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(action needed) TiLite trying to stop online suppliers shipping internationally

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    #31
    Originally posted by elarson View Post

    Our problem is that we were just approved for a budget based on TiLite after a heavy fight. Had I known this would happen, I would have fought much harder for RGK, Scmicking, ORacing, GTM, etc. I thought we were being pragmatic...
    You have me wondering about this. You "were just approved for a budget based on TiLite" - were your quoted estimates not done by the only Dutch TiLite dealer, the "monopoly" as you put it? If their prices are high, you were approved for this amount, do not like TiLite's policies, and have multiple superior choices in that region of the world why not spend the money on another brand? I know for fact Oracing can build chairs that cost less than TiLite, I own both. Why so hung up on this?

    Titanium is only a gimmick. Look at the bicycle industry - they've turfed it.

    I'm just not seeing the issue here, although I do appreciate your efforts. If you don't like something, don't buy it (as others have pointed out).

    Comment


      #32
      I can understand how someone might be confused, and I'll try to explain. What we were approved for from the government did not include some options that we felt were important, but we were not able to convince the government of. We have no intention of pocketing any money that is not directly used for the chair, but if there are better options that we can receive cheaper prices by shopping around, it only behooves us to do that and get the chair he really needs. It took 6 months to get the government to approve a TiLite, and it would be a nightmare to start all over with another brand, and there are some brands they will just not approve.

      Even if we could get approval for another brand, I have a full time job (own business), do caregiving, and also need to maintain 2 chairs (one upstairs the other downstairs) and do all the household stuff. Wheelchair research and maintenance is done late night and weekends, when I have time to work on it. I have already invested a lot of time time in gaining knowledge on TiLite chairs, including how to fix and adjust them. Because our other chair is a TiLite, I would also like the ability to swap some parts as needed.

      I also want they ability to purchase parts and options online, which is not possible here. Because I am a native English speaker, I also want to be able to buy parts from someone I can speak with easily. These points were all criteria when we started our search, and had I known about this policy I would have maybe chosen differently, as many other international people seem to be doing lately. At that time I had looked into Oracing, RGK, Panthera, etc., but I did not find the prices to be better than what I can order TiLite online from the US.

      If I am beholden to one specific local supplier, who does not have an online presence for parts or options, I will be at their mercy for fixing problems. With another supplier we have on 2 occasions waited 2-3 months for parts, in which time my husband was hurt badly because of faults to the chairs. When they finally did replace parts, I felt that I would have done a better job, and I had to be there anyway -- would have been faster and safer to do it myself. I do have more trust in the local TiLite supplier for service, but I sill do not want to go through the hassles of organizing appointments during business hours with them.

      Other than purchasing the chair from a local supplier, I am not expecting to need any value-added services. Even if we do, we will need to pay for them, so there is no reason to pay extra markup when purchasing the chair for services we will not receive any cheaper. We would only use them for services in an emergency if I am not able to do it myself. If we were able to order parts directly online I am quite certain that we will have the parts faster and that I can fix it quicker than calling a local supplier.

      To me this policy is like a car manufacturer saying that you can only buy a car and parts locally. If the car brakes down while travelling, too bad -- you have to buy parts from your local supplier. If my husband cant get more mobile, the plan is to be in the US more. It would be ridiculous to be having parts shipped from Europe at a huge markup that came from the US. Also, we have many people visiting from the US that can bring parts over.

      [BTW, one of them is an engineer in the bicycle industry, who has similar views to you about titanium. The jury is out still with me on strength, but I like it because my husband bangs his chair around a lot because of hemispatial neglect, and it does not look so beat up.]

      Lastly, purchasing locally means an average of about 20% more than TiLite MRSP and about 40% more than what I can buy online for. On non-TiLite options buying locally is on average 50% more expensive than what I can buy online. it's hard to justify, even if you include extra shipping charges.

