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15x17+1.5 80 Degree TiLite TR3

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    15x17+1.5 80 Degree TiLite TR3

    This is the Discussion Thread for This Chair in The CareCure CAD Repository

    Although I have already posted two other TR3's, this chair is actually the first TR3 that a colleague and I spec'd. It is for an experienced user with a low level injury who had a pretty specific idea what he wanted in his new chair. If it were not for our request to include the OFL in the first CAD drawing, it wouldn't have been close to what he had in mind (I discuss this in greater detail in my repository post).





    The Specs...
    Tilite TR Series 3
    15" Seat Width
    17" Seat Depth
    18.5 Custom Frame Depth
    Occupied Frame Length (OFL): 25.4"
    Overall Width: 20.8"
    80 Degree Front Angle
    19" Front Seat Height
    17.5" Rear Seat Height
    17" Seat To Footrest Height
    4" Front Frame Taper
    9" Footrest Width
    DU100057 Custom Adjustable Height Fixed Backrest
    10.5-14.5" Set @ 13"
    6.5" Custom Ht Rigidizer Bar
    Non-folding Back
    88 Degree Fixed Back
    3.5" Center Of Gravity
    .75" Rear Wheel Spacing
    0 Degree Camber
    4" Perf Billet Aluminum w/ Poly Tire
    Slipstream Fork w/ Titanium Stems
    25" Golz Twin-star Exchange Wheels w/ Schwalbe Speedrun Tires
    Short Tab Titanium Handrims
    Tension Adjustable By Straps Back Upholstery
    G10 Solid Seat
    Rigid Removable Standard Carbon Fiber Side Guards



    Due to the inset design of the TR3's lower frame rail, lack of camber, Golz TwinStar hubs, and short tab hand rims,the overall width of the TR3 is only about 5 3/4" wider than the seat width--making it one of the narrowest chairs we've ever spec'd.

    The backrest of this TR3 is notable for a few reasons. It is the first TR3 we've spec'd with a fixed back. While the user was fairly confident about the back angle, he had some uncertainty about the back height (It was unknown if the low back height on his current chair may have been contributing to back discomfort). To provide a range of back height adjustment, we spec'd the TR with a Custom Adjustable Height Fixed Backrest (Designs Unlimited Special DU100057)..



    This user loads the whole chair into the back of his minivan in one smooth motion without removing the wheel. To make this task easier, we spec'd the height of the curved rigidizer bar to be exactly 6.5" (instead of 5.0"). While this may seem like a minor detail, he reported having it placed there made a significant difference when picking up the TR.



    Surprisingly, the complete weight of the TR3 is about a pound more than his Terminator. This is likely because of the solid seat pan and slightly longer frame length. Weight isn't everything, however, and this TR3 user reported that it was not only easier to load into his vehicle, it was more efficient to push, and provided better postural support. The fact that weight isn't everything doesn't come as a surprise to many of us.


    #2
    Thank you for the detail.

    Looks quite a bit like a TR3 spotted rolling around my neck of the woods, oddly enough, that also recently replaced a Terminator for a service connected Vet that loads the whole chair into the back of a vehicle. Go figure. Couldn't be the same person, though. I don't imagine, anyway.

    Nice write-up!
    "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

    "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

    Comment


      #3
      And here we have the perfect example of how important the OFL is when trying to reproduce a previous chair.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by SCI_OTR View Post
        Surprisingly, the complete weight of the TR3 is about a pound more than his Terminator. This is likely because of the solid seat pan and slightly longer frame length. Weight isn't everything, however, and this TR3 user reported that it was not only easier to load into his vehicle, it was more efficient to push, and provided better postural support. The fact that weight isn't everything doesn't come as a surprise to many of us.
        Interesting. And this is with the new thinner-walled tubing? What is the total weight?

