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I need help with measures, my English is poor. I want to buy A Tilite TRA online

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    I need help with measures, my English is poor. I want to buy A Tilite TRA online

    Help I am new to the forum, I'm from Ecuador, my English is not good. I want to buy A Tilite TRA online and in my country no TiLite sales representative or another brand to advise me, I've never measured, the chair have now is standard, without measures, brand whirlwind.

    My accident was 1 year 7 months ago, I have complete spinal T5 court, if I have some abs control.

    Please I need help filling out the form view TiLite.

    Height 5.54 "
    Approx Weight 180 lbs (I could not weigh myself)
    Measure the back of the knee to the heel 16 "
    Thigh length 17.5 "
    Shoulder Width 22-23 "
    Hip approx 17"(if it is not well measured)
    Hip to the head (without pillow) 32.28 "
    Hip to shoulder 22 "(without pillow)

    I spent 3 weeks trying to interpret and translate the view form, there are the tentative measures that I think are right for me, please correct me because I know nothing about it.

    I figured the sitting in the whirlwind wheelchair measures so they can have many errors, I tried to translate their forums, hope to have it right. Thank you very much for the help you can give me. Was very hard gather the money for the chair. if I make mistakes I can?t return the chair to us for a correction.

    Seat width 17 "
    Seat depth 17 "
    Front seat height 18 "
    Rear seat height 15 "
    Seat to footrest 15 "
    Angle adjustable Footrest
    Seat back adjustable aluminum Folding type
    Back release Titanium bars
    Integrated push handles fold down
    Seat back height medium 14 to 18.5 "set at 16"
    That locks When folded backrest
    4 "deep backrest bar rigidizer
    seat back angle 92 or 95 ??
    Center of gravity 2.5
    Front seat width (seat taper) taper No (2 "narrower than rear seat width)
    V Front end 13 "
    Rear wheel spacing 1 "
    Adjustable rear wheel camber spacing plugs
    2nd Titatium Camber camber tube
    Front angle 85 ?
    Black matte washes
    Front wheels 5 "x 1" Plastic Wheel with polytire
    Front forks Tilite standard - Titanium fork stem
    Rear wheels 24 "
    Stainless quick release axles
    Pneumatic rear tires 24 "Schwalbe Marathon Plus
    Composite scissor wheel locks
    Velcro adjustable back upholstery
    Tension adjustable upholstery Seat bolt on
    Foam cushions seat cushion 3 "
    Side guards Aluminium removable rigid standard
    Last edited by JOTTY88; 16 Aug 2015, 5:58 PM. Reason: error typing weight

    Jotty
    Ecuadorian, athlete. T5 T4 paraplegic spinal cord injury since Dec 2013

    #2
    I'm interested in helping, but it's too late tonight. PM me if I don't post in this thread tomorrow.
    Chas
    TiLite TR3
    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
    <
    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

    Comment


      #3
      Ok perfect.!! Thank you so much. See you tomorrow

      Jotty
      Ecuadorian, athlete. T5 T4 paraplegic spinal cord injury since Dec 2013

      Comment


        #4
        Did you look at ICON? You can make it fit you after it arrives at your house. One of hardest issues to get correct is chair/seat width. But believe it or not, with the ICON you can adjust it to fit.
        I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

        Comment


          #5
          You did well with your English. The forms are difficult enough and another language makes it even more difficult.

          Although we ordered my husband's TiLite ZRA chair locally in Holland, we needed to do most of the configuration ourselves. Because prices were so high here we ordered as many of the options that we could online in the US and had them shipped. So I completely understand your concerns and why you need to get it right, especially with high shipping costs.

          I do think it is good that you are going with an adjustable chair like the TRA and overall your choices look good. What Nonoise said about the Icon is also good, because you can adjust pretty much everything.

          If at all possible, I would try to get the best measurements that you can for anything that is not adjustable. I don't feel qualified enough to help much on the measurements, but I'll give a few of my notes on the most important measurements that others can comment on.

          Seat width 17", I would make sure you get this properly measured because you can not adjust it on a TRA. A common way to measure is the maximum width of the hips at at the widest point (the greater trochanters) and add 1" for comfort. Remember that the narrower the chair the better for getting through doorways.

          Seat depth 17" with a thigh length (upper leg length) of 17.5" measured from the back of buttocks to back of the knee, you may want to consider a little bit less so that you are not rubbing up against the seat base/sling or cushion. Many people say there should be 2" clearance (space) or about 2-3 finger widths.

