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Need advice on ordering Tilite TR3 and COG

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    #31
    Originally posted by JeffAdams View Post
    You should look at adjustable chairs . . .
    Jeff makes a great point.

    I started with an adjustable chair, then spent several years tweaking & modifying it to serve me well. My next chair's configuration is based very strongly on the dimensions of my modified adjustable chair - no guessing.
    Chas
    TiLite TR3
    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
    <
    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

    Comment


      #32
      what's up partner. I haven't read every comment/response. I'm not trying to be a smart ass but I don't know your situation. If I were you, I'd try to get a hold of a therapist or at the very least see or visit a ti lite rep. in person. I'm lucky that after several wheelchairs I landed a therapist that was really knowledgeable with ordering/sizing/fitting the proper wheelchair for me. I always felt that I was sitting on top of a wheelchair rather than sitting "in it". Her expertise made a world of difference in not only getting the configuration right, but the way I pushed, the manner in which I stroked the rim, the length of my arms, she didn't miss a beat. She factored in every little detail you can think of. She asked about my arm strength, my stamina, the level of my wc skills, where I was going to be pushing primarily. She asked about 101 questions. She was extremely thorough. I never knew about "dump" or "bucket" etc. Had I ordered the chair on my own just trying to fill the chart/form, I surely would have loused things up, let alone made the right choices. I'm not implying that you'll do the same as it appears you're asking questions and trying to educate yourself to keep from making the same mistake. If push comes to shove then I'd give you the same advice as other members have and get something adjustable. These wheelchairs aren't cheap, bad mistakes can be costly. We almost have the same build/physique. I'm 6'0 160. although I'm a T3 complete. If you'd like I can send you photos me in my chair and the dimensions of my TR3. Good luck my friend and if there's anything I can do to help, please pm me.

      Comment


        #33
        Hello everyone:

        I took a little break from wheelchair specifying to take stock and think about what everyone was saying. But, I want to say the generous feedback I have received here has been invaluable in specifying the new chair. And I know everyone on this forum knows just how important that is.

        i.e. Brianm and others have pointed out my current chair is too wide. That thought never even occurred to me... and after research have found that too wide a chair can be responsible for hip displacement and scoliosis... which unfortunately, I've already started to suffer from (I've been using a too wide wheelchair for 33 years).

        After testing one out at the therapists, I'm specifiying a 16" wide chair. 2" narrower. A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

        Another major help was Chasmengr's video. I was able to see the actual dump angle of the new chair vs. my old and will adjust my rear seat height up a bit.

        Way back in the thread I mentioned have a sling seat and loosened it to give me more dump.. but this is bad for the posture. A suggestion made here to get a board insert will be acted on.

        Also, many have advised getting an adjustable chair. That is probably wise, but I think it's hard to translate some measurements of chair types to others. Also, the one thing I like about my Tilite is it's solid and lightweight design. The adjustables are a bit of a compromise along those lines. Plus, I feel, despite the seemingly millions of variations, I can use my current chair and it's faults to get me very close to perfect. (Again, advise here has been essential) Plus, there is always some adjustability with the seat sling (ill advised I know) and wheel size (24 vs. 25) that can fine tune even the non adjustable chair.. if I'm a little off.

        Mike G: I have been consulting with a specialist at Magee Rehab in Phila. My therapist has many years of experience. She does however state that beyond the basics, much of a fit is personal preference. She has been very helpful... but, she doesn't use a wheelchair, and you guys do. In the end I will spec it based on my experience, the forum's experience and the therapists knowledge dealing with years of this stuff.

        Here's where I am now...

        NEW CHAIR SPECS:


        Tilite TR Series 3
        Seat Width (no taper): 16" (was 18")
        18" Seat Depth
        No Custom Frame Depth (I decided the extra inch wasn't going to effect my position relative to the seat posts... which I tend to sit behind an inch or 2)
        70 Degree Front Angle (Was 60 degree)
        19.5" Front Seat Height
        17.5" Rear Seat Height (Was 18.5) (16.00" with loosened seat upholstery)
        17" Seat To Footrest Height (Was 17.5")
        Adustable Footrest 10? Wide
        4? Deep Ridgedizer bar
        Folding Seat back (aluminum)13.5? -16.5?(integrated push handles)
        Set @ 13.5"
        92 Degree Back
        3.0" Center Of Gravity
        .75" Rear Wheel Spacing
        Titanium Camber Tube TRCBR3
        2 Degree Camber (Was 4 degree)
        Standard Push breaks
        6?x1.5? LiteSpeed Billet Aluminum Wheel w/Soft Roll Tire
        Standard Fork w/ Titanium Stems
        Rear Wheels: 25" Golz Twin-star Exchange Wheels w/
        Schwalbe marathon plus evolusion (current chair: 24" LX Spinergy)
        Short Tab Aluminum Handrims
        Axles: Stainless Quick Release TRAXL1
        Back Upholstery TRBUP2 ❑ Velcro Adjustable
        Will replace with Jayback J3 with extended hardware
        Seat Upholstery:Tension adjustable by straps (was bolt on)
        Roho Cushion high profile.


        I'll sleep on it for a couple of days and pull the trigger on the order.
        If anyone sees any glaring errors... please let me know!


