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    Looking for feedback regarding Tilte ZR order.

    I wouldn't mind some input from the wise wheelchair gurus.
    I am a crutch walking incomplete L1, who has used for the past 11 year, an old Quickie GPV. Now that I have good insurance, I am buying my first "good wheelchair" . I left Craig Hospital 12 years ago with a 16 inch wide tilite even though I fit into a 14 inch wide chair. They assured me that I would gain weight with SCI. I never did and still fit into a 14 inch wide chair.
    So being semi-ambulatory, I lowered the chair so I could use my right leg to push me around the house and took the footrest out totally. I know it is only a matter of time that I injury my leg and would be a full time chair user, so I am ordering a Tilite ZR this week- a chair that really fits me.
    Here is what I am planning. I am 5'7" and 150 lbs.
    14" wide, 17" deep (I am going to use my current Ride Cushion),seat to footrest 17",non folding 90 degree 9 inch back, no dump- front and rear seat height 19",COG- 2.25 ",aluminum camber tube ,camber - 0 degrees (zero), rear wheel spacing - 1"front wheels - 4 x 1.5 soft roll silver ,Slipstream one sided fork, 25" Spinergy LX with large Surge push rims, long tabs.
    I am trying to get the lightest, tightest ride I can reasonably get.
    QUESTION- 1- should I get 85 degree or 90 degree front angle given my condition? (I stand up during the day to transfer)
    QUESTION- 2 -
    Since I don't really have a prior chair to determine COG, the DME came up with 2.25". This was based on the DME's assessment of me in my Quickie GPV chair without foot rests. Should I rely on her determination?

    #2
    My 2cents worth:
    - because you can stand (I can,too), consider TiLite's flip-back footrest. I love mine.
    - are you exceptionally confident in your measurements? The ZR is very minimally adjustable; the ZRA weighs a bit more (~1.5#), but if decide you want some dump, you can adjust the ZRA to get it; you cannot adjust it on a ZR.
    - a welded back does save weight over a folding. I use a solid, adjustable backrest, and plan to get a welded back, too, but I can adjust the backrest.
    - ANSWER 1) measure your Overall Frame Length (OFL), then choose most any front angle you desire, and indicate on the order form for TiLite to customize the frame depth (Z2SD3) to achieve OFL. (OFL [not on TiLite's order forms] is the horizontal length from the front of the backrest canes to the front of the frame; easy way to measure OFL is to push front of existing chair against wall, then measure horizontally from wall to front of canes. {method conceived by CCC member SCI_OTR}.)
    - ANSWER 2) NO. another reason for ZRA instead of ZR because the Cog adjustment range of the ZR is quite limited (2.25") compared to the ZRA (6").

    Compare the ZR and ZRA on TiLite.com. Also look at the TR and TRA. I'm currently in an AeroZ1 (aluminum version of ZRA), but will be fitted for my next chair on Feb 3rd (TR3 I'm told).
    Last edited by chasmengr; 25 Jan 2015, 11:02 PM.
    Chas
    TiLite TR3
    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
    <
    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

    Comment


      #3
      well, SCI_OTR is back "in da house". Hopefully with all the current questions he sticks around. Anyone else here is but a novice. He has been, and forever shall be our resident pro.

      My quick recommendation on your COG quandary - order a TR. Infinite COG adjustment. Plus the box-frame is better-suited to remove the footrest - more strength due to the lower frame members. Also it is a slightly lighter chair than an equal ZR. With your zero-dump setup there will be no possibility of caster float/wobble even if you adjust the COG from 0 to 6". Should be able to dial in a chair like that so that the front casters float weightlessly, will push like a champ.

      Comment


        #4
        Don't do it. Get an adjustable chair. I use a GPV indoors, am sitting on one right now and have a ZR at a lower level of my house. It's like there is no comparison of the two dimension wise, you will get screwed up. Whereas for a slight compromise in weight you can get full adjustability with the ZRA. Then on the next upgrade get a fixed chair.
        Last edited by nonoise; 25 Jan 2015, 11:14 PM.
        I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

        Comment


          #5
          Chasmenger, tooley, and nonoise - thank you for your sage opinions.

          Nonoise- what would be the chances that a person with average build would have a COG out of the range of 1.25"-3.5" (which is what the DME is proposing with the ZR COG @ 2.25")?

          tooley - I see your point about the TR.

          Chasmenger - you are all in unison about ZRA and not a ZR in my case. Regarding ever desiring dump - I have been fused from the pelvis to T11 in extension (for ambulation) and can not in my lifetime bring my chest near my knees. It is hard to flex and tie my shoelaces. I don't anticipate wanting to close my chest to knee angle with dump.