          Front seat height 18" measured from the back of the knee to the heel 16", this is usually measured from under the knee (popliteal fossa) to the bottom of the heel with shoes on, then subtract the cushion height and seat base/sling height and add a minimum of 2" for clearance under the footrest.

          Rear seat height 15", this is usually measured by the Arm Length: Shoulder to finger tips and subtract the Shoulder Height: Seat surface to top of shoulder to get the Seat Surface to Axel Height. Then add the Rear Wheel Diameter multiplied by .5 (half). I think chasmengr and others can give you some better tips on how to measure this and also Center of gravity, but they are both adjustable should you need to change it.

          V Front end 13", I don't have any experience with this, but I've read that you should make sure it is wide enough if you wear big boots.

          Seat to footrest 15", this is usually measured by the Lower leg length: and subtract the cushion height and seat base/sling height. You can add approximately 1" for seat compression and comfort as long as long as there is a minimum of 2" for clearance under the footrest.

          Seat back angle 92 or 95 ??, the degree of bend of the back rest post in relation to the floor, many people here, including us, go with 92 degree. 95 degree = back is leaning back from frame (reclining), 90 degree = back is perpendicular with frame, 85 degree = back is leaning forward of frame.

          Front angle 85 ?, this is the angle between the floor beneath the seat base/sling and the front frame's intersection with the floor. 90 degree = calves/feet perpendicular with floor and upper leg, 85 degree = feet are more forward. Many people, including us, go with 85 degree so that the overall chair length is not too long and it is still comfortable. My husbands has spasms and sometimes we wish the angle was 80 degree, but we would not want a longer chair.

          I did not see anything about Camber, the angle from wheel to vertical at the floor. Many people go with 2 degree for an everyday chair so that it is not too wide but has some stability.

          I was wondering if you might want to consider different front casters. I know you have rough pavements there, much like we have here in Holland, and aluminum wheels with soft roll tires might be more robust (stronger) and a smoother ride. If ordering online you might be able to configure it with FrogLegs EPIC Aluminum Wide Softroll Caster (many people call them FLASHRs) or you could order the TiLite LiteSpeed Billet Aluminum Wheel with Soft Roll Tire.

          What we did was order the "no charge (NCO)" plastic wheel with poly tire and we ordered the FrogLegs casters separately because it was cheaper. It also gave us backups, which is nice to have. If you do this, you may want to note on the order form something like "Front forks need to support up to to 1.5" wide casters" to make sure the fork is wide enough. See page 8-1.2.2 of the Parts Manual Section 8 - Casters, Forks, & Caster Caps.

          If you are wanting to save a little money to get better casters, you might consider the aluminum back release bar to go with the aluminum seat back. I have not heard others, nor have we had any problems with it's strength.

          For rear wheels, we ordered the standard TiLite Shadow wheels and they are nice. We did swap them out with Spinergy LX's bought online, but you can always do that later if you find the need. We also have the Schwalbe Marathon Plus Evolution tires and they are almost indestructible. You may want to consider spare tubes when ordering.

          I don't know enough about your situation for pressure relief, but you might also want to consider a better cushion. We ordered the chair without a cushion and ordered a cushion separately online. Many people who live in a warm and humid climate seem happy with the Supracor Stimulite cushions. If you do go with another type of cushion, make sure you calculate it in with the front seat height and seat to footrest measurement. My husband has a Varilite Evolution PSV that we are happy with, and by adding or releasing air he can adjust for height a little bit. If you go with an air cushion like the Varilite, make sure you order a spare valve kit and repair kit when you order the cushion.

          Especially because you are ordering internationally, make sure you get a CAD drawing before you sign off on the order.

          Best of luck, and feel free to ask as many questions as you need to so you get it right. You can do this, and there are many willing to help.
          Last edited by elarson; 17 Aug 2015, 9:44 AM. Reason: typo's
          Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

          Comment


            #6
            Thank you very much for responding. In Ecuador I don?t meet any person using ICON, did not know that brand, just now that I read to you I looked for and found it interesting, but in my country the streets are very irregular, there are not many ramps, it?s difficult rolling in the chair. I need a very resistant, hardy wheelchair, lightweight and it lasts for years, I was told that titanium is the best. And they do not need small spare parts because in my country can not be achieved.

            Jotty
            Ecuadorian, athlete. T5 T4 paraplegic spinal cord injury since Dec 2013

            Comment


              #7
              There will be people who disagree with my view, but I also think titanium is the best for a chair that needs to last for years. Both of my husbands chairs are titanium. One is 4 years old and the other is 2 years old. The frame on both are doing very well. The weakest points seem to be fastners (screws/bolts), but but mostly they can be replaced easily.

