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Danger: TiLite ZR2 front wheel assembly flutters and locks up

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    #76
    I never saw a picture of the chair in question, did I miss it?
    Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

    I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

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      #77
      Originally posted by SCI_OTR View Post

      Could it be that it originally had FrogLegs forks?

      Oh, the intrigue!
      If it originally had Frogleg forks, that would account for available space which could be used for making adjustments. Adjustment is not the name of the game on these chairs as far as I know.
      I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by stephen212 View Post
        For a time TiLite was still offering the ZR (later dubbed the "ZR1" among the cognoscenti) even after they introduced the ZR2 -- that is, the production of the two overlapped. Later, when they discontinued the "ZR1", they dropped the "2" from the ZR2. Not sure why they made this change in nomenclature, it simply sows confusion.

        Bottom line: the current iteration ZR was previously known as the ZR2; it's the same model.
        Yes, but why the big diff in caster arm angle? No latest-iteration ZRs out there that I can find since the 'herd' stampeded off to the TR3 so I can't really verify my hunch that TiLite went to a flatter angle with my 'ZR" arms (no special request) and your ZR2, per your request ... but no others that I know of. No biggie here, but interesting.

        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by nofuss View Post
          Yes, but why the big diff in caster arm angle? No latest-iteration ZRs out there that I can find since the 'herd' stampeded off to the TR3 so I can't really verify my hunch that TiLite went to a flatter angle with my 'ZR" arms (no special request) and your ZR2, per your request ... but no others that I know of. No biggie here, but interesting.
          If you check out TiLite's Facebook photo gallery, you'll see that there's considerable variation in the geometry within any given model, especially the ZRs. We don't have all the facts, but I assume that this particular chair, like any other TiLite, was built per spec.
          stephen@bike-on.com

          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by SoCalSteve View Post
            Feeding a troll is like wrestling a pig, the pig loves it, and you just get covered with mud.
            Originally posted by grommet View Post
            Brian is not a troll. He's a very nice guy and honestly trying to help.
            Thanks for your concern, but don't worry - I'm enjoying this.
            And as he's confirmed, Steve was talking TO me, not ABOUT me.


            Originally posted by Axle View Post
            Perhaps telling me there is no reason to post a poll and just ask the question is less than helpful and non of his fucking business.
            Wasn't it just the other day that you were the one telling me to 'calm down'?


            Originally posted by grommet View Post
            Brian, it's not so simple for some of us. I'm still trying to learn what makes a difference and what would be better. I don't have the funds to see a really good seating specialist like SCI_OTR and buy a chair. ...I can feel it. But it isn't right.

            I really want to get to the point you are talking about when it no longer feels like I am sitting in a chair. I do want it to feel like an extension of my body. It seems a long struggle getting it right and some of us need more hellp.
            Yeah, I think that's a big issue with the newer chairs from all manufacturers: they're just not as customizable as the old ones. I mean, If I want to tweak the toe-in on just my left rear wheel all it takes a couple washers and about 30 minutes with a wrench. If I want to move to rollerblade casters and 26" rear wheels all I need is to throw a space on the fork stem. I even drilled new axle plate holes in my frame because I wanted my RSH a little lower. That's how much ownership I have over the fit of my chair.

            If you wanted to make a slight camber adjustment to a TiLite you have to order a whole new camber tube (plugs?). Or if you want to adjust the FSH on a ZR you just can't. You have to order a whole new frame. You can't tweak a TR and then sit in it a week to see how it feels and then go tweak it some more. Since the frame geometry is fixed any moderate adjustment either needs major parts or is simply not possible. And even the ZRa isn't that adjustable.

            People get told what they need by their rehab or by a seating specialist - and that's a great place to start - but the only real way to dial it in is by sitting in it. And then adjusting it. And then sitting in it. And then adjusting it. And so on. But the new chairs have a real limited range of adjustability. So there are a lot of people that get stuck with something that is correct on paper but may not feel right. What you ordered is pretty much what you get and that's too bad.

            That's what I mean when I talk about ownership and "making it yours". I have command over nearly every aspect of the fit of my chair. Again, it's a GPV, but I wouldn't trade it for anything. Instead of getting used to the chair, I can make the chair get used to me. But that's just not possible with these new designs.

            That being said If you know EXACTLY what you need then a TR or ZR is a fantastic choice. I've been in a chair for 20 years and am just now starting to feel like I might be ready for a TR. I feel like I might know how to build it so that it would feel just right. But it's still a huge risk. Even if I sent TiLite my current chair and said, "Build it exactly like this" it's gonna have a slightly different weight and balance because of the materials and design. And then I'd be stuck with it.