        Thank you

        Scott

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by TogsT8 View Post
          ...clip...and wheel size (24 vs. 25) that can fine tune even the non adjustable chair....clip...
          You're braver than me. I'd never order a new fixed chair.
          Fixed chairs are not as adjustable as you might think. The caster steering axle, the vertical axle, cannot be adjusted and it must be kept vertical. Changes to the rear wheels configuration can affect those front steering axles.
          Last edited by nonoise; 18 Mar 2015, 6:34 PM.
          I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

          Comment


            #35
            Glad the video helped

            Like nonoise says, on a fixed chair (e.g., TR) any change to the diameter of the rear wheel assembly (wheel and or tire) should be equally compensated for by equivalent changes to the caster/fork configuration to maintain vertical fork stems, or the performance of the chair will be diminished by off-vertical fork stems, which can cause flutter, crooked tracking, harder propulsion, etc.
            Chas
            TiLite TR3
            Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
            I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

            "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
            <
            UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

            Comment


              #36
              Yep. I thought about that. I was kind of hoping a small change in the angle wouldn't affect the front casters...
              but I secretly worried. (I'm not that courageous.) OK.. well that idea is out. I'll just have to stick to seat sling if necessary. Again... my current chair is a TR3 and I've had to loosen the sling seat to give 2" to make it lower. This should be a major improvement from that.

              Thanks for clarifying the verticality issue.

              Comment


                #37
                RHave you looked closely at the new design of the TRA? I don't think you would be giving up much if anything in durability or weight; it is a "simple" clean design. You have to be in this chair all day. Wouldn't you rather be in a chair that is correct than one you have to Jerry-rig to work?

                I am glad you came to determine your correct width for a chair, that is excellent. I really hope you re-think the TRA option. Loosening the seat straps takes away from the proper fit of the chair.

                BTW...Don't forget side guards; you will want them with the narrower chair.
                Last edited by Brianm; 18 Mar 2015, 9:14 PM.
                C5-6 Complete - 8/13/1982

                Comment


                  #38
                  Awesome Togs. Keep up updated. Having/using a right fitted chair makes a world of difference.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Mike G. View Post
                    . . . Having/using a right fitted chair makes a world of difference.
                    x3
                    Chas
                    TiLite TR3
                    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
                    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

                    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
                    <
                    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by TogsT8 View Post
                      Yep. I thought about that. I was kind of hoping a small change in the angle wouldn't affect the front casters...
                      but I secretly worried. (I'm not that courageous.) OK.. well that idea is out. I'll just have to stick to seat sling if necessary. Again... my current chair is a TR3 and I've had to loosen the sling seat to give 2" to make it lower. This should be a major improvement from that.

                      Thanks for clarifying the verticality issue.
                      On the TR being ordered for me now (CAD arrived today at clinician- I'll see it tomorrow!!), I specified the 5" casters be mounted in the middle fork hole to allow me to use my winter tires which are 1" larger OD than my summer tires. When I install winter tires, I can simply raise the chair 1/2" both front and back at the same time. (This idea won't work with 6" casters because they must be mounted in the bottom hole.)

                      Also:

                      Click image for larger version

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                      Last edited by chasmengr; 19 Mar 2015, 1:14 AM.
                      Chas
                      TiLite TR3
                      Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
                      I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

                      "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
                      <
                      UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Without side guards and a tight fitted chair, the tires would "eat up/destroy" any clothing resting against tires while you propel yourself. This would happen fairly quick.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          TRA: I did try and TRA and it seemed much heavier than 2 lbs. heavier... perhaps it was an older model. I will look into that.

                          SIDEGUARDS: Sounds good. I see a few options: The extra small aluminum ones seem like they would do the job. (Though they are listed in the options catalog but not the order form.) Removable seems like a good idea. Anyone have a preference?

                          WHEELS: Anyone have any experience with Golz TWIN-STAR Exchange? My Spinergy LXs tend to bend into the frame around tight corners. These Golz are supposed to be more rigid. There's been some discussion on another thread about them.. but not too much. Good wheel or Maintenance nightmare?

                          Comment


                            #43
                            If you don't mind springing for the extra cost, I like the carbon fiber side-guards; I like the look, they are also lighter for what it is worth. But if you don't care, aluminum or carbon fiber are fine. I use the removable versions, in standard size.
                            C5-6 Complete - 8/13/1982

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Ok... now I'm getting cold feet about the TR3 vs. the adjustable TRA. There certainly doesn't appear to be much difference. I can live with 2 lbs. of weight for the flexibility. But... Can anyone with TRA experience attest to the solidity of the frame? Does the adjustable back height mechanism make noise? Also... adjusting the COG looks tricky because the rear axle mounts to the frame that is angled for the dump. (2" in my case) Is it?

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by TogsT8 View Post
                                ...clip... adjusting the COG looks tricky because the rear axle mounts to the frame that is angled for the dump...clip... (2" in my case) Is it?
                                Excellent observation. I have the earlier version of that mounting hardware on my 3D and yes you are correct. Move the COG and the dump changes and so that affects the COG more that expected one way or the other. The dump has to be readjusted where it should have been. It just means more steps, perfectly doable. I don't understand your adjustable back height question. Are you wondering if the uprights will wiggle with the addition of the Jayback? I don't know, maybe someone does.

                                I've been puzzling over your dump method, "17.5" Rear Seat Height (Was 18.5) (16.00" with loosened seat upholstery)". It apparently worked at 18 inch seat width, but at 16 inch width I'm not so sure. Think about it. The radius is shorter and your hips will be squeezed between the edges more than they were before.
                                I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

                                Comment

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