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I-Glide battery charge, or Next, even Tailwind

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  • #16
    Originally posted by wes4dbt View Post
    thanks for the info

    btw - do you turn off the power when inside the house?
    I turn it on anytime I move.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by maddog View Post
      I don't run both batteries, only the lipo. You don't need the circuit board or the thermistor, the only thing you need from the battery box is the red and black wires. Connect those to your new battery and you are ready to go. If I remember correctly there are two red wires on the battery box just combine them and connect them to your positive on your new battery. I took a hacksaw and cut the connector out of the battery box so I could interface with the chair and hard mounted the new battery to my chair. The red and black wires are all you need, I think the thermistor is only used with the iglide charger not the chair.
      Congratulations, you broke the code. There are I-Glides sitting all over the place that can't be used because Clinton stopped selling old style batteries and changed the plug interface so new ones can't be used either. I was too chicken to try what you did because of the "data, clock, and thermister" connections. If I had a backup controller, which I was looking for, I would have tried it. I thought the clock connection had to do with the push timeout, but I guess not, that is good. And I am surprised about the thermister too because whenever I disconnected the other thermister, the "gas gauge" went to one flashing red light and I'd have to start the recharge cycle over. But reconditioning old dead batteries was never my intent. I wanted to upgrade to new lithium. I happened to find at an e-bike manufacturer some they could not use, so on a whim and chance I bought the whole box cheap.

      In one of these battery boxes one red wire goes to the battery first and the other goes to the circuit board, so probably only one is needed, it's a matter of knowing which one.
      I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by maddog View Post
        I bought the 15ah diy kit, it comes with a BMS so everything is charged correctly. I have used it for 3 years now and it works great. 15ah turned out to be overkill but it allowed me to put a 12v outlet on my chair to charge my phone and run a heated jacket in the winter. The only downside is I no longer have a battery gauge but with 15ah I don't ever run out so that is not an issue.
        Never running out of power is sweet. I have a couple of other 24V batteries I could use that are much better than these NMCs if I have to.
        I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by maddog View Post
          Iglide is now Tailwind and sold by Clinton River Medical. It is fine for in the house it just takes some getting use to, inside and outside it is all I use.
          There you go. I'm just clumsy. Actually even though I now cannot voluntarily move my legs anymore I still prefer to keep the range of motion available, so I don't want them on a fixed footrest inside the house. Yeah it can make going across the room difficult.
          I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by nonoise View Post
            Congratulations, you broke the code. There are I-Glides sitting all over the place that can't be used because Clinton stopped selling old style batteries and changed the plug interface so new ones can't be used either. I was too chicken to try what you did because of the "data, clock, and thermister" connections. If I had a backup controller, which I was looking for, I would have tried it. I thought the clock connection had to do with the push timeout, but I guess not, that is good. And I am surprised about the thermister too because whenever I disconnected the other thermister, the "gas gauge" went to one flashing red light and I'd have to start the recharge cycle over. But reconditioning old dead batteries was never my intent. I wanted to upgrade to new lithium. I happened to find at an e-bike manufacturer some they could not use, so on a whim and chance I bought the whole box cheap.

            In one of these battery boxes one red wire goes to the battery first and the other goes to the circuit board, so probably only one is needed, it's a matter of knowing which one.
            It has been a long time since I looked at this but I think most of the wire connectors on the chair are blank, the positive and negative and I think that is all. The charger connector uses most if not all. The plug pins are labeled on the battery so it is easy to see what the chair needs and what the charger needs.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by maddog View Post
              It has been a long time since I looked at this but I think most of the wire connectors on the chair are blank, the positive and negative and I think that is all. The charger connector uses most if not all. The plug pins are labeled on the battery so it is easy to see what the chair needs and what the charger needs.
              Amazing, I never thought to look at the chair. My chair is only missing the thermister connection and it is *also* missing on the charger plug. Instead there is another connected to the ground wire, you've seen it. My charger only has the ground and two positives.

              I hope your chair configuration is not different than mine. I'll know soon enough, as soon as I get one of these lithiums up. I thought I had it once but that board blocked it or the pack was no good which seems doubtful.
              I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

              Comment


              • #22
                Success, thank you maddog. I don't know why it works, I don't care. This is the third device I've removed the printed circuit board from and had a great outcome. The first was a second smartdrive I picked up cheap, the second was a bathchair that the batteries had corroded the board and now this. I used the same battery box that came with the chair since those were the worst batteries. This time without the battery box printed circuit board the chair performs like they advertise. A soft push translates as a tiny roll, but a good push and the chair moves out. It definitely works better.

                My battery packs that I bought might not be satisfactory though. I made a trip around the block and a side trip up a hill and the voltage dropped 0.8 volts overall. That pack is a test pack though. I need to start over with one of the good ones. What I like is that it fits inside the black box so I could swap a fresh one in anytime.
                I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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                • #23
                  Glad you got it working.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    nonoise, maddog & Bob Sullivan,

                    I see your hard work has paid off! I love this website. Everyone works together to help one another out!!

                    By the way, I know some IGlide users who would pay you guys to convert their old batteries......just saying. Lol.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by yojama95 View Post
                      nonoise, maddog & Bob Sullivan,

                      I see your hard work has paid off! I love this website. Everyone works together to help one another out!!

