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Joystick doesn't seem logical. I am a new user.

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  • #31
    Placing a lip on each edge of your ramp will pretty much prevent you from crashing. with some decent programming for responsiveness and reasonable speeds you'll be good to go.
    Last edited by Bob Sullivan; 07-08-2016, 09:45 AM.

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    • #32
      I am retired fine-artist and never was very financially successful. Now I am unable to get down to work near the floor and unable to walk more than a very short distance. I am currently saving for the materials for a ramp, but it will be a while. Gear 1 & 2 are very slow to react and 3 is too fast for my tight quarters. I have been just partially pressing 3 because of the faster response, but living in tight quarters makes that difficult, because sometimes the chair moves a bit too fast at first. I still bump things fairly often but am fortunate to not hurt myself of damage the doors and furniture too much. If I could just get the reaction time eliminated so that the chair would turn in the direction I wanted without delay, I could concentrate on the ramp as first priority. I have the technical and mechanical skills needed to do most things, but am physically limited with reduced physical strength, so actually physically handling the building of the ramp is not something I can consider. I have come to understand most of what I need to know now, but will probably post less, because you have all been so kind as to bring me up to speed. Now I just have to wait to put the finances together. I live near Miami Valley Hospital in the Downtown area of Dayton, Ohio, so if anyone with a programmer lives in my area and is willing to share or help, Private Message me. Rentals on Ebay are quite expensive too, so I am a little apprehensive. You have been so kind Bob, I wish we were neighbors. Shab

      Originally posted by Bob Sullivan View Post
      Placing a lip on each edge of your ramp will pretty much prevent you from crashing. with some decent programming for responsiveness and reasonable speeds you'll be good to go.

      Comment


      • #33
        Your complaint is the number one problem in most general chair complaints, you can use the amount of hand pressure on your joystick to control your speed, but with your delayed response it is nearly useless to attempt using the joystick this way.

        try embracing your control box with your hand and with the web between your fore finger and thumb gently move the joystick going forward. If you had good, quick responsiveness this is a super way (for me at least) to use your joystick. It is intuitive. Using your fingers on the joy stick makes you prone to jerky chair movements. This is exacerbated by poor controller adjustment.

        You did not say what chair, or model you had. Almost every different model/type of controller has a different programmer. So this info is super important to everybody who might be able to help you. Publish a couple of pictures if nothing else perhaps someone will identify what you have.

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        • #34
          My chair is a quantum 6000z. I do not know the date of manufacturer. I don't believe I have seen the controller, only the joystick. If the controller is located under the cover in back of the chair, it is too difficult for me to get back up from the floor. I don't have anyone to help me, and it is exhausting, to the point of passing out.

          Is the reason that so much delay is programmed into the controller so that the manufacturer or his representative can visit and reprogram your controller. I am so untrustworthy any more. It looks to me like just another way to get an unearned $130.

          If that is the case, it looks like a good time for a class action law suit - not to punish, but to change some of the inequities forced upon users. And yes, the money should be punishing too and paid to those who were forced to buy service that was unneeded. It would eliminate the problem once and for all.

          As far as using the joystick, I do use just the finger and thumb, if I understand you correctly.

          Thanks again, my friend Shab

          Originally posted by Bob Sullivan View Post
          Your complaint is the number one problem in most general chair complaints, you can use the amount of hand pressure on your joystick to control your speed, but with your delayed response it is nearly useless to attempt using the joystick this way.

          try embracing your control box with your hand and with the web between your fore finger and thumb gently move the joystick going forward. If you had good, quick responsiveness this is a super way (for me at least) to use your joystick. It is intuitive. Using your fingers on the joy stick makes you prone to jerky chair movements. This is exacerbated by poor controller adjustment.

          You did not say what chair, or model you had. Almost every different model/type of controller has a different programmer. So this info is super important to everybody who might be able to help you. Publish a couple of pictures if nothing else perhaps someone will identify what you have.

          Comment


          • #35
            Quote; "If that is the case, it looks like a good time for a class action law suit - not to punish, but to change some of the inequities forced upon users. And yes, the money should be punishing too and paid to those who were forced to buy service that was unneeded. It would eliminate the problem once and for all.

            As far as using the joystick, I do use just the finger and thumb, if I understand you correctly.

            Your response and your suggested actions; are exactly why the delays are placed into the controllers by command of the regulative authorities. These things are set up for folks who may have many quick hand response control problems, not simply You or me. For instance stroke victims. There are many "expert's" who gain their expertise from the settings most such afflicted folks seem to like. These opinions/statistics, can easily be corrupted, when end users have been convinced, by some techie know it all, this is the best we can give you. Such STAT's are garbage in garbage out.