        Is this a TiLite solid seat pan? It doesn't look like the G10 option. And did they really need 5 bolts per side to attach it? Of course, they didn't need any bolts (it could be Velcro'd). My Series 1 ZR was ordered with a solid aluminum pan and TiLite used only 3 bolts per side. Can it really be this arbitrary?
        stephen@bike-on.com

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by stephen212 View Post
          Interesting. And this is with the new thinner-walled tubing? What is the total weight?

          Is this a TiLite solid seat pan? It doesn't look like the G10 option. And did they really need 5 bolts per side to attach it? Of course, they didn't need any bolts (it could be Velcro'd). My Series 1 ZR was ordered with a solid aluminum pan and TiLite used only 3 bolts per side. Can it really be this arbitrary?
          If I were ordering a TiLite, I'd go tension by straps seat and then upgrade to the totol1 velcro CF seat pan, without a doubt.

          Seems almost silly, now, to fill a frame with holes just to have a good seat pan.

          Not to mention the hardware, etc, adding to the weight.
          "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

          "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by stephen212 View Post
            Interesting. And this is with the new thinner-walled tubing? What is the total weight?

            Is this a TiLite solid seat pan? It doesn't look like the G10 option. And did they really need 5 bolts per side to attach it? Of course, they didn't need any bolts (it could be Velcro'd). My Series 1 ZR was ordered with a solid aluminum pan and TiLite used only 3 bolts per side. Can it really be this arbitrary?
            It is the G10 solid seat which has a metal rib to reinforce it which is absolutely mandatory.

            As far as the number of fasteners, it isn't arbitrary at all. They use the same hole pattern that would if it were equipped with bolt on upholstery.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by SCI_OTR View Post
              It is the G10 solid seat which has a metal rib to reinforce it which is absolutely mandatory.

              As far as the number of fasteners, it isn't arbitrary at all. They use the same hole pattern that would if it were equipped with bolt on upholstery.
              OK. And the weight? (Your response to my questions, at least, seems very arbitrary.)
              stephen@bike-on.com

              Comment


                #8
                Comparing frames, the Terminator uses less frame tubing. The design of the Terminators curved rear frame likely shaves a few ounces and, paradoxically, the route that the TR3's lower frame rails take in order to make the frame more compact actually requires more tubing than simply running the frame rail directly to the caster housing.



                Each design has it strengths.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by stephen212 View Post
                  OK. And the weight? (Your response to my questions, at least, seems very arbitrary.)
                  Weight is very arbitrary. I got a shade under 22 lbs. complete when I weighed the TR3 on a scale in our clinic. I don't know how accurate that is.

                  The weight difference of 1 lb. I cited was based on a follow up email I received from him late last week. He used a fish scale to weigh both frames.

                  He is wheelchair racer who competes at a high level so I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of the weights he provided. I just don't have them.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by SCI_OTR View Post
                    This is the Discussion Thread for This Chair in The CareCure CAD Repository

                    Although I have already posted two other TR3's, this chair is actually the first TR3 that a colleague and I spec'd. It is for an experienced user with a low level injury who had a pretty specific idea what he wanted in his new chair. If it were not for our request to include the OFL in the first CAD drawing, it wouldn't have been close to what he had in mind (I discuss this in greater detail in my repository post).





                    The Specs...
                    Tilite TR Series 3
                    15" Seat Width
                    17" Seat Depth
                    18.5 Custom Frame Depth
                    Occupied Frame Length (OFL): 25.4"
                    Overall Width: 20.8"
                    80 Degree Front Angle
                    19" Front Seat Height
                    17.5" Rear Seat Height
                    17" Seat To Footrest Height
                    4" Front Frame Taper
                    9" Footrest Width
                    DU100057 Custom Adjustable Height Fixed Backrest
                    10.5-14.5" Set @ 13"
                    6.5" Custom Ht Rigidizer Bar
                    Non-folding Back
                    88 Degree Fixed Back
                    3.5" Center Of Gravity
                    .75" Rear Wheel Spacing
                    0 Degree Camber
                    4" Perf Billet Aluminum w/ Poly Tire
                    Slipstream Fork w/ Titanium Stems
                    25" Golz Twin-star Exchange Wheels w/ Schwalbe Speedrun Tires
                    Short Tab Titanium Handrims
                    Tension Adjustable By Straps Back Upholstery
                    G10 Solid Seat
                    Rigid Removable Standard Carbon Fiber Side Guards


                    Due to the inset design of the TR3's lower frame rail, lack of camber, Golz TwinStar hubs, and short tab hand rims,the overall width of the TR3 is only about 5 3/4" wider than the seat width--making it one of the narrowest chairs we've ever spec'd.

