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Is a ZRA worth the additional out of pocket cost over a AeroZ?

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    #16
    Originally posted by chasmengr View Post
    Yep, they're really pricey. They're bicycle brakes with custom mods & hardware to work on wheelchairs: invented and manufactured by a WC user.

    Here's a CCC post with pics.
    They're still REALLY expensive. Here's the bike version w/o the ADI mods:

    http://www.jensonusa.com/!uC3i2Sjl1l...cal-Disc-Brake

    Comment


      #17
      SF air/rain/fog should not cause the dissimilar metal galvanic action that aluminum is subject to unless you got caught in salt spray. Deicing chemicals that splash off tires can start the process and even rust steel axles.

      If I went with hub locks, I'd go with D's. I don't want to add the tiny bit of width to my chair though. I meet the D's owner at Expo and chatted with him for quite some time. He appears to be very approachable and friendly. It looks like an excellent product that I have not used.

      But when locking the hub instead of the tire, the chair will move a little. People say it is the spokes flexing, and that is why I said if you up your spoke count it should reduce the flex. LX's have a better appearance than Spox so that is where they get you. You have to pay extra for a black hub with a Spox.

      You have not mentioned color. The motivation I would have for titanium is it's indestructible natural finish. I said that wrong. It can be brought back to new condition without too much effort whereas aluminum has to be repainted. I have first hand experience bringing a basket case A4 titanium back to near new condition. Incidentally, that A4 is not a light chair. The fittings and brackets are steel.

      I don't know why Chas suggested a solid backrest since you did not mention any discomfort or stability issue. Mine is cloth.

      Do you even need side guards? I used to be on a quest for cheap used side guards for my Q2 folder but gave up. My pants have only gotten wet from the wheels a few times. Maybe side guards would be useful for my gardening chair, hadn't thought about that before now. So the point is though do your legs rub up against your wheels? If so, you need a sturdy guard. The one I like is on my Crossfire, but I never use it and cannot find how to order it. It has two attachment points on each rail and folds back to the backrest when collapsed.
      Last edited by nonoise; 24 Jan 2015, 8:20 PM.
      I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by rlmtrhmiles View Post
        My vendor does whatever work required to breakout the upgrades I must pay for because insurance will not cover.
        Yeah, my vendor/dealer was actually the one who mentioned to me that breaking out titanium as an optional upgrade I could pay for myself was possible. I totally thought it was a whole chair or nothing deal at first.

        Originally posted by elarson View Post
        Sometimes you can get insurance to pickup the extra cost for titanium if you have medical justification.
        Yeah, I was trying to justify titanium to insurance by arguing I needed a lighter chair to get around SF hills + car transfers, but I guess that wasn't good enough :/

        Originally posted by elarson View Post
        We did not want what was needed with the Camber Tube Modify or the Spline Drive Insert to the Spinergy LX's... My husband needed one hand ability to lock and did not really need the disc braking capability. We live in flat Holland, so I am assuming that hilly SF is your reason behind that choice.
        Oh, I didn't realize the ADI brakes required modification of the camber tube. That's even more of a downsell then, because if I ever replaced the camber tube, I'd have to have them modify it again wouldn't I? And actually, I really only wanted the locking ability: braking doesn't really matter as much to me, since I tend to go down hills at almost full speed, and just slow down manually (I wear thick gloves). But, all that said, it sounds like I should just stick with the Surelocks or D's instead. It'll be rather silly if insurance will cover the ADIs but not the two cheaper options...

        Originally posted by elarson View Post
        It's much cheaper than ordering them from a dealer and through TiLite (in the US you can save about 30% buying them online, and in our case we saved about 50%)... There is a rather long thread about it here if you are interested Replacing TiLite Shadow wheels with Spinergy LX's. My husband likes the Surge LT's but they are getting pretty beat up in 1.5 years, and possibly we would consider titanium for the next set.
        For some reason the thought of buying the uncovered parts of my own didn't even occur to me. I just looked up the cost of buying the LXs, MPEs, and Surge LT on Sportaid, and it'll save me almost a whopping $500. I'm guessing those are the only things I can acquire elsewhere right? The other upgrades all seem specific to Tilite and the frame.

