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ZX1 lithium ion battery retrofit

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  • #61
    You know what kills me is this; "The iGLIDE will retail for approximately $7,900, with a percentage of that cost expected to be covered by insurance." This is a reason to look at using the words "personal transporter" or the like. I'm glad that maddog finds his chair satisfying. But this one sentence from a wheelers support magazine infuriates me. Of course I have no shoulder power just pain, at all so that iGlide is out anyway.

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    • #62
      Nonoise, the kit comes with everything you need to connect everything together and comes with good directions. You can order the battery already put together and I think they will align the batteries in a custom configuration if you ask them. I don't remember them offering the pre-assembled batteries when I ordered, I will go that route if I ever need to do it again.

      Bob, have you looked at the Calb batteries, looks like a good deal. 60ah batteries at 24v for $700 is a good price. Are you upping your ah's and or volts or are you wanting to stay the same as what you have now? http://headway-headquarters.com/lithium-lifepo4-cells/ These would keep you from going parallel and simplify things greatly if are wanting to stay around 60ah. They also have 100ah batteries but that would bump your cost up a lot.

      Question about charging in parallel. The BMS I have stays attached to the battery and charges each cell individually to 3.2 volts. My nimh iglide battery has two 20 sub c batteries in series, they are combined at the ends in parallel and charged with a 24v charger. In a parallel Lifepo4 system would you cross connect at every cell and use the same BMS to charge 2 or more parallel cells at a time or would that not truly balance the 2 cells? Would you need one BMS for every parallel leg to truly charge each cell?

      I looked at the charger you mentioned and I need a simple plug and play unit because my help would never be able to use it. Also the ability to download data is nice but not something I would do on a regular basis, the whole charger is overkill for my needs.

      For a quad like me that wants to be in a manual chair but is not strong enough it is a great chair. I think everyone loves the chair while pushing, but for people who transfer it into a car it is just too heavy. I drive from my chair and never transfer out during the day so weight is not an issue.

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      • #63
        Those Headway 40’s, 40152, are big cells. The battery pack I just bought has 21 19’s 19650 cells. 40mm and 19mm being the diameter of the cell. As such my 19 mm cells make up a 7S3P battery. That means (you probably know this), three Parallel sets of seven series strings of cells. The included internal BMS worries about proper balancing.
        I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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        • #64
          I was going to use the smaller cells but I have had problems with cells failing in my 40 cell nimh packs (20s2p) and its impossible to find the bad cell without totally taking it apart. I decided 8 larger cells would be simple and I can easily check and replace any cell if there ever was a problem.

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          • #65
            I wish we'd spoken earlier. The bonus of swapping out a bad cell and being able to make the pack fit the available space are big pluses. However right now I am dead in the water without a thumb throttle that works for the 24 volt system I am playing with.
            I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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            • #66
              I know I have seen thumb throttes in my internet wanderings, I will try to find some of them.

              sincerely BS

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              • #67
                Nonoise, what are you putting this battery and thumb throttle on?

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                • #68
                  It's for my personal transportation device. I'll try to post pictures. You will recognize where the idea came from.
                  Click image for larger version

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                  This is the working 36 volt version. It has an on off switch, a thumb throttle, and a hands free cruise control.
                  I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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                  • #69
                    Nice work, why did you switch to 24v? Too much speed?

                    Are the thumb throttle and cruise two separate systems, meaning do you have to get to a certain speed with the thumb throttle and then set the cruise or do you press the + button from a standstill until you reach your desired speed? Is the thumb throttle just for short burst when you don't want to set the cruise? Have you thought about maybe a slide throttle similar to a dimmer switch that would stay at a certain speed and not spring back and would be easy to quickly change speed or stop? Or maybe a dial like on a fan.

                    I really like what you have done here. A system like this would work better for me than the marketed system because you tell it to go vs sensing to go. If I am stuck in the grass and can't move a system like yours could be told to help. Otherwise I am just struggling and not moving and not getting any help.

                    I am an engineer and grew up on a farm and was always building things growing up. I love to see things like this from people. One of my former attendants couldn't understand why I was always tinkering with my things and why I didn't just buy new. She could not understand that new is expensive and not always better, of course she also tried to model her life after the "Real Housewives".

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                    • #70
                      Maddog, I want to see if I have better control at startup with 24 volts. You know how quick electric motors are out of the starting gate, I’m hoping 24 volt will give a slower acceleration. I broke the unit you see in the picture and had to rebuild it. I had just opened the garage door to go inside after tooling around the neighborhood. Our driveway is on an upward incline. I immediately got flipped over backwards, bumped my head even. It was quick, had a dickens of a time recovering and getting my act back together. So I decided 24 volts might be a little kinder. But I am probably through *that * learning curve now, so I may be good to go if this other system won‘t come together.

                      The throttle and cruise share the same wires into the controller. However the cruise cannot start the motor. The way it works is that one uses the throttle to start and run and then you tap cruise if so desired. Cruise will then maintain that speed handsfree. And it will adjust speed depending if +/- are pressed. To stop all one has to do is tap the cruise word, or tap the throttle, or flip the ignition off.

