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    Service Dog Quesion

    I have my service dog. She has been with me for 1.5 years. She is all self trained and very good with people and the things she does! I have even taken her to Craig Hospital a couple of times now. There is a ciity around me that has and city ordnance that my type of dog is not allowed, . I have not been kicked out of this town or anything like that but I will be traveling soon and that town happens to be a pit stop where some of my family lives!

    Can they legally do anything to me or the dog?

    #2
    Originally posted by zwthomp View Post
    I have my service dog. She has been with me for 1.5 years. She is all self trained and very good with people and the things she does! I have even taken her to Craig Hospital a couple of times now. There is a ciity around me that has and city ordnance that my type of dog is not allowed, . I have not been kicked out of this town or anything like that but I will be traveling soon and that town happens to be a pit stop where some of my family lives!

    Can they legally do anything to me or the dog?
    I am pretty sure that ADA laws when it comes to service dogs override any of their silly ordinances. In fact, that city could be setting themselves up for a huge lawsuit if they deny you and your service dog!

    Comment


      #3
      Any public space a service dog can be in. The exception is if the dog is acting aggressive or causing other problems. Sometimes if my daughter's dog barks once or twice we just leave. A whole town is a little odd.

      You mentioned a dog type. I assume Pit Bull or Rottweiler....is that what the town banned?

      Comment


        #4
        The way it works is that the ADA overrides the city ordinances BUT, and it is a huge BUT, not everyone will know this and your dog may be taken away from you and put in a shelter or even put down before you will have been able to prove that the ADA takes precedence.

        It is a risk taking a Service Dog into these locations with breed bans. Sad but true.
        Oli

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Domosoyo View Post
          Any public space a service dog can be in. The exception is if the dog is acting aggressive or causing other problems. Sometimes if my daughter's dog barks once or twice we just leave. A whole town is a little odd.

          You mentioned a dog type. I assume Pit Bull or Rottweiler....is that what the town banned?
          She is a Doberman Pinscher

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Oli View Post
            The way it works is that the ADA overrides the city ordinances BUT, and it is a huge BUT, not everyone will know this and your dog may be taken away from you and put in a shelter or even put down before you will have been able to prove that the ADA takes precedence.

            It is a risk taking a Service Dog into these locations with breed bans. Sad but true.
            Oli
            YIKES!! I would be sooo raged. I might end up in jail if this would happen for life....

            Comment


              #7
              I'm pretty sure you're protected by the ADA. I unfortunately remember a story about a man who moved from Chicago to some little town in Iowa who had his service dog taken away because pit bulls were banned in that town. He took it to court and was allowed to have the dog back until the courts decided whether or not he could keep fido. I don't remember what the court decided, but it was a sad story regardless.

              I hate that some breeds get such a bad rap when it's their owner's fault for raising them to be aggressive. I have a pit and she's the biggest baby...end rant.
              Maggie
              C5/6 incomplete since '99

              "All our dreams can come true, if we have the courage to pursue them." - Walt Disney

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Domosoyo View Post
                Any public space a service dog can be in. The exception is if the dog is acting aggressive or causing other problems. Sometimes if my daughter's dog barks once or twice we just leave. A whole town is a little odd.
                Actually that's not true. There are certain areas service dogs are not allowed when the presence constitutes either a fundamental alteration or a threat to safety. For example, there are specific parts of zoos where service dogs can be prohibited because their presence upsets the zoo animals.

                Also, its always good to note that government buildings are not covered under the ADA, but covered under section 504 of the Rehab act.

                Sometimes what is public vs private comes up, for example a church is private and up to the discretion of the church for service dog access, in a court room its up to the judge, and so forth.

                Correct that any service dog causing a disruption may be asked to leave.

                Its not so simple as ADA/vs ordinances when it comes to breed bans... But before I say anything I want to double check some things.

                Lin
                Board member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project
                http://www.facebook.com/pages/Assist...06209239409178
                Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

                I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Wow this is a really interesting question. ZW, I'm really sorry this is an issue for you. I'm sure your dog is a sweetheart who is only interested in serving you! hence why he's your SD! geesh oh man makes me so sad. Breed Only Bans make my blood boil.

                  My best friend can train service dogs, trained her own a half pittie (who would as soon lick a robbers face than bite him) and is training a full pitt bull for a veteran now. sweetest boy in the world. cracks me up that people think their mean. a gold retriever could be trained to be viscous, its how they are treated! Will be discussing this one with her, she's a big advocate and authority on it and has done speaking etc on it. Even got to meet Shorty!