        Thanks for that thread as well though, because now I know I need to let Tilite know I'll still be using Spinergy wheels so they can build the chair for those specifically. Having backup parts IS awfully tempting though, but at 30%, that's still probably a couple hundred extra.

        Also, why'd you guys go with the Surge LT over the regular Surge? I just looked again and realized the LT ones are a little shorter in vertical height, but I'm wondering if my hands (which are fairly large) would actually be better suited to the regular Surges instead.

        Originally posted by elarson View Post
        We do not have titanium forks stems. I had not even realized it was an option and just went to look at it (see this link in the parts store for titanium CP104372 and this for aluminium CP104292). I'm not quite sure why Chasemgr says they are "a must on a titanium frame", because you can't even see them. However, it may help with corrosion from saltwater (salty air), and they may be stronger.
        I suspect corrosion as well - if you look at the stems on my Revolution right now, they're a lovely shade of rust red right now, so...

        Originally posted by elarson View Post
        I hope I did not go on for too long.
        Not at all, that was a lot of really useful info, thank you!

        Originally posted by Darkrider View Post
        (i only use CF on my side guards) but i would not use CF as a material on a camber tube just like chasmengr said it CF doesn't like rubbing or impact.
        Originally posted by nonoise View Post
        Do you even need side guards?
        My legs don't touch the wheels: the side guards are almost solely for the purpose of keeping my clothes from getting dirty. Without them, I find that my pants and shirts rub against the wheels and pick up dirt/mud/grime streaks on them (I only have about an inch or two of space between my hips and the edge of my cushion). They serve a nice secondary purpose in that they do kind of hold stuff I place up against them sometimes, like a phone or water bottle...

        I'm too lazy to take a photo of this right now, but my concern with side guard durability is because the current plastic guards I have on my Revolution (and the Quickie I had before) have all snapped and cracked around the metal stems, and also have been worn down where they've rubbed against the wheels. This happened because the metal brackets weren't tight enough to completely immobilize them, so I'd have to manually readjust them from time to time (which also led to the aforementioned cracking). So, that said, it doesn't seem like CF is a good option here, given it's fragility, right?

        Originally posted by nonoise View Post
        If I went with hub locks, I'd go with D's. I don't want to add the tiny bit of width to my chair though.
        I just read in another thread that the Surelocks don't add any width to the chair either, but is that not the case?

        Also, in looking up the SPOX wheels instead, I realized that both the SPOX and LXs all have a standard and sport hub version. What's the difference?

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
          Yeah, I was trying to justify titanium to insurance by arguing I needed a lighter chair to get around SF hills + car transfers, but I guess that wasn't good enough :/
          From my limited knowledge of insurance and Medicaid in the US, coverage is only based on justification for what is done in the home, e.g., not in the community or around the home.
          Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

          Comment


            #20
            Am i reading this right they won't cover the basic parts it takes to actually make the chair? Ie wheels forks rigidizer bar backrest and such
            T6 Incomplete due to a Spinal cord infarction July 2009

            Comment


              #21
              From your list, the only things I can see that you can acquire elsewhere are indeed the LXs, MPEs, and Surge LT.

              Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
              For some reason the thought of buying the uncovered parts of my own didn't even occur to me. I just looked up the cost of buying the LXs, MPEs, and Surge LT on Sportaid, and it'll save me almost a whopping $500. I'm guessing those are the only things I can acquire elsewhere right? The other upgrades all seem specific to Tilite and the frame.
              [Note: this was edited for a correction about titanium axles]I would really encourage you to get all of the standard and no charge options that you can with the chair if you are going to purchase separately the uncovered parts. You won't pay any extra for that and you will have backups should you ever need them. In your case this would be the the TiLite Shadow wheels, tires, and possibly the titanium or stainless steel quick release axles. The Sportaid axles are their own third-party product. We purchased the Sportaid stainless steel quick release axles and they are interchangeable with the axles we got for the TiLite Shadow wheels. We find the quality to be good and the only real difference is the logo on the button.