            Vendors are just that; not a provider of some corporation's exclusive service or product. But individual vendors, and peddlers of almost any form of mobility equipment who placed a decal on his front window. Internet sales are strictly buyer beware, so beware. "We" are prey to the vulture's So my solution has been to buy power chairs from individual private sales, and buy cheaply, just in case the seller or "I" myself do not see everything described or shown in a picture, of some object "I" purchase.

            When you buy a used Power hair "expect" it to have all but used up batteries with a very short if any life span figure the price of new batteries, into the final cost to you. Don't have used batteries shipped to you, shipping will cost more than they are worth. Don't be gullible!
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Quote; "
            As far as using the joystick, I do use just the finger and thumb, if I understand you correctly.

            No one can control a power chair when their arm is suspended above the controller. You must rest your hand firmly against the joystick-control empty spaces on the control and guide it gently. I hold the control firmly and use the "WEB" between my thumb and fore finger to press the joy-stick in the direction i wish it to go.

            Comment


            • #36
              Thanks Bob, I am sorry to appear so untrusting. I understand the control delay for those with limitations like you mentioned. I guess I just thought most users would not fall in that category; now that I think about it, they are probably in the majority.

              I live on such a small retirement, it is very hard for me to buy the things I need any more. As a result, I am always looking for the reason prices are so high and a way to buy things cheaper. Also, I am filled with anxiety trying to get out of my place. I have the chair working pretty good, but can't get out of my place. I have to ramp up 22 inches. I am hopeful I can do this with a 12 foot ramp. Harbor Freight has a 6 foot ramp 30 inches wide on sale at $130 so 2 will cost about $275 after tax. I hope that will be sufficient. It will be a couple of months after that that I can afford the programming for the controller at $130 additional. I will have to try the 12 foot ramp without reprogramming the controller. I hope I am successful. I am unsure what programmer to rent on Ebay, so I probably will have to have the serviceman come to my place. My best to you and yours.
              Shab

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Shabakthanai View Post
                My chair is a quantum 6000z. I do not know the date of manufacturer. I don't believe I have seen the controller, only the joystick. ...
                I found this, which I'm not sure is exactly what you have or not https://www.southwestmedical.com/rep...000xl-domestic

                There seems to be a few different looking joystick controllers in the diagram, but they show the parts as well as how they are connected. You can also see 'Programmers' under the 'Joystick (master controls)'.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Thanks Chick, I found and purchased a programmer for the Quantum chair. It turned out to be another mistake on my part. The most needed adjustment I need is not available using the Quantum programmer. I can't remove the pause. All these failures have started to make me ill. I am having to take a break for a while, to see if I will feel better.

                  I have come to hate the Quantum Pride organization. The are hopelessly helpless. It seems like they create blocks in their procedures designed to cause the need for the purchase of additional products. What a sleazy bunch. They are like parasites creating incurable diseases. One problem leads to the next, until they drive you crazy with their incompetence. For me, their name has become the same as EVIL. Quantum and Pride are good words that have been soiled when attached to their company name. It is hard to stay up when dealing with them. Shab

                  Originally posted by chick View Post
                  I found this, which I'm not sure is exactly what you have or not https://www.southwestmedical.com/rep...000xl-domestic

                  There seems to be a few different looking joystick controllers in the diagram, but they show the parts as well as how they are connected. You can also see 'Programmers' under the 'Joystick (master controls)'.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Shab,

                    Have you looked at the WheelchairJunkie site? Mark Smith, the guy that runs it is a Pride / Quantum manager.
                    Hated by some, loved by others, but he is known to help people when he can....

                    http://www.wheelchairjunkie.com

                    Ron.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Dear Ron, thanks for your input. I have read all Marks presentation even before your mention. I love the guy and think he is a wonderful person to look up to. I admire his interest in helping others and support his objectives. I hope he is highly paid for his work too.

                      Unfortunately I am new to Powerchair users. I have been more fortunate than most users, although I have had many challenges throughout my life. Earlier in my life, I experienced many non-walking periods, but had more strength and was able to overcome while using a standard wheelchair when needed. More unfortunately, at that time, I was much more selfish. I only concerned my own needs and did not look at others with less prospect for improved mobility. I am ashamed of my past selfishness, because had I paid more attention to others, I would have had time and ability to fight injustices throughout the Powerchair industry.