                      By the way, I know some IGlide users who would pay you guys to convert their old batteries......just saying. Lol.
                      Maddog cracked the code. Since I had so many of these batteries apart, I discovered a refinement to what he found. I didn't have the guts to what he did without a backup controller. Maddog has been using his I-Glide for three years so clearly those connections are not needed. All one needs is the +/- 24 volt to the chair and nothing else. The thing that puzzles me is why did Independence/JJ add all those bogus connections? Is it so they could be the sole supplier of batteries?

                      At any rate any good bicycle 24 V battery should work. It absolutely would need its own charger, bms and of course built in low voltage cutoff.

                      As for how to do it, it's a no brainer. The big red wire and the black one. They are connected to pinouts 3 and 1. Tossing the printed circuit board is no loss. That "gas gauge" is poor. I had it report a full battery but it wouldn't get me around the block. That is because the gauge only compares the charge of what the battery accepted against what it can accept instead of should accept. Essentially I charged a dead battery, the charger said it was done and the battery pack reported it was a full charge, but the battery was too weak to go any distance. A two dollar volt meter is better. Later I was able to shock that battery pack into a little more life, but it was not as good as the original cell from I-Glide.
                      I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Not understanding this: At any rate any good bicycle 24 V battery should work. It absolutely would need its own charger, bms and of course built in low voltage cutoff.

                        BMS=battery management system(?) Isn't that what you deleted? Or do you mean a charger that is managed? Or what?
                        69yo male T12 complete since 1995
                        NW NJ

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by pfcs49 View Post
                          Not understanding this: At any rate any good bicycle 24 V battery should work. It absolutely would need its own charger, bms and of course built in low voltage cutoff.

                          BMS=battery management system(?) Isn't that what you deleted? Or do you mean a charger that is managed? Or what?
                          Sorry, communication is one of the many skills I cannot claim to have mastered. I will try to expand on what I meant to say.

                          I-Glides use old style NiMH batteries. NiMH are better than NiCads, but still have significant issues. One is self destruction if not properly maintained. On the bright side they do not require balancing as they self balance between cells like lead acids do. So there is no Battery Management System (BMS). Inside the battery pack there is a Printed Circuit Board, (PCB) which does a couple of things, gas gauge, and thermister while charging, and the rest appears to be impressive show biz with no function.

                          Since Maddog found out the I-Glide itself only needs the 24 volt + and - connections, we are not restricted to the PCP, *or* the dedicated I-Glide charger. In fact that is part of what I tried to say. Upgrading battery type, will require matching the correct charger to the new battery cell chemistry. It needs to come with a BMS.
                          I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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                          • #28
                            It needs to come with a BMS

                            What is "it", new battery or charger?
                            69yo male T12 complete since 1995
                            NW NJ

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                            • #29
                              THe BMS is a battery management system. It equalizes each cell cluster to maintain equalization of the voltage. AND it also is "supposed" to prevent battery damage by over-discharge either instantly or below the overall low discharge. It is supposed to do exactly what the name implies.

                              There have been occurrences of unintended tripping which is supposed to prevent further use and damage to the battery system and trip failure at some inconvenient times and places. However, by all accounts progress is being made on such things. Is this true????? Who knows?

                              Battery chargers are made that can tell you exactly how many Amp hours you replace when you charge them and assure the equalization of the cell clusters. Some guys swear by them and a few at them. There are more than a few who swear at the BMS' as well! Evidently it can be difficult to reset.

                              I believe that more than 99% of us crips, want a plug and go charging system physically quiet and reasonably small sized. In other words convenient. Most of us are not Nuclear scientists, or electrical engineers, especially not me.

                              Since almost any current LiFePO4 battery system of 24 Volt 40 AH or so rated promise will cost any of us about $1000 including shipping I am and have been very hesitant to jump into this caldron. Needless to say I am very much a financial conservative person. (said to be very stingy with my money) I would have more faith if I knew that everyone I dealt with was an American businessman, and I had our ICC laws to back me up, and also of American manufacture! They're not! All this stuff is Chinese. But that is just me and my prejudices!

                              I do have considerably more faith in LiFePO4 battery systems, than LIPO systems, they burn and explode, and under your ass that can be uncomfortable at the very least.

                              The AH ratings for lead/acid batteries is convoluted system at best. BUT LiFePO4 systems can get the actual real AH (Amp hour) they advertise the way we use electrical storage batteries in our chairs, and in fact all our handicapped-- DME ! The very fact some folks are using different kinds of LiFePO4 manufactures, is very encouraging, as well as differing charging systems. There should be more feedback on them coming.

                              I use BatteryUniversity.com and wheelchairdriver.Com as a couple of my Battery reference sites. Wind Power, Wind Power and electric Powered cars should push new development in Battery use as well as a new surge towards silent, less expensive diesel electric powered submarines. The can install many times the stored electric power now, than the WW2 submarines, with extreme silent operations. Of course the same applies to torpedo drives. For these reasons we should see more efficient power storage batteries developed.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by pfcs49 View Post
                                It needs to come with a BMS

                                What is "it", new battery or charger?
                                Ya caught me. I thought I got all the ambiguous "it's" out of my response. I was thinking an upgraded lithium (many types of lithium) or NCM battery needs to have a BMS of it's own. But as Bob notes the balancing can be done with a specialized charger if one has the cash, time and knowledge.

                                As for the low voltage cutoff, I think there is a switch in the controller in the chair. The reason is because when I study the wiring in the oldest battery boxes I see the main +/- wires directly going to the plug interface bypassing the PCB to pins 1 and 3. Thinner gauge wires supply the PCB.
                                I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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