              We like the Natural Titanium Satin finish frame because you can buff away scratches. My husband has visual problems so that means his chair takes a lot of abuse and gets a lot of scratches. He is also a painter, so I scrape a lot of paint off of it. Scraping off the paint is no problem on the natural titanium, but on aluminum parts I am sometimes scraping the anodising off. I think my husband would have liked the Matte Black Lava paint, but I was worried that it would not look nice after a few years. Maybe some others can advise about this.

              Just as a note, living in a country that is not very accessible without many ramps, people will need to be able to help lift your chair on stairs. TiLite says "NEVER attempt to lift a wheelchair by lifting on any removable (detachable) parts, including upholstery and removable push handles or push handle grips.". Officially that also means the folding seat back and rigidizer bar. The only option around this is to get a chair like the TR with a Non-Folding, Fixed Height seat back. For many people like us, that would not be practical because we could not fit the chair in an auto. If you need to be lifted a lot, you may want to consider the Custom Height Backrest Rigidizer Bar so that you can place it higher than the standard 6" above the Seat Sling. Unfortunately, they charge $150 for this option. Maybe you won't need it if you have a lot of strong friends, but I really struggle with our low rigidizer bar on stairs, and if anyone helps they never listen and grab the fold-down push handles, and they are becoming lose now. The maximum height is 3" less than Lowest Seat Back Height without push handles.

              Originally posted by JOTTY88 View Post
              I need a very resistant, hardy wheelchair, lightweight and it lasts for years, I was told that titanium is the best.
              Last edited by elarson; 17 Aug 2015, 6:57 PM. Reason: typo's
              Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

              Comment


                #8
                Elarson, nice to meet you understand my preoccupation perfectly, exactly, shipping costs and import taxes are very high, I cant make mistakes.

                So the hip width is 17 "should increase the width of chair 18", what worries me about that is that in my city few doors meet the standard measures are very close, but you are right .

                With the depth of the seat, I left 3 fingers of space.

                Front seat height 18 "I took the measure and thus leaving 3" between the floor and the footrest on the issue of irregular streets.

                Rear seat height 15 "this measure is a bit complicated, I do not understand much translating it, but I'll try. Although I can adjust it reassuring to know that then.

                v front end, had doubts whether to stay with the standard or it was better to be the front v, the difference is only esthetic? or I really will facilitate my transfer?

                Seat to footrest 15 "if I consider the measure knee to heel by subtracting the measure of the pillow and increasing 1" the result would be 14 "but would be a space from floor to footplate 4" would be too much.

                I understood. 92 Seat back angle

                Front angle 85 Here I have a question, I thought 85 ? legs they got a little inward from the chair. It is the opposite? Because that did not want a long wheelchair. And aesthetically would have legs a bit stuck. I do not know if that's bad for the circulation and better have my feet a little out of the chair?

                you're right, I forgot to mention the camber, is 2 ?, although I worry about what doors but if I want to have a little more stability and speed.

                On the front wheels these are the options in the viewform: Remember thick wheels and lasting need for the type of streets, so do not get into the slots or damaged.

                4 "x1.5" LiteSpeed ​​Plastic Wheel w / Soft Roll Tire (Not available with heavy Duty Power Adaptable Frame or Frame.) $ 80
                4 "x1.5" LiteSpeed ​​Billet Aluminum Wheel w / Soft Roll Tire ❑ ❑ Black OR Silver Hub Hub $ 175
                5 "x1" Plastic Wheel w / Poly Tire (Not available with heavy Duty Frame, 90 Front Angle L, Slipstream Fork, Glide ?
                Single-Sided Fork or Adaptive Power Frame.) NCO
                5 "x1.5" LiteSpeed ​​Plastic Wheel w / Soft Roll Tire (Not available with heavy Duty Frame, 90 or L Front Angle
                Adaptive Power Frame.) $ 80
                5 "x.75" LiteSpeed ​​Billet Aluminum Wheel w / Poly Tire ❑ ❑ Black OR Silver Hub Hub (Not available With 90
                Front Angle L.) $ 145
                5 "x1.5" LiteSpeed ​​Billet Aluminum Wheel w / Soft Roll Tire ❑ ❑ Black OR Silver Hub Hub (Not available With 90
                Front Angle L.) $ 18

                If you'll check in the Manual of the front forks.