          After 12.5 years of SCI, I should know more about chairs than I do. But I can field all the questions about Canadian Crutches....

          Comment


            #6
            I just received my new Tr last Friday replacing my old Tr which replaced a ZR. The new Tr's are really nice, big improvement over the last one. I had to increase the cog by 1/2" to get the same balance point to the old one. I hated the ZR because of the larger tubing needed and it didn't feel as quick as the Tr's; especially with the cog adjustment. The ZR had 1/4 inch increments while the Tr I could adjust an 1/8" or less. I first did a 3/8" cog increase and found it wasn't enough added an 1/8th and was perfect. If I had to adjust it up a 1/4 rather than an 1/8th, it would have been too much. The old Tr cog was set at 3.75" New Tr cog set at 4.25".

            I changed out their scissor locks with Quickie scissor locks. The handles on the Ti are so far in it's difficult to reach while the Quickie handles are spot on; no reach whatsoever. If you like to grab the frame when transferring make sure you get the added inch to the frame.

            After dozens of chairs literally, this Tr is abut the best I've had so far. I'm really impressed with the quality and welds done. I wish they had better brakes though.
            Last edited by Patrick Madsen; 26 Jan 2015, 4:07 PM.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by arndog View Post
              Chasmenger, tooley, and nonoise - thank you for your sage opinions.

              Nonoise- what would be the chances that a person with average build would have a COG out of the range of 1.25"-3.5" (which is what the DME is proposing with the ZR COG @ 2.25")?

              tooley - I see your point about the TR.

              Chasmenger - you are all in unison about ZRA and not a ZR in my case. Regarding ever desiring dump - I have been fused from the pelvis to T11 in extension (for ambulation) and can not in my lifetime bring my chest near my knees. It is hard to flex and tie my shoelaces. I don't anticipate wanting to close my chest to knee angle with dump.

              After 12.5 years of SCI, I should know more about chairs than I do. But I can field all the questions about Canadian Crutches....
              It is being sized to your "average build" so we have to discount that in my opinion. I thought what you have going for you is that you want a 90 degree back rest and zero dump. But I now think it will be harder to get weight off the front end under those parameters with minor adjustments to the cog.
              Do what Tooley said and look at the TR.
              I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by nonoise View Post
                . . .Do what Tooley said and look at the TR.
                x2
                Chas
                TiLite TR3
                Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
                I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

                "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
                <
                UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

                Comment


                  #9
                  okay - I hear you all loud and clear. I will consider changing the order from ZR to TR and I guess I would have to forgo the beautiful curved lower bar for the straight lower bar in order to have the full 6 " of COG adjustment.
                  Good to hear from you too Pat Madsen about your new TR.

                  Thanks, guys.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Assuming I recall correctly, the adjustment range you lose with the curved version of the TR is at the conservative end, so if you went that way you'd merely be gambling that you'll want a COG at or above (I think) 1.5".

                    Are you going to have this chair built with the possibility of foot-propelling in mind? There is a DU for separate flip-up footrests for this purpose, they add a rigidiser bar under the seat to make up for the loss of the rigid structural footrest. (I actually just bought a second-hand TR for parts which has this mod.) If you're calling a moratorium on the foot-propelling to avoid injury, you still need to take into account how a rigid footrest might affect your transfers, since you're not used to having one.

                    Because your proposed chair is so narrow, you wouldn't have too much extra trouble with doorways and shop aisles if you added a bit of camber. This would tend to counteract the potential sideways instability of having a chair significantly longer than it is wide. Something to think about.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      3.5" Cog is the magic number:
                      Click image for larger version

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                      Chas
                      TiLite TR3
                      Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
                      I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

                      "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
                      <
                      UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Ah, okay. Well, THAT puts a different complexion on it! My mistake.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I'm being fitted for a TR3 in eight days (but who's counting), so I'm pretty familiar with the order form right now
                          Chas
                          TiLite TR3
                          Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
                          I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

                          "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
                          <
                          UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by QTiPi View Post
                            If you're calling a moratorium on the foot-propelling to avoid injury, you still need to take into account how a rigid footrest might affect your transfers, since you're not used to having one.
                            yes -I like your choice of words- I will be calling a moratorium on the foot propelling.
                            You are also right that I don't really know how different transfers will be with a rigid footrest in place. I wondered if a 90 degree front angle would make transfers to standing easier than 85 degree that I have been advised to get. My full time w/c friend said he used to get 90 degree "back in the day"- but after a few forward falls and an occasional femur fracture, he moved his casters forward and went with an 85 degree.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              chas's flip back foot plate will definitely aid in standing up. I have a standard footplate on my chair and it does make standing more difficult. However with flip back footplates you have to take other things into consideration, like it won't work with a freewheel.
                              Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

                              I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

                              Comment

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