      Having said all of this, we are hoping that our local supplier will give us a reasonable quote for a basic configuration on a ZRA. But, I absolutely refuse to pay the exorbitant markup for non-TiLite options, which they have already stated they can not discount.

      So, maybe I am just stubborn or a bit too lazy to start over again, but that is why I am so hung up on this. We all have our stories and reasons for what we do, but what I really dislike is having the best laid plans and having no choice.


      Originally posted by tooley View Post
      You have me wondering about this. You "were just approved for a budget based on TiLite" - were your quoted estimates not done by the only Dutch TiLite dealer, the "monopoly" as you put it? If their prices are high, you were approved for this amount, do not like TiLite's policies, and have multiple superior choices in that region of the world why not spend the money on another brand? I know for fact Oracing can build chairs that cost less than TiLite, I own both. Why so hung up on this?

      Titanium is only a gimmick. Look at the bicycle industry - they've turfed it.

      I'm just not seeing the issue here, although I do appreciate your efforts. If you don't like something, don't buy it (as others have pointed out).
      Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

      Comment


        #33
        How is it absurd? Its on topic of equipment and as can be seen in the thread affects more than just elarson. I also don't consider 6 months for approval to be having it easy, here you can get the actual chair within 3 months on Medicaid or 6 months Medicare on average.

        I don't think tooley understands that your budget is item specific and you have to buy the brand items and options approved as opposed to a lump sum budget that would allow you to buy whatever you want within that budget. I definitely would not want to be starting over at this point either!
        Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

        I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

        Comment


          #34
          You said
          but by bringing this on a site like this is completely obsurd.
          And there's nothing absurd about discussing a wheelchair/tilite issue here.
          Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

          I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

          Comment


            #35
            I am not asking for anyone to deal with shipping costs or red-tape. I will deal with that, and still prefer to order internationally. We have to pay in advance regardless, so it is absolutely ZERO risk for any company we deal with.

            How exactly is it easy here? I think you may want to reconsider making judgements like that without knowledge. My husband paid 12.5% tax for long-term care insurance over many years to pay for situations like this. That does not include what you would consider social security payments in the US (I see you are from NY).

            I ship internationally all the time, and it is expensive, but much less expensive than paying exorbitant local prices and dealing with the red-tape locally. Shouldn't we be the ones who judge, along with the companies willing to make the effort, rather than some blanket rule by a manufacturer? I find your post rather niave and callous, even though I don't think you probably meant it that way. I question who is "obsurd"!

            Originally posted by smashms
            E i agree with tooley here they are going to do what they want to do either way suck it up and forget it. if you don't like it then move!! or use someone else instead. really don't get what the issue is here. i would say you have it easy there but i don't know what it is like i know in the US it is getting more expensive to ship overseas and that may be their reasoning why they are not going to do it any more. there is alot of red tape that needs to be broken thru inorder to ship and recieve an item that was shipped internationally. so i am too not sure why you must continue on this subject i know you want to help your husband i can tell that but by bringing this on a site like this is completely obsurd.
            Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

            Comment


              #36
              Exactly Lin -- item, by item specific, including brand. I've already got a hassle because we are considering D's Locks instead of ADI Disc Brakes, even though they are cheaper (add 2-4 weeks of red-tape, even though they have no clue what either are).

              I think there are many other internationals here also rethinking doing business like this. I think many do not want to poke their heads up, but I have heard from a few privately.

              Originally posted by ~Lin View Post
              How is it absurd? Its on topic of equipment and as can be seen in the thread affects more than just elarson. I also don't consider 6 months for approval to be having it easy, here you can get the actual chair within 3 months on Medicaid or 6 months Medicare on average.

              I don't think tooley understands that your budget is item specific and you have to buy the brand items and options approved as opposed to a lump sum budget that would allow you to buy whatever you want within that budget. I definitely would not want to be starting over at this point either!
              Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

              Comment


                #37
                You are missing the point smashms. I want to order from an online company where we will absorb all shipping costs. It's at no risk to TiLite, or even to the online company, because we will pay in advance, including all shipping costs. What's the issue?