              In my experience, neither dealers or TiLite are all that helpful when configuring a chair for aftermarket products like the Spinergy wheels, as they won't be making any money from it. Still, I would note what you plan to do on the order form. When they send you a CAD drawing to approve (definitely require this), it will be based on the products from the order form. Make sure you double check that it will work based on what you plan to buy separately, for example, even a different tire profile can affect you rear seat height and your rear wheel spacing. This is the Aero Z order form.

              Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
              Thanks for that thread as well though, because now I know I need to let Tilite know I'll still be using Spinergy wheels so they can build the chair for those specifically. Having backup parts IS awfully tempting though, but at 30%, that's still probably a couple hundred extra.
              My husband has very good dextirity on his non-affected side (he has hemipresis -- one sided paralysis). We were going for the narrowest chair width as possible, and he did not feel he needed the regular Surge rim, even though he has large hands. I think I remember many here doing the same, and you might want to search on that.

              Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
              Also, why'd you guys go with the Surge LT over the regular Surge? I just looked again and realized the LT ones are a little shorter in vertical height, but I'm wondering if my hands (which are fairly large) would actually be better suited to the regular Surges instead.
              I think what others were mentioning about CF was more in relation to the camber tube than to the side gauards. We have only had aluminium side guards in the past, but really like the ADI CF side guards for the light weight. They are very durable and have shown no signs of scratches, cracks, etc. in 1.5 years.

              Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
              I'm too lazy to take a photo of this right now, but my concern with side guard durability is because the current plastic guards I have on my Revolution (and the Quickie I had before) have all snapped and cracked around the metal stems, and also have been worn down where they've rubbed against the wheels. This happened because the metal brackets weren't tight enough to completely immobilize them, so I'd have to manually readjust them from time to time (which also led to the aforementioned cracking). So, that said, it doesn't seem like CF is a good option here, given it's fragility, right?
              Just to be clear, we have D's Locks and they add ZERO width to the chair. I can't speak for Surelocks. I'd highly recommend the D's Locks. They are a bit cheaper than SureLocks, and they are a pleasant company to work with. The biggest difference between the two are that SureLocks have a few more holes. We have not found the amount of holes to be an issue for engaging the locks.

              Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
              I just read in another thread that the Surelocks don't add any width to the chair either, but is that not the case?
              To my knowledge, TiLite uses the "Everyday - Standard" Narrow Hub with 1.8" bearing spacing. The "Sport" wide hub has 2.3" bearing spacing. This will affect your chair width and is import to know especially if you swap out wheels. I think most of this information is in the thread I sent, but it is also on our website that combines much of that information Rear Wheels / Axles / Tires / Handrims. Here is a copy of the photo's so you can see the difference:





              Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
              Also, in looking up the SPOX wheels instead, I realized that both the SPOX and LXs all have a standard and sport hub version. What's the difference?
              Last edited by elarson; 27 Jan 2015, 10:02 AM.
              Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by elarson View Post
                ...Just to be clear, we have D's Locks and they add ZERO width to the chair....
                "Adds no width to most wheelchairs" http://www.teamhoc.com/dslocks/benefits

                I don't have room for the disks on my 3D Quickie, and if I widen it I won't be able to get through the bathroom door at my sons house, lol.
                I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

                Comment


                  #23
                  I should have clarified that. As long as there is room on the camber tube of a Aero Z / ZRA, it does not add width to the chair. On my husband's it's a bit of a tight squeeze with having the D's Locks with anti-tips and needing to attach the ZX-1 power add-on with a 16" chair. Lots of stuff competing for limited space.