                If you have considered buying the pillow separately elsewhere because prices are delas pillows to offer very expensive for my budget, perhaps on other sites I can get it at a lower price:
                ❑ Foam Cushion 2 "❑ 3" ❑ 4 "$ 99
                StimuLITE? Sport (2 "Black 12" x12 "to 20" x 20 ". Please allow an additional 2-3 weeks delivery.). $ 525
                Corbee? (2 "Black 6" x 6 "to 16" x 16 ". Please allow an additional 2-3 weeks delivery.) $ 525
                Low Profile? ROHO? Quadtro? Select (Black only. Please allow an additional 2-3 weeks delivery.) $ 525
                VARILITE? Evolution ? (Black only. See Chart below.) $ 525
                VARILITE? Zoid ? (Black only. See Chart below.) $ 525

                The CAD drawing is sent by sportaid me if I buy? I always ask or shipped?

                Thank you very much, you helped me a lot, tonight I will take the Measures you provided me and I write them again. Thank You !!
                Last edited by JOTTY88; 17 Aug 2015, 4:19 PM.

                Jotty
                Ecuadorian, athlete. T5 T4 paraplegic spinal cord injury since Dec 2013

                Comment


                  #9
                  Front Casters: For irregular streets, of the options TiLite offers folks here often recommend: 5 "x1.5" LiteSpeed ​​Billet Aluminum Wheel w / Soft Roll Tire

                  "Rear Seat Height" and "Seat to footrest" are both affected by how tall your cushion is. So you might want to choose a cushion before you choose the final measurements.

                  Front Angle: see this picture to help illustrate the differences. https://www.facebook.com/94570166681...type=3&theater

                  Front End V vs. Taper: this image shows the difference. http://www.phc-online.com/v/vspfiles...foot-space.gif
                  --------------------------------
                  TiLite Aero Z since 10/2014
                  I have Dysautonomia which results in the inability to stand or walk for more than a couple of minutes.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    eLarson and Chasmenger are some of the "experts" for spec'ing out the chair. Glad you have found us.

                    I do not have spinal cord injury; I have a disability called Cerebral Palsy, but I wanted to mention something.

                    I want to point out that cushion quality is very important (for what you are sitting on), and that the cushion will be a defense against getting pressure sores from bad positioning. I myself have a pelvic tilt that doctors just discovered, and I have finally gotten a properly fitted cushion to help with that problem.

                    Now that I have the better cushion with the right positioning I am able to hold myself up in the chair without having to lean against the side guards or armrests as much to help hold my positioning. The cushion also helps me not to get pain near my tailbone from improper sitting and bad pressure.

                    I also have issues with my back where I need a special kind of back to help me sit up straight and be supported properly. With a proper back and cushion I feel much more secure in my chair and my skin seems to be doing better; no pain or red spots.

                    Everyone varies with what they need and like; what works for me may not work for you. But I wanted to say that a proper cushion and a proper back are nothing to skimp on, in many ways they are worth the investment because they make it more comfortable and minimize bad things happening to me.

                    I am certainly not saying spend a ton of money on a really expensive cushion; the price tag is not a guarantee that the cushion will be what you need. Once you find a good cushion, certainly look for the best price. More expensive isn't always better and, at least in the USA, tends to vary greatly for the exact same product depending on where you buy it.

                    Best of luck! All the information so far is very good.
                    Mystery

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by JOTTY88 View Post
                      Elarson, nice to meet you understand my preoccupation perfectly, exactly, shipping costs and import taxes are very high, I cant make mistakes.
                      Nice to meet you too Jotty88. I am not an "expert" like Mystery said. I am someone who was forced to figure out a lot of things to help my husband, and it is because of this forum that I learned a lot. I still consider myself rather new at all of this, so please understand that and get as much advice as you possibly can from others too.

                      About taxes and import duties, check with your government to find out if there are lower taxes for medical equipment. I had the online dealer label the boxes with "medical equipment -- wheelchair" in our local language to make sure we were charged the lower tax rate.

                      So the hip width is 17 "should increase the width of chair 18", what worries me about that is that in my city few doors meet the standard measures are very close, but you are right .
                      That is a difficult question. If you think you will be comfortable with the sideguards being that close to you it will be okay. With the 1" wheel spacing you may also have a little room to play with. Some people gain weight after using a chair for some time, but it seems like most people loose weight from their butt after some time, like my husband did.

                      With the depth of the seat, I left 3 fingers of space.
                      You should be good on that.

                      Front seat height 18 "I took the measure and thus leaving 3" between the floor and the footrest on the issue of irregular streets.
                      We have cobblestones and irregular streets and we find 2" of clearance is enough. I also think this is affecting your Seat to footrest measurement.