                Originally posted by smashms
                lin here most things are add ons as well and most are not covered by medicaid or medicare. and i was't saying it is obsurd to wait that long as it takes longer here most times. i said it is obsurd to want to change what tilite is going to do anyways they are in business for one reason only and that is to make money they obsiviously can't do that when they are paying an overabundance of shipping costs to ship internationally, the only way they can do this is to pass it on to the consumer and they obviosuly don't want to pay or can't afford to pay for it so they find it necessary to stop shipping internationally. which i find difficult to believe anyways. giving the size of the company. so i think this is a far fetched thing anyways because if they were really going to do this it would be all over the news. and it isn't.
                Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

                Comment


                  #38
                  I agree that TiLite is going to do what they want to do, and as a business that is completely within their rights. That does not mean that I as a consumer can not voice my view against it. Silence is compliance, and I'm just trying to let them and others know about it. I don't understand why you find that so upsetting, but that is also completely within your rights. I think I've done the best I can to explain my point of view, so I won't belabour that any further.

                  I do think I am missing your point, especially about "it would be all over the news and it isn't". I hardly think any big news organization is going to pick up on this story. If you are questioning whether it is true or not, all you need to do is read previous posts in this thread. Or better yet, try to order a TiLite chair or parts online to be shipped internationally.

                  Originally posted by smashms
                  exactly my point what's the issue here they are going to do what they want to do anyway. no i think you are missing the point elarson not me. if TiLite was really going to do this anyway it would be all over the news and it isn't
                  Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by elarson View Post
                    Or better yet, try to order a TiLite chair or parts online to be shipped internationally.
                    I have done it plenty of times, shipped to South America and Spain without any problem.
                    Online orders through Sportaid or Bike on can be done without any problems.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Have you tried it since the beginning of October?

                      Originally posted by totoL1 View Post
                      I have done it plenty of times, shipped to South America and Spain without any problem.
                      Online orders through Sportaid or Bike on can be done without any problems.
                      Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

                      Comment


                        #41
                        I agree with Toto and the Sportaid. The wheelchair gloves I am wearing are actually bicycle gloves I ordered on Internet, not remember who through, but the things were shipped from Austrailia and no issues. Cost was fair and not pay any kind of charges.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          This is new and not yet implemented so toto et all ordering internationally in the past is irrelevant. And its already been confirmed earlier in the thread that something is up. Its also been confirmed earlier in the thread that this affects many people. And Tilite does read here and possess a username. In addition quickie who does not have employees posting here has still taken notice and action based on things discussed here.
                          Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

                          I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by elarson View Post
                            Have you tried it since the beginning of October?
                            No i didn`t, but i contact my online dealer and this is his answer, so probably they will only let to ship to countries where they didn`t have an oficial dealer :

                            Hola Amigo. Unsure where you geard this news - but you have heard correctly - we are being
                            restricted by Ti Lite, it depends on where you need to ship ? Let me know - may be OK ?

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by totoL1 View Post
                              No i didn`t, but i contact my online dealer and this is his answer, so probably they will only let to ship to countries where they didn`t have an oficial dealer :

                              Hola Amigo. Unsure where you geard this news - but you have heard correctly - we are being
                              restricted by Ti Lite, it depends on where you need to ship ? Let me know - may be OK ?

                              Wow, totol1, that is solid info.

                              Queue my typical response to TiLite's prioritization of it's dealer network over the end users.

                              TiLite considers their dealers their customers, NOT us.

                              They suck, and no matter how great their chairs are they will never use that as leverage to entice me to spend money with them, on account of their anti-end user business model.
                              "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

                              "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by DaleB View Post

                                TiLite considers their dealers their customers, NOT us.

                                They suck,.
                                Agreed, well i`m not worried, this is the ZR that i`m going to order since now, lol.

                                Last edited by totoL1; 26 Nov 2012, 4:10 PM.

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