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Huge difference between Force and sit up straight bike in Marathons

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    #16
    Wow, that's good news all they way around John. I think I'm just going to sell my tractor which I'm not using anymore, been sitting the garage collecting dust and get a RX and have myself measured and all to make sure it fits me exactly right and that I get all the right options. This will give more space in the garage too for my handcycles.
    "Life is about how you
    respond to not only the
    challenges you're dealt but
    the challenges you seek...If
    you have no goals, no
    mountains to climb, your
    soul dies".~Liz Fordred

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by flying View Post
      How the hell can you average 20 mph on a hand cycle.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqkH16WkP3s

      From 2012 Melbourne Marathon. These guys are averaging over 20.

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        #18
        Great video, love the music. Believe me, I don't regularly average 20 mph or anything, but the tailwind was strong that day, I average more like around 13 on the flat, I think it could be more like around 16 on a lay down Force. I generally finish these marathons around mid pack.
        "Life is about how you
        respond to not only the
        challenges you're dealt but
        the challenges you seek...If
        you have no goals, no
        mountains to climb, your
        soul dies".~Liz Fordred

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Tman9513 View Post
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqkH16WkP3s

          From 2012 Melbourne Marathon. These guys are averaging over 20.

          I was middle of the pack before I crashed. We were cruising at 23 before the first bridge. The guys in the front are cruising over 25 on the flats. It is not that hard to hold 20 in a double pace line with 60 handcycles. The bridges separate the men from the boys though. I got dropped at the first bridge, then I tried to take a tight corner at 18 on the second lap and crashed pretty bad.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by flying View Post
            How the hell can you average 20 mph on a hand cycle, that's the speed I used to ride on a road bike pre sci. Of course I was in my 30s and not 58 but still that just seems really fast to me. No matter how strong your arms are, your shoulders do not like this much speed, at least mine don't. The double amputees use there hole upper body while sitting upright, I think there the fastest hand cyclists out there.
            I train with ABs on road bikes. They put me right in the middle of them, and a couple of the really strong riders will bump my draft bar with their front wheel to keep me up with the group. They bump me along at 25 or so on the flats, and I had one guy bump me up a bridge at just over 15mph.

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              #21
              In the video about in the middle, did you see the upright guy they went flying by, well that would be me. I guess I could bump it up for a race, but you know those are the only shoulders I'm going to get. I was a pretty good triathlete in my former life so racing is in my blood. Back then, when I started to train with the big boys, my body did not like it at all. Those guys sure looked fast, which puts us back to the original question, how much faster is the high end laided back bike? Sure would be fun to try one out.
              jheath you sure sound fast, way to go. How's your upper body doing?
              T12L1 Incomplete Still here This is the place to be 58 years old

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by flying View Post
                jheath you sure sound fast, way to go. How's your upper body doing?
                It's all relative I can finish up front at Achilles races down in South Florida, but I am one of the slower H2 guys in the USHF. I've been racing wheelchairs since 1991 handcycling since 2007, and other than some minor eaches and pains my shoulders are holding up pretty well. I do believe in exercising the entire shoulder to keep your anterior delt's from overpowering you posterior delts. I use a Rowing erg, and also kayak to work the entire shoulder.

                As far as sitting up and laying down the aero benefits help for sure, but us guys with higher level injuries can put more power into the cranks in a recumbent position. It stabilizes the core muscles we cant control so we can put more power into the cranks. We also use short narrow cranks and spin the cranks fast. Think of working out at the gym, bench press is the exercise that you can lift the most weight using just your arms/shoulders/chest. Force r/rx and equivelent bikes put you in the position of power.

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                  #23
                  How much faster? Pretty close to 15 minutes. I did Miami marathon in 1:53 December 2008(force G) and Melbourne 1:39 (Force R)February 2009.

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                    #24
                    There are few disadvantages to the reclined bikes. Obviously, the transfer may be a little more difficult than on an FRH. However, most people get it figured out pretty quickly and don't have much trouble. Another thing that is tough on the reclined bikes is seeing around/behind you. You pretty much have to rely on a mirror to see anything that is behind you. There's no turning around to take a peek.

                    As for the advantages, they FAR outweigh the disadvantages. Obviously, efficiency is a huge one. If your setup is right, I think a reclined bike can climb just as fast as an upright bike. Reclined bikes also distribute body weight a lot better. The weight from your upper body isn't going down into your sit bones. Most of it is carried by the backrest. So, if you're planning to do long rides, a reclined bike will also help avoid pressure issues.

                    In terms of power transfer, a lot of power is generated on the reclined bikes during the pull stroke. Along with efficiency, I think it can also help to avoid overuse injuries. Sitting upright pretty much just relies on the push stroke for power generation. Reclined bikes allow you to balance it out.

