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    #16
    Originally posted by JeffAdams View Post
    I'm pretty excited about these - my hands are so beat up from 20+ years of beating on racing chair wheels, that these could be a really great option for me.
    I can understand that. I am just afraid that what paras will like, quads won't like as much and vice versa. For example, I am pretty sure that paras would prefer if the underside was not too grippy so that it won't burn going fast downhills, but a quad like me would prefer grippy for better control going down (not too fast ). We will see, I guess I will only hear from him tomorrow morning since it's already past midnight there.
    Pharmacist, C4-5 injury but functional C6 (no triceps/flexors)

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      #17
      Jeff, I just saw on their website that they will be teaming with MBL Poland and share a booth:

      http://www.rehacare.com/cipp/md_reha...prod_datasheet

      Here is a pic of their collaborative wheel (not a good pic but ...):

      Pharmacist, C4-5 injury but functional C6 (no triceps/flexors)

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        #18
        Thanks for the tip - MBL was one of my planned stops.

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          #19
          PM sent to you Jeff.
          Pharmacist, C4-5 injury but functional C6 (no triceps/flexors)

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            #20
            Another thing that I seem to gather from their website is that the "pushing surface" seems to be made from what is being used for windsurf wishbones grip or similar, and it should still offer good grip in WET conditions. THAT would really be a winner for me. I am like an idiot when trying to climb a hill when the hand rims are wet, I injured my shoulder a few times this way.
            Pharmacist, C4-5 injury but functional C6 (no triceps/flexors)

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              #21
              So I went and looked at the Bbraver rings, and to be honest, I'm not sure if they made things all that much more grippy - they're better than a bare pushring, but I didn't get a ton more "purchase" from them. They are doing a really neat thing with the way they capture the push surface in a channel, so you can replace them when they wear out, and it will be possible for them to put different materials into/onto the same pushring.

              They felt kind of dry and somehow "dusty" to me - having said that, the reason I'm looking for grippy rings is partly because of damage I've done to my hands from racing, but also because I have really dry skin on my hands too, so it might be just me.

              The shape of the ring wasn't ideal - on the bottom, it has an arch (probably from the roller that they're using to bend the extrusion), but it causes two ridges - the outside one contacted the first knuckle on my middle finger, and was a touch-point that wasn't comfortable. The shape is really good for braking, but not so good for propelling.

              If they can retool to remove the bottom channel and have it be a smooth, round shape, I think it would be an improvement - for anyone who doesn't wrap their fingers around the pushring to propel, it would be a non-issue. The pushrings were designed primarily for people with low to no grip strength, so I think my criticism might be a bit off-target in terms of the purpose behind the design.

              The same context applies to my comment on how grippy they are - he designed them and uses them, and they work for him - if they didn't, he would have found something else that did, so they work, they just don't really work for me.

              I also looked at the Carbolife pushrings - they have a "tetra" compound and a "para" compound - the tetra is much stickier, and the para is a lot harder and less "sticky". The shape is more of a scalene or slightly obtuse triangle kind of shape (with rounded corners), and they have two sizes.

              They told me that they dip the rings to get the coating, and the tetra version felt exactly like Q-rings to me.

              I was feeling a bit like Goldylocks at that point, but then I tried the large size, para version of the Carbolife pushrings, and they were juuuuuust right (for me).

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                #22
                Thank you Jeff for the review. I wonder what the weight difference is between the Bbraver handrim and a standard coated handrim.

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                  #23
                  The wheels didn't feel any heavier - they're using an extrusion to get the shape, so I would think the weight difference (if any) would be minimal.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by JeffAdams View Post
                    So I went and looked at the Bbraver rings [....]
                    They felt kind of dry and somehow "dusty" to me - [....]
                    I was feeling a bit like Goldylocks at that point, [.....]
                    This. As I'm sure you are fully aware, what with designing and producing fully adjustable wheelchairs, it's funny how everyone has such different preferences. OT/PT's have a very challenging job. I'm often puzzled, being around a lot of quads, on why they do the things they do, how they go about it and what works for one gimp doesn't remotely resemble what another with seemingly-similar function prefers.

