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Icon Wheelchairs - wider front wing - feedback request

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  • Icon Wheelchairs - wider front wing - feedback request

    We've designed a wider wing for the Icon A1 - the current front wing is 11.5" (10.5" inside to inside). We're trying to decide how wide to make the new part, and I'm looking for feedback.

    We're making samples in 13.5", 14.5" and 15.5" - does anyone think there is a need to go even bigger than that?

    I tried to post the CAD drawing of it, but I've been unable to attach pictures for awhile now - if anyone has a secret way to do that, please PM me.

    ICON_Front_Wing.pdf
    Last edited by t8burst; 09-08-2014, 09:16 AM.

  • #2
    My Quickie Revolution that I use most is 14.5

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    • #3
      I am assuming from the drawings that with 14.5″ between the middle of the front frames that would make it about 13.5″ between the front frames, and if flip-up footplates were added it would be about 12.5″ in total between the front frames. This is the same as his 16″ wide ZRA chair. Having it 1" wider would be helpful, but is not critical.

      [Added] P.S. I am also seeing that retrofitting individual flip-up footplates, assuming the hardware would work, might be a possibility with a 14.5" wing.
      Last edited by elarson; 09-08-2014, 12:08 PM.
      Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

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      • #4
        Use IMG tags, like this: (minus the first quotation mark)

        "[IMG] paste URL here [/IMG]

        That seems huge, to me! My US size 9.5-10 shoes fit perfectly between a 9.5-10" footrest. I suspect anyone with a big enough foot and calves to need 14" wide footrest would also need one much deeper than the current 7", though. How about adding depth, too? Moving the crossbar back a bit...
        "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

        "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

        "Even what those with the greatest reputation for knowing it all claim to understand and defend are but opinions..." -Heraclitus, Fragments

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        • #5
          I'll pass the depth comment on to engineering - how much deeper?

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          • #6
            Maybe I missed something in the drawings, but can you say how far back the depth of the tube is in the drawings?

            Originally posted by JeffAdams View Post
            I'll pass the depth comment on to engineering - how much deeper?
            Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JeffAdams View Post
              I'll pass the depth comment on to engineering - how much deeper?

              An inch, at least. 2 would be terrific. But, I know that's a lot given the spacing of everything. Maybe a combination of farther back crossbar and slightly longer projection of the wing side tubes toward the front.

              As a reference my US9.5 shoes are right at 12" long, maybe a fraction of an inch longer, depending on brand. My foot itself is 10.75" from back of heel to tip of toe.

              Ideally, most people should be able to have their foot supported from the ball of foot's leading edge to the heel (without cramming calves into back of wing) for maximum traction, and leverage compressing/flexing the ankle joint.

              Super important for me, with a little drop foot (95deg max ankle angle) , and occasional clonus/calf muscles spasticity (triggered by small bumps).

              If my foot were any bigger, only half of it (from mid-arch to heel) would be on the rest. As it is, I extended my footplate forward ~1.25" with an add-on plastic cover (home made) to get what I personally need.

              I just know my feet aren't that big, my calves are tiny, and I barely fit (with my add-on) 2/3 of my foot on without hitting the rear bar. Lots of people have bigger feet and legs!

              Like I mentioned before, maybe width and depth customizing is easier addressed with a muti-position, side flared, footrest cover. One that slides open and closed, like the seat brackets, and can be mounted forward of the tube, at build time. Adjusted in the field, even better!

              Just thinking out loud, really.

              I'm digging my Icon thus far (detailed review forthcoming) and would hate to think some people pass on it because of a small-ish "one size fits all" component on such an otherwise highly configurable chair!
              "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

              "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

              "Even what those with the greatest reputation for knowing it all claim to understand and defend are but opinions..." -Heraclitus, Fragments

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              • #8
                Originally posted by elarson View Post
                Maybe I missed something in the drawings, but can you say how far back the depth of the tube is in the drawings?
                Eyeballing it with a tape, it's nearly 7" from leading edge of footrest to leading edge of rear crossbar. Give, or take, a fraction. ~1/2 the size of a US12.5 shoe.
                "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

                "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

                "Even what those with the greatest reputation for knowing it all claim to understand and defend are but opinions..." -Heraclitus, Fragments

                Comment


                • #9
                  I talked about a deeper depth on my earlier tread and I didn't talk about it again on my email sent to you. I also still think a deeper foot area would be great. It seems the depth is unclear on the drawing, but it seems like 185mm (7.3"). I would like to have at least 200mm (7.9") ~ 230mm(9.05")

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                  • #10
                    The crossbar can't really be moved back without it being detrimental to the continuous curve shape that we have. We're going to add 1" in length for every 1" in width for the sample parts to see how they look in real life.

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                    • #11
                      Awesome! Hope it works out! Look forward to seeing an image!
                      "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

                      "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

                      "Even what those with the greatest reputation for knowing it all claim to understand and defend are but opinions..." -Heraclitus, Fragments

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Jeff,
                        Do you have any update on this wider front wing? Last time, I heard about high cost of making a sample. Did you make any decision and/or update since then? Any update will be appreciated.

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                        • #13
                          Yeah - the samples were going to cost us over $1,000 because they had to make tooling for each size (both bend tooling and welding/straightening jigs).

                          We decided to go ahead and do a run of the largest size, so they'll be 3" wider.

                          If we see a demand for an intermediary size, we'll go ahead and do that.

                          They've been ordered, I think it should be 8-10 weeks before we get them in, but they're being made currently.

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                          • #14
                            So there's now 3 sizes of wings available? I think the regular one will work for me, and the newest wider one I believe is too wide. The demo I had was the old style with the different bend getting in the way, so I think without that bend I'm good.
                            Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

                            I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

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                            • #15
                              Thanks Jeff for the update.
                              So, what you ordered is 15.5" outer size, which is 14.5" inner size. It seems a little too wider. I believe many people use 16" or 17" width of a seat/cushion. When we attach front wheels to the frame, the total width between two front wheels could be a little less than the width between two real wheels. Nevertheless, it is your decision.

                              Regardless of the size, I would like to have wider one. If you let me have a wider set as you offered me on another thread, that will be great.
                              Last edited by JK; 11-06-2014, 06:08 PM.

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