                  Originally posted by nonoise View Post
                  "Adds no width to most wheelchairs" http://www.teamhoc.com/dslocks/benefits

                  I don't have room for the disks on my 3D Quickie, and if I widen it I won't be able to get through the bathroom door at my sons house, lol.
                  Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Two general questions:

                    1) Do TiLites come with a horizontal rigidizer bar on the back rest by default, or is that what the 4" deep option on the order forms is for? If I don't select that, does it mean I simply don't have a bar on the back? On my current chair, that's one of the main hold points for people when they lift my chair up/down steps, so it's a pretty important piece. (Although, looking at the owner's manual for the AeroZ, it seems they actually warn against holding on to detachable parts when lifting - and the backrest IS detachable, is it not?)

                    2) If I get the MPEs, is it still a good idea to get the Tuffy liners that SA has an a $10 add-on option, or are the MPEs already good enough on their own?

                    Originally posted by elarson View Post
                    From my limited knowledge of insurance and Medicaid in the US, coverage is only based on justification for what is done in the home, e.g., not in the community or around the home.
                    Oh, well, that's just... silly. Because we should totally stay at home and be non-fully functional human beings. Insurance is so busted out here :/

                    Originally posted by Smashms View Post
                    Am i reading this right they won't cover the basic parts it takes to actually make the chair? Ie wheels forks rigidizer bar backrest and such
                    I imagine they'll cover the base versions of them - they're not covered here because all of those things are upgrades, in my case.

                    Originally posted by elarson View Post
                    I would really encourage you to get all of the standard and no charge options that you can with the chair if you are going to purchase separately the uncovered parts. You won't pay any extra for that and you will have backups should you ever need them. In your case this would be the the TiLite Shadow wheels, tires, and possibly the stainless steel quick release axles if you decide not to go with titanium. I know that from Sportaid you can only purchase stainless steel quick release axles (the axles are their own third-party product). We purchased them and they are interchangeable with the axles we got for the TiLite Shadow wheels.
                    That's actually a great idea, and I think that's what I'll go ahead and do, taking after you and your hubby's approach Has there been a general consensus about the TiLite titanium axles versus the generic Sportaid one on the CC community? I know that video you linked me to previously seemed to suggest the SA ones weren't really quality controlled very well, which makes me a little wary.

                    Also, if I do indeed get CF guards separately from ADI or elsewhere, would you recommend I do it through my dealer, or direct with the manufacturer (price wise)? I'm guessing that if I don't specify a side guard option on the order form, they won't even put the mounting/holding bracket onto the chair (in which case, perhaps I should order a basic aluminum one and hope it's covered by insurance?).

                    Originally posted by elarson View Post
                    Make sure you double check that it will work based on what you plan to buy separately, for example, even a different tire profile can affect you rear seat height and your rear wheel spacing. This is the Aero Z order form.

                    To my knowledge, TiLite uses the "Everyday - Standard" Narrow Hub with 1.8" bearing spacing. The "Sport" wide hub has 2.3" bearing spacing. This will affect your chair width and is import to know especially if you swap out wheels.
                    I didn't actually pay attention the first time I read through the other thread, because it was a little over my head. Looking at the photos again now though, I think I understand what you mean about the different bearing spacings and all. So, from your blog post, I gather that if I order the default Shadows with 1" spacing, I should be able to replace them with the standard SPOX/LXs and MPEs without a hitch?

                    If I went with the sport ones though, I'm not too sure how spacing comes in to play: I understand chair width would increase, but is the spacing concern that there wouldn't actually be enough for the wheels/axles to lock in place? Also, what IS the advantage of a wider hub?
                    Last edited by faji_tama; 26 Jan 2015, 1:40 AM.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      I recently got surelocks, they did not affect my width at all.
                      Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

                      I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        You are getting another long missive from me...