                      I like your idea of a slide throttle, but I have not the skills to make one. I don’t know how this stuff works. I took one of the throttles apart. All that was in there was a return spring and a couple of fixed magnets.

                      I haven’t tried it, but these little rollers I have probably would not be so good in the grass. They are the best I could find. For your purposes in the yard, you could simplify this and leave out the added omni wheel discs. Instead figure out a way to put a balloon tire directly on a hub motor. Steering might be a problem on concrete, but on slippery surfaces, it should work.

                      I chuckled your not buying new stuff. I totally understand why.
                      Last edited by nonoise; 11-05-2014, 07:15 PM.
                      I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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                      • #71
                        Ok, so what you have came packaged together, throttlle and cruise. You should be able to buy a speed controller between your battery and motor. What is your motors wattage? Is there a fuse between your battery and throttle? You need a speed controller that matches or exceeds the fuse amps.

                        I would think something like this would work. It will match any input voltage up to 50v so you can try it with your 24v or 36v battery and see how they work. http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-50V-40A-D...item565f16a383

                        Does your motor have a ebrake on it, if so the above may not work? I don't think it does if you still push without power.

                        I have not used anything like this before and I hope someone will chime in if this won't work. I don't know how sensitive the dial would be but its cheap and simple to install so it might be worth a try. You just connect the + and - from the battery and the two wires from the motor to the controller and you are done. You may want to add an on off switch to shut it down and know that something brushing against the dial won't send you flying off.

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                        • #72
                          Nothing came packaged together. Everything here was assembled dim, do it myself. The throttle came from ElectricScoolterParts, the cruise control came from Lyen, and the ignition switch is from Radio Shack. I mounted them all on the hand extension from my Quickie Shadow modified BB chair as that is the chair I want this system to eventually be on.

                          Some people add a fuse to avoid the spark when connecting the battery to prevent corrosion of the terminals. Anderson terminals are an alternative since they hold up well. Other than that I have no fuse that I can find, I had hoped to find one in the controller.

                          The way this works is that the controller delivers only +5 volts to the throttle for regulating speed. The throttle output is then 1-4 volts. It seems like it should be listed as 0-4, I’m just typing what I see, but 4 is always listed as the max. That 1 to +4 then goes back to the controller which delivers the juice to the motor.

                          Your find might work, but it looks like it might deliver a volt too much. That seems trivial, but maybe not.
                          The other thing as you say is control, the knob might be difficult to operate and shut off. But this is a step in the right direction of better quality. I’m also trying to trouble shoot what is going wrong with what I do have.

                          edited to add answers:
                          It's only a 24 volt 250 watt 185Rev motor.
                          This one is geared and has no hall sensors, so even though the controller has a e-brake functionality, so for those two reasons I don't think it would activate anything.
                          Last edited by nonoise; 11-06-2014, 12:51 AM.
                          I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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                          • #73
                            NoNoise,

                            You mention a controller in your dialogue that controller MUST have a program in it. The surge start has to be programmed into it. I think you are trying to circumvent the controller rather finding how to change the program that is installed in this gadget. But hey what do "I" know ? I'm just a dumbass.

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                            • #74
                              Nonoise, this would replace everything you have except your motor and battery. The speed controller would deliver 0 to 24v to your motor on a 24v system, it will not send this voltage to your existing controller. You should also be able to switch between 24v and 36v without changing anything but your battery if you get a speed controller that goes up to 36v.
                              Here is a video explaining how you would hook it up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK809CPa9NI

                              It may not work any better than what you have but it is cheap and easy to try.

                              Bob, I get what you are saying about how his controller is programmed but how would you change it. That sort of stuff is over my head and it would seem that the type of controller he has would not be programmable. I agree that dropping to 24v with what he has now will help a little but it will still want to surge at the start, maybe just a little less. Seems like what he has starts at maybe something like 12v and then increases to 36v as throttle is pressed. That initial hit is causing the problem, its not a smooth linear increase to 36 volts. Again I don't know enough about it and don't have a clue as to how to reprogram it. To me a pwm speed controller that is different from what he has might work better, may have a softer smoother start. He may also want to check his throttle output to make sure it starts at 1v. If the throttle is damaged and not reading the beginning of the stroke it may start at a value higher than 1v causing a fast start.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Bob Sullivan View Post
                                NoNoise,

                                You mention a controller in your dialogue that controller MUST have a program in it. The surge start has to be programmed into it. I think you are trying to circumvent the controller rather finding how to change the program that is installed in this gadget.....
                                Actually you are close. I do have a program and a special usb cable connection for modifying the controller settings. However full instructions are seriously lacking and I am a big time chicken to tinker with it when there is a person marketing an add on board called a throttle tamer for the exact purpose I seek. His is for high speed bikes and only works with sensor motors which mine is not. But it indicates to me taming is not available within the controller.
                                I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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