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  • When I took my MX-1 Smartdrive LiFeP04 battery pack apart I found no battery management system inside to keep the cells balanced. It bothered me so much that I took it apart another time just to be sure there was none. There wasn't. As a result of this cool thread I'm learning why, thank you. That battery that supposedly can't be connected in series got me to googling. What I learned is that without a Battery Management System, the battery needs to stand alone to balance, or actually under 30 volts is okay. Read the following through C). http://www.lithbattery.com/knowledge...ifepo4battery/
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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    • Ok guys thank you for your input ! Off course the ZX-1 is working with 2 serial batts, I apologize for this mistake. I think I will try these Bioenno power from ElectricScooterParts, it's the best option anyway. I just hope they will be "Plug&Play" and that Spinergy didn't put somewhere (?) a kind of locking device, to keep the users captive and force them to buy the batts from the official resellers. These guys can be nasty when they want. We'll see…
      C6-7 since mid 2002, no hand control nor triceps.
      my website & my job (in France): Accessibility advisor www.acceslibre.eu
      Also working on a French research about Peer counseling and Empowerment.

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      • Good zLuck!
        The World is Watching You!
        69yo male T12 complete since 1995
        NW NJ

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        • Originally posted by robotnik View Post
          Ok guys thank you for your input ! Off course the ZX-1 is working with 2 serial batts, I apologize for this mistake. I think I will try these Bioenno power from ElectricScooterParts, it's the best option anyway. I just hope they will be "Plug&Play" and that Spinergy didn't put somewhere (?) a kind of locking device, to keep the users captive and force them to buy the batts from the official resellers. These guys can be nasty when they want. We'll see…
          These are 180 Watt hours. https://electricscooterparts.com/lif...batteries.html s The price might be indicative of a shorter travel time. I could not find online the Wh requirement/specs. So what I would do is to pull an existing Lithium battery out of a ZX-1 and see how it is marked/rated.
          I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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          • The link yields some interesting "information" (fake news?):
            B). Fast "forced" charging
            Because an overvoltage can be applied to the LiFePO4 battery it can be charged by only one step of CC to reach 95%SOC or be charged by CC+CV to get100%SOC. This is similar to the way lead acid batteries are safely force charged.

            C). Large overcharge tolerance and safer performance
            A LiFePO4 battery can be safely overcharged up to 30V without protection circuit board. It is therefore suitable for large capacity and high power applications.From the viewpoint of large overcharge tolerance and safety performance, a LiFePO4 battery is similar to a lead-acid battery.

            D). Higher energy density
            the lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) cell is a non-aqueous system, having 3.2V as its nominal voltage during discharge. Its specific capacity is more than145Ah/kg. Therefore, the gravimetric energy density of LiFePO4 battery is 130Wh/kg,

            E). Simplified battery management system and battery charger
            Large overcharge tolerance and self-balance characteristic of LiFePO4 battery can simplify the battery protection and balance circuit boards, lowering theircost.

            The charging info is interesting.

            My understanding of C) and E) implies that a BMS may not be necessary??
            69yo male T12 complete since 1995
            NW NJ

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            • Spinergy's site shows the conversion to Lithium. I closely watched and the battery pair the installed seemed to match the specs of those under consideration exactly! https://youtu.be/687CW1QxkJI 15Ah 180Wh It's at about 0:30

              Have you looked at the wiring diagrams of the LA vs Lithium circuits? Spinergy writes the external BMS protects the batteries in charge and discharge. I have not yet gotten my head around it if they are being completely honest needing it or not. If I were upgrading I'd just go with a 24 volt pack and ignore the external BMS. But high and low voltage cutoffs might get involved during operation.


              I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by pfcs49 View Post
                The link yields some interesting "information" (fake news?):
                B). Fast "forced" charging
                Because an overvoltage can be applied to the LiFePO4 battery it can be charged by only one step of CC to reach 95%SOC or be charged by CC+CV to get100%SOC. This is similar to the way lead acid batteries are safely force charged.

                C). Large overcharge tolerance and safer performance
                A LiFePO4 battery can be safely overcharged up to 30V without protection circuit board. It is therefore suitable for large capacity and high power applications.From the viewpoint of large overcharge tolerance and safety performance, a LiFePO4 battery is similar to a lead-acid battery.