                        Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                        1) Do TiLites come with a horizontal rigidizer bar on the back rest by default, or is that what the 4" deep option on the order forms is for? If I don't select that, does it mean I simply don't have a bar on the back? On my current chair, that's one of the main hold points for people when they lift my chair up/down steps, so it's a pretty important piece. (Although, looking at the owner's manual for the AeroZ, it seems they actually warn against holding on to detachable parts when lifting - and the backrest IS detachable, is it not?)
                        TiLites come with the standard horizontal rigidizer bar on the back rest by default. The other options are the 3” deep rigidizer bar or the rounded rigidizer bar (shown on page 10 of the Options Brochure). We got the 3” deep rigidizer bar, which is a no charge option (NCO), because we were getting an ADI solid back and wanted to make sure there was enough room for it with depth adjustments.

                        About the documentation, they never really say where they expect the assistant at the rear of the chair to hold onto. They only specifically state not the "upholstery and removable push handles or push handle grips". To me the only other logical place to hold onto IS the backrest rigidizer bar. Technically the backrest is a removable (detachable) part, and is how we do stairs also. I posted to the Manufacturer & Vendor Forum (see this post #120) because I would be interested in hearing what they say about this also.

                        Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                        Has there been a general consensus about the TiLite titanium axles versus the generic Sportaid one on the CC community? I know that video you linked me to previously seemed to suggest the SA ones weren't really quality controlled very well, which makes me a little wary.
                        I don't think the video was referring to SportAid axles, because to my knowledge they do not sell titanium axles, only stainless steel. I think the video was referring to Invacare/Top End titanium axles.

                        Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                        Also, if I do indeed get CF guards separately from ADI or elsewhere, would you recommend I do it through my dealer, or direct with the manufacturer (price wise)? I'm guessing that if I don't specify a side guard option on the order form, they won't even put the mounting/holding bracket onto the chair (in which case, perhaps I should order a basic aluminum one and hope it's covered by insurance?).
                        It appears to me that insurance has already approved TiLite CF sideguards. I would ask your dealer about this so you can get whatever you do covered by insurance as much as possible. I'm actually kind of surprised that insurance even approved CF sideguards. For removable sideguards ADI only sells Replacement Stock Sideguards and the hardware for the chair is NOT included (click on one of the photo's). I'm quite sure that TiLite will not include the mounting bracket if you do not order sideguards, so you will be paying $175 just for the aluminum sideguards when all you want is the mounting bracket. I also don't know if you can customize the ADI removable sideguards. Possibly Carbolife sells sideguards with the mounting hardware, but I don't know.

                        If it were me, if the dealer can't get you other CF sideguards with mounting hardware, I would get the TiLite CF, because I don't think the differences would be enough for me to want to fork out the entire cost relative to a 30% co-pay. I know that when we bought the ADI folding CF sideguards 1.5 years ago the MSRP was about $400, which is probably about what the dealer would charge, along with the cost of the mounting hardware. You could also try contacting Bike-on (stephen212 is an active and knowledgeable member here who works for them) or SportAid, because they don't list all the sidequard options on their websites.

                        Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                        I didn't actually pay attention the first time I read through the other thread, because it was a little over my head. Looking at the photos again now though, I think I understand what you mean about the different bearing spacings and all. So, from your blog post, I gather that if I order the default Shadows with 1" spacing, I should be able to replace them with the standard SPOX/LXs and MPEs without a hitch?
                        I can understand your confusion. That’s where I was when I started this also. I would be reluctant to 100% say that everything will work for you as it did for us, but assuming 24" wheels, I do not see why it would not. For wheel spacing the hub bearing spacing was .2" less with the Spinergy LX 24” wheels than with the TiLite Shadow 24" wheels. For the 24” Primo Treaded Tires replaced with 24” Schwalbe MPE tires we had no difference in tire profile and it did not affect rear seat height (RSH). The Primo tires are shown as RTR4 in the Options Brochure on page 3.

                        I do not know enough about the titanium quick release axles to know if they would be interchangeable or not (for us the stainless steel axles were interchangeable). You will probably need to tighten the axle nut when you swap out to the Spinergy hubs, because although the overall hubshell width of the Spinergy hubs are wider than the Shadow hubs, the bearing spacing is less on the Spinergy hubs than the Shadow hubs. The bearing spacing is what affects wheel spacing. I would go to the parts store and check the measurements for the Quick Release Axles that you might be swapping out. Make sure you click on the PDF because that shows the dimensions.