                  @mb19, seriously, rant away! I could go on and on!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You may want to get some info here too.

                    http://www.iaadp.org/

                    I went to the SS office and the guard requested I move away from everyone due to the children sitting near me with my SD. I was livid.
                    Get involved in politics as if your life depended on it, because it does. -- Justin Dart

                    I shall not tolerate ignorance or hate speech on this site.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by ~Lin View Post
                      Actually that's not true. There are certain areas service dogs are not allowed when the presence constitutes either a fundamental alteration or a threat to safety. For example, there are specific parts of zoos where service dogs can be prohibited because their presence upsets the zoo animals.
                      Really? My friend has a service dog and has been to the Bronx Zoo several times...not once has she not been allowed to have her service dog in any part of the zoo that she was...and she has been to the monkey house, the lion house, etc. This surprises me.
                      "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot nothing's going to get better. It's not." - Dr. Seuss

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by wheeliecoach View Post
                        Really? My friend has a service dog and has been to the Bronx Zoo several times...not once has she not been allowed to have her service dog in any part of the zoo that she was...and she has been to the monkey house, the lion house, etc. This surprises me.
                        Its usually places in the zoo that have free roaming animals that working dogs are asked to stay away from. Things like the petting zoo, or rainforest exhibits that allow people to walk through an exhibit with free roaming butterflies, birds, frogs, ect (CA Academy of Sciences barrs dogs from their rainforest exhibit) . Also any place that has sensitive animals.

                        I had working dogs for a good 15 years, but never took them to zoos. I'm sure though if you showed up with a working dog they would tell you if there were restrictions in the park. If they don't then I'm sure its all good I miss the Lion House at the SF Zoo, it was awesome to see them fed!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Ok, this is probably going to end up long but you asked a question, might as well answer it right!

                          First, I’d like to clarify what defines a service dog. According to the reformation act implemented March 15th 2011 a service dog is defined as:
                          Service animal means any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability. Other species of animals, whether wild or domestic, trained or untrained, are not service animals for the purposes of this definition. The work or tasks performed by a service animal must be directly related to the handler´s disability. Examples of work or tasks include, but are not limited to, assisting individuals who are blind or have low vision with navigation and other tasks, alerting individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing to the presence of people or sounds, providing non-violent protection or rescue work, pulling a wheelchair, assisting an individual during a seizure, alerting individuals to the presence of allergens, retrieving items such as medicine or the telephone, providing physical support and assistance with balance and stability to individuals with mobility disabilities, and helping persons with psychiatric and neurological disabilities by preventing or interrupting impulsive or destructive behaviors. The crime deterrent effects of an animal´s presence and the provision of emotional support, well-being, comfort, or companionship do not constitute work or tasks for the purposes of this definition.
                          Bolding mine, to clarify the difference between a service animal and an emotional support animal or therapy animal. (note, service dogs in training are also not addressed by the DOJ)

                          Next, service dogs are NOT covered under the ADA. There are 3 sections to the ADA, title I, II, and III. I deals with employment and is overseen by the EEOC. Titles II and III are overseen by the Department of Justice. The DOJ regulations are what address service animals. The ADA is civil law and not a place or people that can enforce something. The DOJ handles the law. Since its civil law regarding rights, unless a particular area has criminal law written regarding service animals no one can be taken to jail or arrested for violating the civil law. (an off note, depending on the local police they may or may not be of assistance in helping mediate access issues). Most of you are probably already familiar with this, knowing that when ADA accommodations are not there you have to legally handle it with lawyers and civil court.

                          Lets take an example of a violation. Say you have a service dog, and move into an apartment that does not allow pets. Your dog is a service dog, and must have accommodation, correct? Well yes, and no. For one everything falls under “reasonable accommodation.” These are civil rights, not criminal, so you cannot just say “I have a service dog, you must allow it.” You’re going to need to follow the right channels and submit a written request for accommodation. If that accommodation is denied, you may take it to court. In court you’ll have to prove you are disabled, that your dog IS a service dog, and that your request for accommodation was reasonable.

                          Now that that’s been said… The DOJ has discussed breed bans and service dogs in the Federal Register 28 CFR Part 36. Though this discussion has been made (and some were for, and some against breed bans) there is currently no regulatory law in place that addresses service dogs and breed bans.
                          Source: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2010...2010-21824.htm
                          Breed limitations. A few commenters suggested that certain
                          breeds of dogs should not be allowed to be used as service animals.
                          Some suggested that the Department should defer to local laws
                          restricting the breeds of dogs that individuals who reside in a
                          community may own. Other commenters opposed breed restrictions,
                          stating that the breed of a dog does not determine its propensity
                          for aggression and that aggressive and non-aggressive dogs exist in
                          all breeds.