                    The backrest of this TR3 is notable for a few reasons. It is the first TR3 we've spec'd with a fixed back. While the user was fairly confident about the back angle, he had some uncertainty about the back height (It was unknown if the low back height on his current chair may have been contributing to back discomfort). To provide a range of back height adjustment, we spec'd the TR with a Custom Adjustable Height Fixed Backrest (Designs Unlimited Special DU100057)..



                    This user loads the whole chair into the back of his minivan in one smooth motion without removing the wheel. To make this task easier, we spec'd the height of the curved rigidizer bar to be exactly 6.5" (instead of 5.0"). While this may seem like a minor detail, he reported having it placed there made a significant difference when picking up the TR.



                    Surprisingly, the complete weight of the TR3 is about a pound more than his Terminator. This is likely because of the solid seat pan and slightly longer frame length. Weight isn't everything, however, and this TR3 user reported that it was not only easier to load into his vehicle, it was more efficient to push, and provided better postural support. The fact that weight isn't everything doesn't come as a surprise to many of us.
                    So in the order form, this chair is 1" longer than seat depth ?
                    Life is meaningles, though you create the purpose.sigpic

                    Comment


                      #11
                      nice ride. my only question. why folding side guards with a rigid back. adds weight and they get sloppy.
                      Bike-on.com rep
                      John@bike-on.com
                      c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
                      sponsored handcycle racer

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by fuentejps View Post
                        nice ride. my only question. why folding side guards with a rigid back. adds weight and they get sloppy.
                        Good question about the guards. I'm also surprised by the conservative COG measurement, especially with such little dump and forward seat angle. Given the profile of the user I would have expected something less conservative.

                        Overall it's a beautiful, sleek-looking ride. Hope he loves it.
                        stephen@bike-on.com

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Per the user's report.
                          Terminator complete = 16.33 Lbs.
                          TR3 complete = 17.30 Lbs.
                          He removes his side guards when dressing.

                          Where a person's COM will be for a given configuration can vary significantly depending on their body proportions, weight, and cushion thickness. My ZRc is no longer used as an "unoffical demo" becuase two very skilled users flipped back in it.

                          This was our first TR3, and the COG was spec'd to ensure he would bet the curved rear frame. We knew it could be easily adjusted so we were not particularly concerned. He was pretty satisifed with the overall balance where it was at and I doubt he changed it.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by SCI_OTR View Post
                            Per the user's report.
                            Terminator complete = 16.33 Lbs.
                            TR3 complete = 17.30 Lbs.
                            He removes his side guards when dressing.

                            Where a person's COM will be for a given configuration can vary significantly depending on their body proportions, weight, and cushion thickness. My ZRc is no longer used as an "unoffical demo" becuase two very skilled users flipped back in it.

                            This was our first TR3, and the COG was spec'd to ensure he would bet the curved rear frame. We knew it could be easily adjusted so we were not particularly concerned. He was pretty satisifed with the overall balance where it was at and I doubt he changed it.
                            Does "complete" include wheels, seat cushion, etc.?

                            As a source of reference my ZR2 weighs 22.6 lbs all in: cushion, wheels, everything (less me).
                            stephen@bike-on.com

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by stephen212 View Post
                              Does "complete" include wheels, seat cushion, etc.?

                              As a source of reference my ZR2 weighs 22.6 lbs all in: cushion, wheels, everything (less me).
                              Another data point, my 15x16 BT-Mg is 21.5Lbs, all in.
                              "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

                              "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

                              Comment

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