                        Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                        If I went with the sport ones though, I'm not too sure how spacing comes in to play: I understand chair width would increase, but is the spacing concern that there wouldn't actually be enough for the wheels/axles to lock in place? Also, what IS the advantage of a wider hub?
                        I can't tell you what the advantage is of the wider sport hubs, but I assume it is strength. I am quite sure you would have a hard time swapping the Shadow wheels with the wider sports hubs because the bearing spacing is wider with 2.3" bearing spacing. I also don’t think TiLite sells the Spinergy wheels with the wider sport hubs, and consequently a titanium axle for them. If you were to do this, you most likely will need to order axles for the wider sport hubs, which probably means stainless steel. I also do not think you can get D’s Locks for the sports hubs because the spokes are also fatter, but I could be wrong.

                        Something important to keep in mind with swapping wheels if you get the D's Locks (probably also SureLocks) is that the Lockrings and Adaptors for the Spinergy wheels are not swappable with Shadow wheels. When you dealer orders D's Locks you tell them what wheels and wheelchair they are for and they send the appropriate hardware. When we need to use the Shadow wheels I mount an extra set of tire wheel locks that we have, or if very temporary, my husband goes without locks. Someday I may get the extra Lockrings and Adaptors for the Shadow wheels, which we will be able to use with the same Locksets and Adaptors that are on the wheelchair. Something else to consider is that your dealer may not want to install hub locks if you buy the wheels somewhere else. They are also self-installable, but make sure your dealer orders them for the correct wheels.
                        Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

                        Comment


                          #27
                          About the documentation, they never really say where they expect the assistant at the rear of the chair to hold onto. They only specifically state not the "upholstery and removable push handles or push handle grips". To me the only other logical place to hold onto IS the backrest rigidizer bar. Technically the backrest is a removable (detachable) part, and is how we do stairs also. I posted to the Manufacturer & Vendor Forum (see this post #120) because I would be interested in hearing what they say about this also.