                      Unlike the competitive nature of most American companies, who like the computer industry competed with others to produce far reaching objectives that increased the capabilities of their products while reducing price to meet demand, the Powerchair industry has produced its profit increases by bribing the politicians and joining in the Insurance Industry's perversion of the American dream, by fixing their profits based on costs so that there was never a desire to lower costs. And all because the people they wished to gain their riches from were those least able to defend themselves. They make me want to upchuck.

                      Mark works for them, but is very little like them.

                      I hate the welfare system, which is kind of like the way the insurance company performs. I have qualified for public health for a decade, but cannot stomach the idea of putting what I consider luxuries on the public budget. There are plenty of charitable and generous people to take care of that need. There would be many more people to add to those generous ones if Insurance companies hadn't perverted their services, and if the government hadn't been so invasive to become the parents of those who are unproductive, forcing everyone to participate through taxation. They have just angered those who are not so generous, as well as, those who are generous but want to have impact on their generosity by placing it where needed rather than where some other person chooses.

                      I love where your heart obviously is. You are someone I would proudly call friend, but I have learned enough about the Powerchair Industry in the past few months to be outraged at their joint conduct in maintaining every increasing costs in an industry that could probably survive well, with honorable profits, while producing more for less for the consumer.

                      I am probably not going to live very long, so those who are offended by my outspoken anger won't have to tolerate me much longer, but I AM MAD AS HELL, AND I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE, from the pigs at the trough. I will go out fighting for a worthy cause.


                      Shab


                      Originally posted by Rononwheels View Post
                      Shab,

                      Have you looked at the WheelchairJunkie site? Mark Smith, the guy that runs it is a Pride / Quantum manager.
                      Hated by some, loved by others, but he is known to help people when he can....

                      http://www.wheelchairjunkie.com

                      Ron.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Ronon wheels;

                        You are very right about Mark, Unfortunately he does not permit dissent on this forums. He is the final word on technical things where his electronic, and mechanical skill fall short. I have been booted from that site for calling him out. I do not think of him as an advocate, he has sold us out. Sure he gives "stuff" away It is NOT "His" stuff he gives away.

                        I was a member there for quite a few years, As far as I know I am still banned. I have to say I DO understand why the Wheelchair Industry does some 'stuff' that make our lives tougher, there are too many tinkerers who think some modification idea is the greatest thing. But many cannot be implemented for 100% of users.

                        Most vendors of Power or manual chairs sell on what amounts to consignment, not as a direct factory representative. Few of actually them know anything about what really makes these things work. The single biggest complaint I hear is finding someone to six the damned thing when it won't go. Then getting someone to pay the much inflated repair costs. Most of us are not wealthy, and that's a fact Jack. I am fast reaching the point where I can't fix mine, any longer.

                        The other single biggest thing is keeping a spare chair at the ready if you are 100%+ dependent on it. Keeping the batteries charged with a three stage charger and with a dependable float charger cycle is very important. Batteries self discharge and then become sulfated hence unable to charge or discharge, A full floating charger will prevent this from occurring, though Lead Acid deep cell batteries, still have a limited life span. The deeper you discharge them between full charges the less life span you should expect. That is the simple way to explain deep cell batteries. If you want to be fully instructed go to Battery University. com. READ IT ALL! The different Chemistries can be fascinating. The go to WheelChair Driver. com and read all of the Burgerman's observations, through "his" trial and error processes, and "his" opinions on "his" results.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Bob Sullivan View Post
                          Ronon wheels;

                          You are very right about Mark, Unfortunately he does not permit dissent on this forums. He is the final word on technical things where his electronic, and mechanical skill fall short. I have been booted from that site for calling him out. I do not think of him as an advocate, he has sold us out. Sure he gives "stuff" away It is NOT "His" stuff he gives away.

                          I was a member there for quite a few years, As far as I know I am still banned. I have to say I DO understand why the Wheelchair Industry does some 'stuff' that make our lives tougher, there are too many tinkerers who think some modification idea is the greatest thing. But many cannot be implemented for 100% of users.

                          Most vendors of Power or manual chairs sell on what amounts to consignment, not as a direct factory representative. Few of actually them know anything about what really makes these things work. The single biggest complaint I hear is finding someone to six the damned thing when it won't go. Then getting someone to pay the much inflated repair costs. Most of us are not wealthy, and that's a fact Jack. I am fast reaching the point where I can't fix mine, any longer.