                          The Department does not believe that it is either appropriate or
                          consistent with the ADA to defer to local laws that prohibit certain
                          breeds of dogs based on local concerns that these breeds may have a
                          history of unprovoked aggression or attacks. Such deference would
                          have the effect of limiting the rights of persons with disabilities
                          under the ADA who use certain service animals based on where they
                          live rather than on whether the use of a particular animal poses a
                          direct threat to the health and safety of others. Breed restrictions
                          differ significantly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Some
                          jurisdictions have no breed restrictions. Others have restrictions
                          that, while well-meaning, have the unintended effect of screening
                          out the very breeds of dogs that have successfully served as service
                          animals for decades without a history of the type of unprovoked
                          aggression or attacks that would pose a direct threat, e.g., German
                          Shepherds. Other jurisdictions prohibit animals over a certain
                          weight, thereby restricting breeds without invoking an express breed
                          ban. In addition, deference to breed restrictions contained in local
                          laws would have the unacceptable consequence of restricting travel
                          by an individual with a disability who uses a breed that is
                          acceptable and poses no safety hazards in the individual's home
                          jurisdiction but is nonetheless banned by other jurisdictions.
                          Public accommodations have the ability to determine, on a case-by-
                          case basis, whether a particular service animal can be excluded
                          based on that particular animal's actual behavior or history--not
                          based on fears or generalizations about how an animal or breed might
                          behave. This ability to exclude an animal whose behavior or history
                          evidences a direct threat is sufficient to protect health and
                          safety.
                          Ok, so we’e addressed what a service dog is, who covers service dog law, who handles violations, and the fact that there is currently no law specifically addressing this issue. So, lets say you have a service dog that is a pit bull and your city bans them or you move to a city that bans them… You might end up fighting this in court. And this may be AFTER something happens such as your dog being confiscated.

                          Lin
                          Board member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project
                          Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

                          I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by ~Lin View Post
                            Next, service dogs are NOT covered under the ADA.
                            Strange. The government seems to think service animals (dogs) and miniature horses are covered by the ADA...
                            Source: ADA Service Animals, 2010 Update

                            There are 3 sections to the ADA, title I, II, and III.
                            Related materials can be found, here:
                            Title I (EEOC)
                            Title's II and III, revised 2010 (ada.gov)
                            Revised Final Title II with integrated text (ada.gov)


                            So, lets say you have a service dog that is a pit bull and your city bans them or you move to a city that bans them… You might end up fighting this in court. And this may be AFTER something happens such as your dog being confiscated.
                            Collisions between local/state Breed Specific Legislation (BSL's) have occurred several times. As an example: a recent case involved a disabled veteran and retired police officer. In his decision for Sak & Leifer v. The City of Aurelia, Iowa (search Judge Bennett's decisions page for "sak"), federal district court Judge Bennett agreed: where a service animal is concerned, federal law overrules state and/or political subdivisions laws/ordinances banning specific breeds.

                            Again, as for your claim that the ADA does not protect service animals and miniature horses, Judge Bennett and the Department of Justice (DOJ) seem to disagree with you. In Judge Bennett's decision (PDF!) on page 28, he states in part: "The DOJ has addressed such a contention in its Guidance To Revisions To ADA Regulation On Nondiscrimination On The Basis Of Disability In State And Local Government Services (Guidance To Revisions)..."

                            For Title II entities (governments), you can read the federal code of regulations, Title 28 part 35 (link takes you directly to "Service Animals").

                            For Title III entities (private/commercial e.g. hotels and restaurants), you can read the federal code of regulations, Title 28 part 36 (link takes you directly to "Modifications in policies, practices, or procedures" under which you may find "(c) Service animals" and "(6) Inquiries").

                            Comment


                              #15
                              ^glad you brought up mini horses.
                              full sized horses, in some cases, have been used as service animals. I remember this lovely leopard appaloosa mare that the owner would literally ride in the store. She was perfectly behaved, it was in a small town. I don't think that type of situation would work well everywhere, or even what LAWS are in place to allow it. but it was a true working animal for her, and protected under the laws as such. really interesting story. but quite unique case very few horses are bomb proof enough.

                              Okay sorry back on topic!
                              I am almost positive SDs ARE covered under the ADA..

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