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Danger: TiLite ZR2 front wheel assembly flutters and locks up

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    Danger: TiLite ZR2 front wheel assembly flutters and locks up

    I have a TiLite ZR2 that is less than one month old. As I speed up the front wheel assemblies flutter. TiLite said to tighten the forks so that they do not spin freely. I did that and it made the problem worse. Before I made this change the front wheel assemblies would flutter and I had enough time to take this as a warning to slow down. After I made this change the front end locked up so quickly that there was no warning time and I was thrown out.

    I am not talking about any ridiculous speeds. My dog was pulling my chair on a flat and smooth road at approximately 15 mph when the front end locked up and threw me out.

    My Quikie wheelchair is 8 years old and does not have this problem even after being hit by a car.

    I am in the process of returning this TiLite ZR2 chair. It is unsafe and should never have been delivered to me in this condition.
    37
    yes, but not so bad that it is unsafe
    2.70%
    1
    yes, and it is bad enough to be unsafe
    18.92%
    7
    no
    78.38%
    29

    #2
    What type casters and what wheel size does the chair have?
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Axle View Post
      I have a TiLite ZR2 that is less than one month old. As I speed up the front wheel assemblies flutter. TiLite said to tighten the forks so that they do not spin freely. I did that and it made the problem worse. Before I made this change the front wheel assemblies would flutter and I had enough time to take this as a warning to slow down. After I made this change the front end locked up so quickly that there was no warning time and I was thrown out.

      I am not talking about any ridiculous speeds. My dog was pulling my chair on a flat and smooth road at approximately 15 mph when the front end locked up and threw me out.

      My Quikie wheelchair is 8 years old and does not have this problem even after being hit by a car.

      I am in the process of returning this TiLite ZR2 chair. It is unsafe and should never have been delivered to me in this condition.
      Have you checked the caster angle?

      If it's off it will cause flutter.

      Jeff
      Doh!

      Comment


        #4
        4" x .75" plastic wheel with poly tire. TiLite standard fork. The wheelchair is configured as speced and manufactured. In other words, it is not modified. The front forks are at 90 degrees.

        Comment


          #5
          IMO 15 mph is very fast for a wheel chair. I would expect most casters greater than 3" diameter to flutter at that speed. For being pulled outside by a dog, I'd get a FreeWheel.
          Chas
          TiLite TR3
          Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
          I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

          "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
          <
          UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

          Comment


            #6

            toto's vid of him coasting downhill in the Spanish countryside at around 40mph with 4" casters.

            But, yeah, buy an Oracing. I love mine... Also my Lasher is real smooth at high speed too, both chairs have FrogLeg Uni-tine forks with 4x1.4" softroll casters.

            Might want to go visit Mike Box in Norco, I have had my ass spanked downhilling it in a Rocky Mountain paved trail system by a crazy C6 buddy of mine that uses one (same caster setup). Probably the extra $3-4k in his pocket giving him more momentum.

            Good luck. Tell Ti to get their shit together.
            Last edited by tooley; 20 Jan 2013, 7:21 PM. Reason: added vid

            Comment


              #7
              Huh! I have a ZRa and my service dog pulls me in it all the time. The problem here, I think , is not the chair...chairs are not made to go THIS fast! The issue is you need to signal your dog ot slow down or let go of the pull handle.... Anything could throw you out, short of a handcycle, going too fast.
              Tourette's Syndrome - motor tics of the legs, feet and back, which can make it difficult or impossible to walk

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by tooley View Post
                toto's vid of him coasting downhill in the Spanish countryside at around 40mph with 4" casters.
                He's really moving; how was his speed determined? (I don't understand Spanish.)
                Chas
                TiLite TR3
                Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
                I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

                "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
                <
                UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

                Comment


                  #9
                  I believe there was an aircraft tracking him and they apprehended him before he reached his vehicle. lol

                  Naw, just a guess-timate, chas. I realize that sign near the end is 40kph, that is a warning for the turn. He is definitely exceeding that speed as he approaches it. Between the 3 and 4 minute mark of the video there are portions where (IMO) he is definitely getting close to 40mph.