                          TiLite does not recommend holding onto the backrest. I'm attaching what is in our owner's manual. I hope this helps. It is important not to hold on to parts that are removable. Use the frame.
                          WARNINGS FOR SAFE USE OF YOUR WHEELCHAIR
                          A. LEARNING TO DO A “WHEELIE”
                          I WARNING
                          DO NOT attempt to perform a “wheelie” in your wheelchair because of the dangerous nature of this kind of maneuver.
                          TiLite recognizes that some wheelchair users will ignore this warning. If you should choose to ignore this warning,
                          you should follow these steps to help learn to do a “wheelie” as safely as possible (but doing a “wheelie” is never
                          completely safe and TiLite assumes no responsibility for any injury you may sustain as a result of doing a “wheelie”):
                          1. Read and follow the Warning for “WHEELIES” on page 1-9.
                          2. NEVER attempt to learn how to do a “wheelie” without the assistance of someone strong enough to catch you
                          should you start to tip over (a “spotter”). Your spotter should read and be completely familiar with this entire
                          Manual, especially this Warning and the Warning for “WHEELIES” on page 1-9.
                          3. Instruct your spotter to stand at the rear of your chair. Your spotter must be agile enough to move with you and
                          your chair to prevent a tip-over.
                          4. Instruct your spotter to keep his or her hands BENEATH the push handles or backrest rigidizer bar so that he or
                          she is ready to catch you if you exceed the balance point of the rear wheels and start to tip over backward.
                          5. When your spotter is in position and is ready, place your hands on the forward portion of the handrims. Using the
                          handrims, make a quick BACKWARD movement of the rear wheels, quickly followed by a hard FORWARD thrust.
                          This will tilt the chair up on the balance point of the rear wheels. DO NOT remove your hands from the handrims
                          after either the backward movement or forward thrust so that you can continue to manipulate the rear wheels to
                          maintain your balance on the two rear wheels.
                          6. Use SMALL movements of the handrims to maintain your balance on the two rear wheels.
                          If you ignore these Warnings, you may fall, tip over or lose control of the wheelchair and seriously injure yourself or
                          others or damage the wheelchair.TR/YR Owner’s Manual 1-5 OM0007_RevA_TR_YR
                          CHAPTER 1: WARNINGS
                          B. CLIMBING A CURB OR SINGLE STEP
                          I WARNING
                          1. NEVER attempt to negotiate a curb or single step without assistance.
                          2. Instruct your assistant to stand at the rear of your wheelchair, with the front of the wheelchair facing the obstacle.
                          NEVER attempt to negotiate any such obstacle backward.
                          3. Instruct your assistant to tilt the chair up on the rear wheels so that the front casters clear the curb or step.
                          4. Instruct your assistant to slowly move the chair forward and to gently lower the front casters to the upper level as
                          soon as you are sure that they are beyond the edge of the curb or step.
                          5. Instruct your assistant to continue to roll the chair forward until the rear wheels contact the face of the curb or
                          step.
                          6. Instruct your assistant to lift and roll the rear wheels up to the upper level.
                          If you ignore these Warnings, you may fall, tip over or lose control of the wheelchair and seriously injure yourself or
                          others or damage the wheelchair.
                          C. CLIMBING A FLIGHT OF STAIRS
                          I WARNING
                          DO NOT climb a flight of stairs with the user in the wheelchair.
                          However, TiLite recognizes that wheelchair users may, on occasion, have no other choice. Only if you have no
                          alternative, you should follow these steps to climb up a flight of stairs.
                          1. NEVER attempt to negotiate more than one step unless you have two (2) able-bodied adult assistants.
                          2. ALWAYS position the chair and rider facing away from the stairs, with one assistant at the rear (facing away from
                          the stairs) and one at the front of the chair (facing the rider).
                          3. The assistant at the rear of the chair is in control of this procedure. He or she must tilt the chair back to its balance
                          point on the rear wheels. NEVER attempt to lift a wheelchair by lifting on any removable (detachable) parts,
                          including upholstery and removable push handles or push handle grips.
                          4. The second assistant at the front must firmly grasp a non-detachable part of the front frame (but NOT swing-away
                          hangers) with both hands and lift the chair up and over one stair at a time.
                          5. Each assistant then carefully moves up to the next stair.
                          6. Repeat steps 1 through 5 for each stair, until you reach the landing.
                          7. When you reach the landing, the assistants should roll the chair backward on the two rear wheels until the front
                          casters have cleared the last step, at which point the assistants can gently lower the front casters to the landing.
                          If you ignore these Warnings, you may fall, tip over or lose control of the wheelchair and seriously injure yourself or
                          others or damage the wheelchair.
                          TiLite. The Ultimate Ride.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by elarson View Post
                            You are getting another long missive from me...
                            They are much appreciated

                            Originally posted by elarson View Post
                            TiLites come with the standard horizontal rigidizer bar on the back rest by default.
                            Any idea what the spacing is on the standard bars? I'm assuming it's much less than 3"?

                            Originally posted by elarson View Post
                            About the documentation, they never really say where they expect the assistant at the rear of the chair to hold onto.
                            Originally posted by TiLite View Post
                            It is important not to hold on to parts that are removable. Use the frame... 3. The assistant at the rear of the chair is in control of this procedure. He or she must tilt the chair back to its balance
                            point on the rear wheels. NEVER attempt to lift a wheelchair by lifting on any removable (detachable) parts,
                            including upholstery and removable push handles or push handle grips.
                            4. The second assistant at the front must firmly grasp a non-detachable part of the front frame (but NOT swing-away
                            hangers) with both hands and lift the chair up and over one stair at a time.
                            Yeah elarson, I was thinking the same thing, because I can't think of a single place towards the back that's actually part of the frame.

                            I also am having trouble imagining their recommended procedure for climbing stairs. Something like this, where most of the lifting is being done by the person on the lower step? That's not even possible without the person at the back of the chair lifting too, right?