            I'm rambling.
            Last edited by brian; 22 Jan 2013, 2:34 AM.

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by SoCalSteve View Post
              I agree, Brian is not a Troll. Axle is a text book concern troll. You're welcome
              Trolling: Internet behavior meant to anger and take the subject off-topic.

              Sounds like Brian and SoCalSteve share this trait

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by ~Lin View Post
                I'm not sticking up for tilite, I've never owned a tilite product. I'm just stating tilite facts and personal opinion. I'll stick up for Quickie, I love my Q7.


                No, I said tilite makes good wheels, and you DIDN'T BUY THEM. You purchased pr1mo wheels, not tilite wheels. What I said was pretty clear. If you want to argue that pr1mo makes both "cheap crap wheels" and quality products, go ahead.

                Wheelchairs come in a wide range of options due to needs and insurance covered. Its been stated you purchased wheels that would be suitable to get around inside the house, but not for outside especially an active user. I agree. I have the same wheels but in a wider option, they were paid for by medicaid who only cares that my wheelchair is suitable to use around the house and not whether or not I get outside with it.
                Lin, Fair enough. I can see where you are coming from. If I had known that these casters are so bad, I would have ordered different ones. But that said, even TiLite agrees that this chair (as configured) should be able to go at the speed of a human running without locking up. So how was I to know. I plead guilty to not being a wheelchair caster expert.

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by Axle View Post
                  Good point nonoise. I have not looked very closely to manufacturing issues. I am giving credit to TiLite to do their homework. Otherwise if it means that I have to re-engineer the wheelchair, I don't want the wheelchair. This is not a $500 wheelchair. This is a $5K wheelchair.
                  For $5k you could have got a chair that:
                  - allows you to easily rotate the castor arms (see the photo below)
                  - allows you to extend the footrest away from the rest of the chair.

                  Both options increase the distance of the casters from the rear wheels (which has been offered as a reason why your casters flutter).

                  And you would have suspension!

                  (It's an Icon, before you ask).
                  Gordon, father of son who became t6 paraplegic at the age of 4 in 2007 as a result of surgery to remove a spinal tumour.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by Axle View Post
                    Trolling: Internet behavior meant to anger and take the subject off-topic.
                    I'm only here to help and have never been off-topic in this thread. I don't know what your problem is.

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Getting back to your original question on caster flutter. 4"x.75" plastic casters are not conducive for high speeds. If you want to do higher speeds then buy casters that will do those speeds. IMO more like a 5"x1.5" soft rolls. 5" because they will take the cracks and small debris better. 1.5" because they are a bit heavier and will have less tendency to flutter at the higher speeds.

                      Using the casters you have is like taking a good bike with cheap wheels out mountain biking and then complaining that the bike should have handled better.

                      Tilite is a great chair. They have their problems like most other chairs do alo. I wouldn't have a Quickie if they gave it to me mainly because I remember how good they used to be before they were bought out by Sunrise and their Customer service sucks.

                      You have 84 posts and putting down a guy who spends a lot of time here helping people such as yourself is out of line. Brian is one of many here who definitly are not trolls. I suggest you reel it in a bit and learn.

                      You can call me a troll also. Course I only have 40 years in a chair and was part of the evolution that helped get the 57lb. E&J sportchairs to the ones we have now.

                      As Brian said, it takes a lot of re-adjustments to get a chair to fit. For many of us in the early days of post sci, it took up to a year to adjust and literally re-make a chair for maximum efficiency.

                      You want to go fast, adjust your chair, get the proper equipment and have fun.
                      Last edited by Patrick Madsen; 22 Jan 2013, 12:07 PM.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        I don't think you're rambling, I found what you said interesting. I've got 17 years in a chair but the first part was mostly in a powerchair. Learning all about life with a manual these last five. I like your approach, living with an adjustable chair and learning just what works. I started with fixed frame chairs, didn't know any better. I just listened to DME's. Some really don't know what they are talking about and lead me to a paranoia that nobody who isn't using a chair can understand them. The slightest thing on my chair makes a difference in my day and when I ask detailed questions of DME's they seem annoyed or like they are about to roll their eyes because I'm being picky. I am not being picky, I live my fucking life in one of these things and it's not good for my body and everything I do is work. A small change can make a big difference.