                    Re: your "dusty" comment: I have decent dexterity but not great grip strength, I currently push BLAX. Usually once a day I try to wash them down with a soapy rag. Cleaning the dust off (we are in a serious drought here in the prairies) makes such a huge difference in their grippiness.

                    Thanks for the reviews though. Did you enquire about Carbolife's distribution network/vendor in North America? Also curious if "they were juuuuuust right" enough to warrant purchasing?


                    On another front, but slightly related:
                    For rugby I am trying to get away from using so much "stick-um". The supplier upcharge is ridiculous. Plus some facilities ban it from tournaments. I am looking for other options.

                    What type of klister do racers use? An actual trade name would help, I'm clueless.

                    On a whim I purchased regular old pine tar from a farm supply store. It was cheap so I TOFFT. For anyone wondering if it could be used as any type of "grip enhancer" the answer is NO. Even for wheelchair rugby where we wear gloves and are used to (somewhat enjoy) everything sticking to everything true pine tar is horrible. Extremely runny and smells like horse butt. If anyone is actually reading this - has anyone tried "Stockholm pine tar"? supposedly has a thicker consistency.

                    I'm looking at this stuff, for baseball bats -
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                    maybe? Anyone tried it?

                    btw, in case anyone cares - coated handrims don't stand up to the abuse of rugby, all the chair on chair contact just tears the coating off. For a sport like wheelchair rugby it's not just about gripping the wheels better, it's also about ball-handling.
                    Click image for larger version

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                      #25
                      http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...der+tack%2Caps

                      Might want to give Spider Tack a try.

                      http://www.spidertack.com/

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                        #26
                        Thanks, JeffAdams for this review! Been looking forward to it. Not sure they'll work for me either. I use my whole thumb and base of thumb/palm and wrap my fingers loosely around short tab coated rims. (Probably wouldn't like the ridges.) I like my thumb area to sit against the wheel and not slide through that space. Actually, the vinyl coated rims are perfect; they just don't hold up. Are the Q Grips the same as vinyl only more durable? I've also wondered about the Surge LT but not sure about the shape. Wish we could try this stuff!

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Lynne View Post
                          ... Are the Q Grips the same as vinyl only more durable? I've also wondered about the Surge LT but not sure about the shape....
                          I read that the Q-Grips are neoprene, which is different than vinyl.
                          I was outside today using my Magicwheels and realized that I am not so impressed with Surge LT handrims that I bought new with the wheels. The cushion strip is quite narrow, and it doesn’t seem to offer much advantage to the metal rim. I mean really, shouldn’t it be either sticky or soft? Yeah I can feel it is softer, but the best part is that it’s not cold like the rim is. Too bad there’s so little of it. I’d just as soon use one of the other full wrap products. BTW the shape is the same as Natural fit LT without the thumb rim. I do like the shape and would transfer it to another set of wheels, but Magicwheels uses post rims.
                          I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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                            #28
                            Thanks, nonoise, for the response. I'm thinking I may go with the Q Grips, or maybe just repeat with vinyl knowing I'll have to replace often. Your comments about the Surge LT helped. I'd wondered if the area of grip was sufficient. Sounds as if probably not. I like the short tabs. Too bad one has to pay extra, but I don't like the "extra" tab piece lapped over.

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                              #29
                              @Tooley - I think they're good enough to buy, although having said that, they're still getting back to me on pricing for North America - I think they'll be a bit pricey, given that they're manufactured in Germany, but we've agreed with CarboLife to bring them in.

                              I used to use a couple different kinds of klister - Mueller for cold and Harpiks for warm weather.

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                                #30
                                I use natural fit LT with "super grip" thumb rings, it's probably similar to vinyl dip on the thumb ring. I'm personally interested in trying out surge LT with the natural fit super grip rim, but worried about making braking even harder.

                                I wonder how you might like that combination as well Lynne from how you described your grip, but since you're used to short tabs you might not like it.
                                Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

                                I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

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