                D). Higher energy density
                the lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) cell is a non-aqueous system, having 3.2V as its nominal voltage during discharge. Its specific capacity is more than145Ah/kg. Therefore, the gravimetric energy density of LiFePO4 battery is 130Wh/kg,

                E). Simplified battery management system and battery charger
                Large overcharge tolerance and self-balance characteristic of LiFePO4 battery can simplify the battery protection and balance circuit boards, lowering theircost.

                The charging info is interesting.

                My understanding of C) and E) implies that a BMS may not be necessary??
                I exactly agree about the external bms. It may be overkill and not necessary or may be absolutely required. Without more internal knowledge it is hard to say.
                I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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                • i have had the zx with lithium for several years now, really has been flawless. i did reprogram and tweek mine in the beginning...... I always suggest to all my customers purchasing a new unit to go with the lithium ion set up really is the only way to go as a matter fact I wish they were dump the standard set up for lithium only from the manufacturer.
                  Bike-on.com rep
                  John@bike-on.com
                  c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
                  sponsored handcycle racer

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                  • hi all,
                    Interesting news.
                    Just before ordering my batteries to Electric Scooter Parts, I tried the last bullet in my neighborhood. I phoned an industrial battery reseller nearby to have a quote.
                    the guy has had very quickly the answer from his first supplier (a French battery "builder" but I'm pretty sure he's buying his batts in China and just glue his own stickers) According to him, the serial mount on the ZX-1 was total crap, it was very dangerous to use these connectors with so many Amps, and by the way his batts were below 12A in this shape (!)
                    My reseller asked then another supplier working for him as battery rebuilder, but also well-known builder (and still in France)
                    Answer : the guy is able to build a custom battery for my use, and with this enclosure can reach 40A of continuous discharge current, 65A in peak !
                    So, I'm delaying my order to ESP, and I have to give this builder all the literature I can find on the ZX-1 that could help him to make an accurate offer. I read the previous pages of this thread from 42 to now, and found a link to an "official Spinergy" YT vid about the ZX and the swap from LA to LFP. I also found the manual and took the pages about wiring harnesses. I have still an issue with the "external BMS" which seems to be a mystery.
                    Do you think there's something else interesting to provide ?

                    C6-7 since mid 2002, no hand control nor triceps.
                    my website & my job (in France): Accessibility advisor www.acceslibre.eu
                    Also working on a French research about Peer counseling and Empowerment.

                    Comment


                    • I was startled to see 6.3mm push connections to the batteries! If not attended to (clean and tensioned) they quickly become troublemakers.
                      I wouldn't say they are dangerous however. When these terminals were commonly used, the much larger 10mm size were used for circuits over 16A.

                      IMO the best implementation might be two 24V batteries in parallel. The circuit could be rearranged, moving the circuit breaker which is installed between the two 12V LA batteries, and putting it at either (+/-) end of the battery pair.

                      And if it was necessary to sometimes charge them individually, it would be easy to implement a toggle switch to isolate them for charging.

                      Could you link the stuff so it's all here for study please?
                      69yo male T12 complete since 1995
                      NW NJ

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                      • Nice catch Phil, the ESP site says the terminal is a Faston F2 which when looked up is only 1/4 inch wide. When I re watch Spinergy's battery installation, I can't tell the size they have. One thing though, I've never encountered corrosion with lithium at the terminals like what happens with lead acid.

                        I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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                        • PS: if the batteries are used in a parallel configuration, the current through the terminals is halved making them pretty adequate.
                          69yo male T12 complete since 1995
                          NW NJ

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                          • Hi guys. I have just received my new ZX1 and it doesn't seem to like the USB to XLR plug programmer. I have used this cable to program the ZX1 for quite some time and it works on the old one but the comms port is active for a second then inactive making their no possibility of entering programming adjustments.

                            I'm using PG drives technology-mobility programmer access level C (manufacturing) 8.0.16

                            Has anybody been having any difficulty programming a newly purchased ZX1?

                            Anyway any assistance is appreciated.

                            Steve

                            I worked out it was the joystick controller cable join as I plugged the old VR2 into it that has no join and ran the programming through it that way.
                            Last edited by takenaback; Yesterday, 12:29 AM.

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