                  I don't think the OP is asking too much of his new chair.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by voxina View Post
                    chairs are not made to go THIS fast! The issue is you need to signal your dog ot slow down or let go of the pull handle.....
                    Thank you for your comment, however dogmatic. How do you know what speed a chair is designed to travel? I get no warning. It starts to vibrate at about 10 mph and a few seconds later it can reach 15 mph and lock up. That means that even if i were to try to slow down, I have no warning to do so. That means that I can never travel above walking speed (less than 10 mph). That is not a reasonable expectation.

                    My Quickie, which is 8 years old goes over 30 mph before it vibrates and give me lots of warning to slow down.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Besides, 15 mph is not 'speeding'. A person runs faster than that. Sorry Nancy. Your response to slow down would be reasonable if I were going twice that speed. But if a grandmother could run faster than that, I think my expectation is reasonable.
                      Last edited by Axle; 20 Jan 2013, 7:59 PM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by tooley View Post
                        I realize that sign near the end is 40kph, that is a warning for the turn. He is definitely exceeding that speed as he approaches it. Between the 3 and 4 minute mark of the video there are portions where (IMO) he is definitely getting close to 40mph.

                        I don't think the OP is asking too much of his new chair.
                        Oh, a plane, I couldn't see it

                        You're right, the sign is a curve warning, not a speed limit.

                        If the OP is not asking too much, then my chair has too much flutter, too. I had 6" TiLite softrolls, and they would flutter coasting down an ADA ramp all lubed, squared and with tightened forks. I switched to FLAHSR, and they don't flutter on ramps, but I can still get them to flutter coasting down a steep hill not even approaching 15 mph. Maybe I'm setting my expectations too low.
                        Chas
                        TiLite TR3
                        Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
                        I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

                        "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
                        <
                        UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Rarely will a manual wheelchair attain anything close to 15 MPH unless it is rolling downhill.

                          I use 4 x 1.5 FrogLegs Aluminum Hub soft roll casters on regular bearing forks and have never experienced caster flutter. I can let my chair coast freely down the full length of a parking garage ramp and experience no flutter at all when I reach the bottom. I don't know what my terminal velocity is, but it takes me 100-150 feet to stop.

                          Now that I think about it, I don't remember seeing caster flutter on any TiLite rigid frame.

                          My guess is that the source of your problem is the very basic 4x.75" plastic wheel/poly tire. That is a very narrow, low end caster that is made out of a relatively soft material. It is installed on a fork that can accommodate casters that are up to twice the width. Bearings that are seated in a soft plastic hub will not have the same precise alignment as bearings seated in an aluminum hub. Not only are the tolerances much looser, the caster axle is relatively wide.

                          The only other thing I can think of would be a floating caster because of uneven tension in the footrest.
                          Last edited by SCI_OTR; 20 Jan 2013, 8:15 PM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by chasmengr View Post
                            IMO 15 mph is very fast for a wheel chair. I would expect most casters greater than 3" diameter to flutter at that speed. For being pulled outside by a dog, I'd get a FreeWheel.

                            Thanks for the lead. I will consider the FreeWheel. But I should say that my expectation for my new TiLite to be able to travel 15 mph is reasonable. Even TiLite says it is a reasonable expectation.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by chasmengr View Post
                              Oh, a plane, I couldn't see it

                              You're right, the sign is a curve warning, not a speed limit.

                              If the OP is not asking too much, then my chair has too much flutter, too. I had 6" TiLite softrolls, and they would flutter coasting down an ADA ramp all lubed, squared and with tightened forks. I switched to FLAHSR, and they don't flutter on ramps, but I can still get them to flutter coasting down a steep hill not even approaching 15 mph. Maybe I'm setting my expectations too low.
                              Your expectations are certainly too low. The purpose of a wheelchair is not only access but also mobility. If you can run that fast your chair should go that fast. I can see if you bought a budget chair you may be dreaming. But remember we are talking state of the art chair.

                              Comment

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