                          The other single biggest thing is keeping a spare chair at the ready if you are 100%+ dependent on it. Keeping the batteries charged with a three stage charger and with a dependable float charger cycle is very important. Batteries self discharge and then become sulfated hence unable to charge or discharge, A full floating charger will prevent this from occurring, though Lead Acid deep cell batteries, still have a limited life span. The deeper you discharge them between full charges the less life span you should expect. That is the simple way to explain deep cell batteries. If you want to be fully instructed go to Battery University. com. READ IT ALL! The different Chemistries can be fascinating. The go to WheelChair Driver. com and read all of the Burgerman's observations, through "his" trial and error processes, and "his" opinions on "his" results.

                          At the first, you said this forums. Did you mean this forum, or his forums? I don't want to be booted, so if he has influence on this forum, I will stop using it. I take free speech seriously and the telling of truth the same. So if I write anything, it is what I am thinking at the time. There is something seriously wrong with the Powerchair Industry, so I cannot walk lightly when talking or writing about it. If this forum is just a tool so that people in need help with wheelchair problems can communicate with each other for answers, I want to be here. If it is just a way for manufacturers to keep users from contacting them directly with their needs and complaints, I do not want to use it at all. That is just another way for them to be irresponsible and controlling of those who use and need power chairs. As long as this country tries to convince us that we are free and not subject to the whims of those who claim and demand power, I am in. In the past, dissent has been a strength in the US. What a cowardly way to conduct business and control others, if it is no longer that way.

                          Shab

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                          • #43
                            I meant "HIS"site, not "this" site! HIS site is of course "HIS" and he can accept what he wants. "THIS" site is "I" believe quite independent of his influence.

                            Mark is in a position to affect some change in attitude in the "Durable Medical Equipment" field as it applies to Powered wheelchairs. When given the chance he reverts back to those users who require specialized highly complicated devices. And he ignores the users of less complicated devices. Divide and conquer, there is proportionately, far less folks who actually require a more complicated device than those who do not. And of course they do require, and deserve a champion. Just do not leave the rest of us behind.

                            When a person who pretty much is on the "inside" and has some influence with the industry in general and a specific company in particular He is almost obligated, as a fellow HP, to support those in similar straits. Perhaps I am too harsh, but Mark has failed in this respect. Mark Smith is a "Pride" shill in my opinion. And I did not fail to remind him of my feelings. However, it was on his site ! And he had every right to kick me from writing on that site.

                            I truly; admire and respect how you feel about free speech, and this site is a very specialized part of social media, we should be free to express our feelings wherever they take you; "respectfully" here as it pertains to the specific forum.

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                            • #44
                              Do you guys think Pride actually wrote their own controller routines? I sort of get the feeling that they are just overlaying their 'accessories' onto some type of other industrial brushless motor control (correct me if I am wrong on the type of motors these things use). I don't know much about these things, but what does that guy Burgerman say about this stuff? He seems to really dig deep into this subject last I read his site a few years ago. My experience of brushless controllers in a hobby of mine would seem to suggest that things like delay and linearity would be a fairly easy thing to address if the proper access to the firmware was accomplished (not by some custom handheld device, but directly via serial connection and a computer with the appropriate software). Well, that's all I have to comment on this...I just get the feeling this is another smoke and mirrors "proprietary witchcraft" type of deal being made by a manufacturer.

                              Comment


                              • #45

                                Andy; You are right to the greatest extent, these hand held controllers for the appropriate model controller will do all this. And some models of controllers require a computer hook up,to accomplish the same things. Smoke and mirrors ? Absolutely !

                                Most of these motors are not brushless but are permanent magnet NOT wound fields as in the old days of DC motors and the better torque developers of these are 4 brush motors. Invacare did make a brushless chair, they were pretty effective but not successful. The controllers are simply a sort of transistor sort of solenoid thing called mosfets that control the amounts of voltage and amperage to the motors in a circuit board without gaining a terrible lot of heat, and the resulting power loss. I do wish I could explain this a lot better with the proper techie lingo.

                                I am not an electronic guy, I know just enough to be dangerous to myself. There are hobby guys who are quite astute and they use a high AMP output controller that can produce many more amps as well as volt control to these same motors we use in our chairs. I have never gotten into these hobby type of controllers. My brain doesn't function as it once did, when I fumble with new concepts and terminology.

                                Shab, asked some questions without giving enough information, and I have attempted to set him on a straight course to solving his programming problem, without more confusion. He should be able to control his chair with his joystick to make it go where he want's it to go immediately as he directs it or as fast as he can think where he wants it to go. This is programming, as such should not be complicated.

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