                    Unfortunately, lightweight reclined bikes are expensive. However, it will probably be a while before anything comes along that is a significant improvement over what is currently being offered. With the right wheels/parts, the CarbonBike and Force RX can weigh as little as 26-27 pounds. The GTM that Rafal Wilk rode in London weighed only 23! Knocking some weight off of your bike can also make a huge difference. Since we only have our arms to work with, we feel weight difference even more than an AB cyclist. Dollar for dollar, the Force RX is probably the most bang for the buck in terms of performance. There are a couple other manufacturers that are working on some new designs, too. So, we'll see if something better comes along in the next year or so. Handcycle companies sure have put a lot of effort into making improvements in the last few years.

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                      #25
                      Just started putting on my lay back hinged tube I had for the Freedom Ryder tonight. I had laying around in the back of my garage. I experimented around with it a couple of years ago. This time I'm going to try it with it not reclined as far back as I had it then and see how the bike feels. With it reclined back all the way it was very uncomfortable, I did feel the bike was faster, but visability was horrible and I can't picture myself doing a whole marathon in this position. It does not come all the way up my back and I've got no abdominal muscles, so thats a issue, but I figure cant hurt to try it again. I forgot last time I used it I broke the hinge bolt, searching around for a new bolt for that right now in my tool box.
                      "Life is about how you
                      respond to not only the
                      challenges you're dealt but
                      the challenges you seek...If
                      you have no goals, no
                      mountains to climb, your
                      soul dies".~Liz Fordred

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Heres what I'm debating, whether to move the crank down more or up a little. I figure if it's up more I'm pushing more with my triceps which is good because I really built those up with all the Tennis I played this winter. Or B. Move the crank down more so I'm pulling more with the biceps. The problem with this idea is that I've got no ab's (t4) so I may have to run a strap around me to hold me to the backrest as I pull. Maybe I'm just better off just not making any changes at this point? As you can see from the picture the crank is for the most part at the higher end of the adjustment, If I lower it though it may hit my legs, Anybody think a lower crank position would be beneficial for me on this bike. As you can tell I'm not real happy with the speed I have on this bike, never have been. I was actually faster on my Old Varna which was built in 1997, it was a faster riding position and the Vermont Marathon I'd turn low 2 hours with my best being 2:03. The best I've done on the Freedom ryder is a 2:11, kinda makes me sick because I've got $2000.00 carbon fiber wheels (total,got them used) and $3500.00 for the bike, so $5500.00. The Varna I got used for $1200.00. I guess I shoulda hung on to that for racing. I did just think of something, if I lower the crank down I could strap my legs together so the crank goes between my legs and does not hit, I think I'll try this tomorrow, legs strapped, crank lowered and body strapped to the backrest and seat reclined about halfway.
                        Last edited by Curt Leatherbee; 20 May 2013, 10:29 PM.
                        "Life is about how you
                        respond to not only the
                        challenges you're dealt but
                        the challenges you seek...If
                        you have no goals, no
                        mountains to climb, your
                        soul dies".~Liz Fordred

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Heres the position I was riding in last years marathon, maybe the crank has been too high all along?
                          "Life is about how you
                          respond to not only the
                          challenges you're dealt but
                          the challenges you seek...If
                          you have no goals, no
                          mountains to climb, your
                          soul dies".~Liz Fordred

                          Comment


                            #28
                            I've got mine way low, after moving it all around that seemed like the best place for me. But everyone is different, I like them low because I feel like I can get on top of
                            the cranks for pushing down, but I have my abs so that my not work for you. I've always though that my freedom rider was a recreational bike, not really set up for racing. For just dinking around and riding for fun, its great to be sitting up to take in the world as it goes by.
                            Curt do you every ride that bike, please throw some dirt and chain oil on it please.

                            jheath I see your point about laying down to ride without abs. I wonder if having the cranks closer together with a smaller circle would be better for ones shoulders? And why is that faster?
                            T12L1 Incomplete Still here This is the place to be 58 years old

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                              #29
                              I was just looking at Curts wide cranks and yes they are a little wide and they are hard on the shoulders. At one time everyone had wide cranks but it seems like every couple of years they start changing what works and what doesn't.

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                                #30
                                Ideally I'd like to be sitting just how you are on your handcycle crash, I just know in that position I would not be working anywheres near as hard as I am the way I'm sitting and like you noted I probably would be better off with more narrow cranks. But for general bike path riding and touring like when I go out to do Marthas Vineyard next month I'd rather be on the freedom ryder. Thats the main reason I got this bike was for touring. Being in that reclined position is not the greatest thing when just doing liesurely rides and I question if it's as good being reclined back when you hit steep up hills.
                                "Life is about how you
                                respond to not only the
                                challenges you're dealt but
                                the challenges you seek...If
                                you have no goals, no
                                mountains to climb, your
                                soul dies".~Liz Fordred

                                Comment

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