it's dying for sure.

                    Sooooo...I called Clinton River Medical, and a new battery is $950. They said they "might" be able to jump her existing one so it would start working better and last bit longer...and that would be 75 bucks. Bargain...IF it works. And for how long. *shrugs shoulders*

                    Other than that...I looked at links that refer to cracking the case open and buying new 'sub C' batteries and it would be better than ever...don't know how accurate that info is though:

                    http://drkfs.net/IGLIDE.htm

                    But...the process petrifies me. I seriously don't think that I would be able to do that. I actually really wish there was somebody out there that would do this for me and my little one for whatever price...as long as it works, and saves me from dishing out 1k for a new one...

                    Any other options or advice? Should I maybe start a new thread for this? Just figured I would post it here because you all seem to be extremely knowledgeable in this area on these particular iGlide/Tailwind batteries...

                    Any advice would be greatly appreciated...most of what you guys are posting looks like hieroglyphics to me, so I apologize in advance...but I would LOVE to figure out a better option for my little one.

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                    • #40
                      Hi Joey, Yes as a matter of fact I'm using an old $50 Bionix battery and a transformer to cut it down to 24 volts. It's a temporary solution, that seems to be working out fine since the battery hasn't failed yet. But I don't far.
                      In order for me or anyone to think about your best lowest cost reliable options PM or post where you live. I bet we can help.
                      I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        50 bucks huh?? lol!!!

                        I'll just post it here because I'd like anyone else that's interested in the subject to see what their options are. Not sure what your using though would be a viable for her though, only because you said you don't go too far. She uses her chair all throughout the day, and school is coming up shortly..sooooo....that's a good 6 or 7 hour clip of her using it on and off all day being nowhere near a charger.

                        As far as my location...we're in Suffolk County on Long Island, NY. Any help is sure appreciated!
                        Last edited by Fast Joey; 08-07-2017, 04:37 PM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Fast Joey View Post
                          50 bucks huh?? lol!!!

                          I'll just post it here because I'd like anyone else that's interested in the subject to see what their options are. Not sure what your using though would be a viable for her though, only because you said you don't go too far. She uses her chair all throughout the day, and school is coming up shortly..sooooo....that's a good 6 or 7 hour clip of her using it on and off all day being nowhere near a charger.

                          As far as my location...we're in Suffolk County on Long Island, NY. Any help is sure appreciated!
                          Wow, I didn't see any Craigslist opportunities on Long Island, so then I checked back to Seattle and it was next to nothing also. A few years ago there were lots, that's how I got the broken Bionix kit. I'm thinking the e-bike craze is waning.
                          There is a brand new 48 volt in with charger in Canada, but how to get it shipped across the border is problematic. He needed 36 volts, but we can use a step down transformer so other than 24 volt batteries will work. I did pay about 60 for the transformer. This is the battery I am considering buying if I need to. Unless they have changed their catalog listing, I already have one on my SD clone and it has gone miles and miles at the beach in So Cal. The big one on the left: http://www.electric-bike-kit.com/lit...erymodule.aspx

                          Another one which I know is a rock is the old SmartDrive battery. Those things are tankers. Obtaining one is the only issue. I have a second SD that I snagged cheap and modified. That battery now has a controller and extra wires on it, but I am debating abandoning that project and claiming the battery for the Iglide.

                          Here is a pic of all that is needed of the original IGlide shell battery. Actually only the plug is needed: opps, I need to post another reply using "Go Advanced"
                          I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by nonoise View Post
                            ...Here is a pic of all that is needed of the original IGlide shell battery. Actually only the plug is needed: opps, I need to post another reply using "Go Advanced"

                            So what you do is simply bust open the case. I saw a corner and jam one or two big screwdrivers in and twist sideways. It squeaks and moans, but it does come apart. You do have to remove or cut the stickers first. Thinking I would mount a battery flat against the bottom you see, I countersunk those tiny bolts. It may or not be necessary depending on battery chosen.

                            Speaking of which, rebuilding back to original would involve finding good battery cells and to tell you the truth the NiMH type they use self destruct if left unattended too long. Shocking NiMH back to life does not extend enough of their usefulness for the day. A factory new NiMH battery can be as good as dead in just a few months.

                            So upgrading to Lithium is the way to go. And abandoning the circuit board and cutting out all those extra wires is a no brainer once we learned it could be done. All you have to do is connect the red wire from the battery to the *big* red wire on the plug, and black battery wire to the big black wire on the plug. The new battery *must* never be charged with the Iglide battery. The charging cycle is different and it charges too high.
                            Attached Files
                            I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Joey, I have rebuilt several batteries and have since converted to lithium. If you aren't good at this or understand your best bet would be to stay with sub-c nimh. It is also the cleanest and may be better than a homemade lithium battery box hanging off the back of a chair of a girl that is going to school. I rebuilt two with high capacity cheap Chinese nimh and neither pack lasted very long before cells started to fail. The last pack I used Saft batteries made in France and they lasted much longer and I still use this pack from time to time, they are about five years old now.

                              If I where you I would buy 40 of these https://www.batterystore.com/batteri...c-arts-energy/ not necessarily from that store and find a local shop to switch the cells out. I don't have a battery welder so I took mine to a local Batteries Plus shop and had them do the work. Any shop that rebuilds batteries should be able to get you fixed up. These shops can also get you the cells if you don't feel comfortable, just make sure they get quality brand cells, there is no way to tell what they put in there once the battery case is glued back together. There may also be less down time if you walk in with the batteries already in hand, it only took them about an hour to replace my batteries. I had already bought the cells and had the case cracked open, they only had to weld the batteries in place. If you go to open the case do what nonoise said but don't push a screwdriver in anywhere near where the battery level lights are. There is a circuit board there that can be damaged, anywhere else is ok. Search some of my old post explaining how to open and rebuild the battery, just don't go with high capacity cheap cells like I initially did.

                              Call some local shops and tell them you have a 24v 5.6ah nimh battery pack that has 40 sub-c cells (two sets of 20 cells in series combined in parallel) and see what they recommend, stress reliability, they may recommend something better than Saft. The original cells were I think Panasonic but last I checked they quit making them. The individual cells need to be 2.8ah or above and it may help to order them with the tabs for easy welding. Ask the shop beforehand if they prefer the tabs or not.

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                              • #45
                                Researching away here. and all this info is awesome...but...actually doing it is something I don't think I'm going to be able to tackle. I got my insurance on the phone, and they DO cover the batteries...actually TWO when needed at an 80/20 ratio once I've met my deductible. The new ones are $950 (ouch!), but that boils down to $190 after insurance. Which...if I actually bought the 40 batteries myself would be real close to that....even more if they are 5 bucks a pop.

                                I think once I have her new ones, if I can find those batteries cheaper, I'd feel much more confident in cracking her old case opening and having a go at this. At that point, if I screw it up...it won't matter, I can toss the whole project lol...

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