                            Click image for larger version

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                            Not drawn to scale (I was never meant to be an artist haha).

                            Originally posted by elarson View Post
                            I don't think the video was referring to SportAid axles, because to my knowledge they do not sell titanium axles, only stainless steel. I think the video was referring to Invacare/Top End titanium axles.
                            Oops, you're right, it was indeed the Invacare ones. But aw bummer, I thought the SA ones were titanium - the page completely fails to mention the material type. So, if I want titanium, TiLite is still going to have to be where I get them huh. (I suspect the Invacare ones are probably the same price anyway?)

                            Originally posted by elarson View Post
                            It appears to me that insurance has already approved TiLite CF sideguards. I would ask your dealer about this so you can get whatever you do covered by insurance as much as possible. I'm actually kind of surprised that insurance even approved CF sideguards. For removable sideguards ADI only sells Replacement Stock Sideguards and the hardware for the chair is NOT included (click on one of the photo's). I'm quite sure that TiLite will not include the mounting bracket if you do not order sideguards, so you will be paying $175 just for the aluminum sideguards when all you want is the mounting bracket. I also don't know if you can customize the ADI removable sideguards. Possibly Carbolife sells sideguards with the mounting hardware, but I don't know.
                            Oh yeah huh they did. That fell off my radar because I wouldn't have thought they'd approve the CF guards either. But ah, so your husband actually has non-removeable guards then?

                            Originally posted by elarson View Post
                            I would be reluctant to 100% say that everything will work for you as it did for us, but assuming 24" wheels, I do not see why it would not. For wheel spacing the hub bearing spacing was .2" less with the Spinergy LX 24” wheels than with the TiLite Shadow 24" wheels. For the 24” Primo Treaded Tires replaced with 24” Schwalbe MPE tires we had no difference in tire profile and it did not affect rear seat height (RSH).
                            Ah, yeah, I'm actually planning to go with 25" wheels, and thinking of doing 25" Primo Treaded -> 25" MPE tires. I guess I'll have to dig a bit more in to that one.

                            Originally posted by elarson View Post
                            You will probably need to tighten the axle nut when you swap out to the Spinergy hubs, because although the overall hubshell width of the Spinergy hubs are wider than the Shadow hubs, the bearing spacing is less on the Spinergy hubs than the Shadow hubs. The bearing spacing is what affects wheel spacing.
                            I THINK I know what you mean by tightening the axle nut: it's the giant nut that's between the inner bearing, screwed on to the camber tube/plug right? And by tighten, do you mean closer to the camber tube, or closer to the bearing? And I'm guessing wheel spacing refers to the space between the bearing and the nut?

                            Originally posted by elarson View Post
                            the Lockrings and Adaptors for the Spinergy wheels are not swappable with Shadow wheels. When you dealer orders D's Locks you tell them what wheels and wheelchair they are for and they send the appropriate hardware.
                            And another thing I wasn't aware of. Thank you!

                            Comment


                              #29
                              This photo is of a used Colours chair I purchased which had hidden damage. Looking at the photo, you might ask how could that be hidden, but believe me the pieces were not separated, and I did not notice. I'm posting because this is what I suspect the type of damage the manufacture is trying to avoid by saying lift by the frame only. This chair had clamp on extension push handles, so that contributed additional torque to the bar. I think from this we should learn if we go against the manu recommendation to grab as close to the weld as possible to prevent any bending and don't use push handles.Click image for larger version

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                              I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Ouch, yeah, that'd be pretty brutal if it snapped off mid lift. I wonder how much weight was in the chair over the years to lead to that (I'm about 120lb or so, I think). I've been lifted I'd say, on average, 10-20 times a year in this chair for the past ten years, and the back bar is still holding steady. The part that DID end up cracking was actually at the end of my seat, right before the bend.

                                Ever since a friend dropped me (on accident) and ended up snapping my femur a few years ago, I've been wary about letting people me carry me outside my chair.

                                Comment

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