                      Rear seat height 15 "this measure is a bit complicated, I do not understand much translating it, but I'll try. Although I can adjust it reassuring to know that then.
                      Yes, it is complicated. I think the best advice I heard was to sit on a flat chair with your arms loosely extended at your sides. Put books under you until your fingertips are at what would be the center of the axle. For you with 24" wheels it would be 12" from the ground. Make sure you include the depth of the cushion with the books. You may want to take away a little bit for compression of the cushion and seat sling.

                      v front end, had doubts whether to stay with the standard or it was better to be the front v, the difference is only esthetic? or I really will facilitate my transfer?
                      My husband is not SCI, but stroke (CVA), so I can not answer this good. From what I have read from others, the purpose of the V front end is for keeping your legs together so they don't come apart (splay).

                      Seat to footrest 15 "if I consider the measure knee to heel by subtracting the measure of the pillow and increasing 1" the result would be 14 "but would be a space from floor to footplate 4" would be too much.
                      That is what I was confused about your measurements. I think space from floor to footplate 4" would be too much. I think you should think again about the Front seat height.

                      I understood. 92 Seat back angle
                      This seems the most standard that I have found.

                      Front angle 85 Here I have a question, I thought 85 ? legs they got a little inward from the chair. It is the opposite? Because that did not want a long wheelchair. And aesthetically would have legs a bit stuck. I do not know if that's bad for the circulation and better have my feet a little out of the chair?
                      Yes, it is the opposite. Take a look at the CAD Repository so you get an idea what others do.

                      you're right, I forgot to mention the camber, is 2 ?, although I worry about what doors but if I want to have a little more stability and speed.
                      This seems the most standard that I have found.

                      On the front wheels these are the options in the viewform: Remember thick wheels and lasting need for the type of streets, so do not get into the slots or damaged...
                      Lasting needs is why I think you need wider stronger aluminum soft rolls. Go check Bike-On and Sportaid -- they both have good online configuration forms with prices and you can also order other options not available by TiLite, and they are use to dealing internationally. I have heard that Wheelchair Cushion Sage is good too for international, but they don't have all of the configuration forms online.

                      If you'll check in the Manual of the front forks.
                      If you buy online at a good dealer, they will understand this. Just make sure you include it with your order form that it is needed.

                      If you have considered buying the pillow separately elsewhere because prices are delas pillows to offer very expensive for my budget, perhaps on other sites I can get it at a lower price...
                      This is the same answer about buying online from a good dealer as I listed above.

                      The CAD drawing is sent by sportaid me if I buy? I always ask or shipped?
                      If you buy online at a good dealer and request a CAD drawing with the offer, you will receive a CAD drawing. Do not do it without it!

                      Thank you very much, you helped me a lot, tonight I will take the Measures you provided me and I write them again. Thank You !!
                      You are very welcome. I am going to send you a personal message with my recommendation of who I would deal with if I were you.

                      P.S. This shows some good photo's of measurements http://www.spinalcord.org/pdf/ins-outs-of-manual-wheelchairs.pdf
                      Last edited by elarson; 17 Aug 2015, 7:25 PM.
                      Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Jotty, IMHO everyone is providing great advice. I have little to add. I will reinforce, though; your English is pretty good.

                        I'm no 'expert' either; just a fussy user.

                        I prefer 4 degrees camber for the added knuckle protection.
                        I prefer V front because I have feelings in my legs, and the bends in the standard front end bug me.
                        11" wide front works for me: size 8.5EE boots.
                        I recommend 1/2" wheel spacing, then using spacers to enlarge spacing if 1/2" is too close.
                        I, too, strongly recommend buying a good cushion separately from the chair.
                        Last edited by chasmengr; 17 Aug 2015, 7:19 PM.
                        Chas
                        TiLite TR3
                        Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
                        I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

                        "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
                        <
                        UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Great way to describe it. I'm just a fussy user's partner. I help buy, fix, transfer and transport, and try to make sure my partner is as safe as can be, and most importantly, as happy as can be. It's not something I was planning on...
                          Originally posted by chasmengr View Post
                          I'm no 'expert' either; just a fussy user.
                          Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Apologies to eLarson & chasmenger. I did not mean to cause offense or confusion by using the term "expert." I like the term "fussy user" much better.

                            Jotty88, you are still in very good hands. Many people on CareCure know amazing amounts of things, and it is a wealth of information.

                            Mystery

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thanks, Mystery
                              Chas
                              TiLite TR3
                              Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
                              I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

                              "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
                              <
                              UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

                              Comment

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