                        I liked the idea of the Icon being so adjustable, I figured I could really try every combination and learn about what I needed. The Icon didn't work out for me but maybe it would be a good chair for a seating specialist to use for fitting someone. Ultimately I would like something totally welded so I don't have to worry about anything loosening or creaking. It's a tough thing figuring out your measurements and then, you get older and you don't have the same body. I think the real trick is to be rich. You can just keep buying a brand new chair every month or so and try all the combinations, give the remainders away. Giving away my lottery fantasy am I? ;-)

                        Brian wrote:
                        "That being said If you know EXACTLY what you need then a TR or ZR is a fantastic choice. I've been in a chair for 20 years and am just now starting to feel like I might be ready for a TR. I feel like I might know how to build it so that it would feel just right. But it's still a huge risk. Even if I sent TiLite my current chair and said, "Build it exactly like this" it's gonna have a slightly different weight and balance because of the materials and design. And then I'd be stuck with it.

                        I'm rambling"

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by Patrick Madsen View Post
                          Getting back to your original question on caster flutter. 4"x.75" plastic casters are not conducive for high speeds. If you want to do higher speeds then buy casters that will do those speeds. IMO more like a 5"x1.5" soft rolls. 5" because they will take the cracks and small debris better. 1.5" because they are a bit heavier and will have less tendency to flutter at the higher speeds.

                          Using the casters you have is like taking a good bike with cheap wheels out mountain biking and then complaining that the bike should have handled better.

                          Tilite is a great chair. They have their problems like most other chairs do alo. I wouldn't have a Quickie if they gave it to me mainly because I remember how good they used to be before they were bought out by Sunrise and their Customer service sucks.

                          You have 84 posts and putting down a guy who spends a lot of time here helping people such as yourself is out of line. Brian is one of many here who definitly are not trolls. I suggest you reel it in a bit and learn.

                          You can call me a troll also. Course I only have 40 years in a chair and was part of the evolution that helped get the 57lb. E&J sportchairs to the ones we have now.

                          As Brian said, it takes a lot of re-adjustments to get a chair to fit. For many of us in the early days of post sci, it took up to a year to adjust and literally re-make a chair for maximum efficiency.

                          You want to go fast, adjust your chair, get the proper equipment and have fun.
                          I am not trying to go blazing fast. I am trying to go at the speed of a person running. Are you saying that a chair with these casters should be kept to walking speed?

                          As far as your troll comments goes, I don't go flaming others on their threads. I don't appreciate them flaming me on mine, regardless of who they are and how helpful they may be otherwise.
                          Last edited by Axle; 22 Jan 2013, 8:15 PM.

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by Axle View Post
                            I am not trying to go blazing fast. I am trying to go at the speed of a person running. Are you saying that a chair with these casters should be kept to walking speed?

                            As far as your troll comments goes, I don't go flaming others on their threads. I don't appreciate them flaming me on mine, regardless of who they are and how helpful they may be otherwise.
                            Hi Axle, Just saying that yes, with those casters, it's dangerous to go at faster speeds. Not saying you can't do it but the smaller, skinner, cheap plastic with cheap bearings have a tendency to flutter at a higher rate of speed. They are not designed to go at a faster speed as the average person in a chair doesn't go that fast. That may be why they have different casters available on their order form. I wouldn't order thru them if you are thinking on it. Sportaid or Bike-on.com gives a much better after market price.

                            You're one of us type A's that need to push the envelope. To do that safely, a better, larger caster may be needed. It only takes one header from hitting a small rock to send you flying; a different caster at least lessens the chance of that. I'm surprized the others who get pulled haven't said anything about the setups they have.
                            Sure sounds fun to be pulled by your dog,especially in warm Orange County. I lived in Huntington Beach off 11th st. back in the day.

                            Like the rest of us, you'll end up with a garage full of stuff.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              maybe you could discuss this matter with member:
                              rlmtrhmiles....he knows all
                              https://www.carecure.net/forum/member.php?u=180055

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by Axle View Post
                                I am not trying to go blazing fast. I am trying to go at the speed of a person running.
                                A wheelchair matching pace with a runner is pretty fast. Not in the grand scheme of things, but relatively speaking. Normal, off-the-rack chairs aren't designed to sustain those speeds for very long. Even TiLites. Just because your old chair could doesn't mean the new one will; you can't have the same expectations when you make a major change in equipment.

                                FYI: I have these bad boys. They're heavy, but bulletproof.

                                Comment

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