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Sitting lower: add more dump or bigger rear tires

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  • #16
    Is it even possible to do 25" wheels with projections?

    If so, I would verify that the projection rim being sold as a 25" version isn't just the 24" version with different mounting hardware.

    25" wheels would mean less clearance during transfers-especially with a shorter frame.

    On the other hand 4.5" is a lot of seat slope is over 16".

    Then consider you are going to lose a tad bit of seat depth with an ADI back and lose any sag in your back upholstery that may be increasing your effective seat depth. I would definitely get the Schulte Dimension, subtract 3/4" to account for the back, and compare it to the SD you get off your current chair.

    I think the "center of the hub" rule also goes out the window when you use projections. It's more whether or not you feel you are getting optimal leverage. With 24" wheels, that may mean 15.5"--or even lower.

    Have you contemplated surgical resection of 1-2" of your tibia & fibula in each leg? A shorter lower leg length means a lower front STF height and the ability to attain a 15" to 15.5" rear STF height with less dump.

    That is truly a difficult question to decide. One that you may want to contemplate until the TR Series 2 comes out.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by jschism View Post
      These wheelchair companies should have a a chart that indicates people over a certain height should try the bigger diameter wheel.
      Why? It would be about as useful as a chart classifying wheelchairs by HCPCS codes. Rear seat height, rear axle location, cushion thickness, and CAFT* all need to be considered.

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      • #18
        * Clearance Area for Transfers

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ~Lin View Post
          What are the consequences when your finger isn't around the middle of the quick release button? I've been meaning to get some photos of me in my chair and post asking about that. Now that I'm remembering again I'll try to get that today or tomorrow...

          I think my hands are pretty far away from the middle of the wheel. I'm not entirely sure since I'm going by feel and not able to look at myself. I've wondered about what the difference is when you don't fit the chair that way. But I also started thinking about the youtube video JeffAdams made showing the difference between transferring from the lower wing of the icon and how thats better for your shoulders. So I thought maybe having the pushrims lower might be better for my shoulders? But in this thread it sounds like being lower (higher pushrim) gives you further reach, which means going further with each push and therefor better for the shoulders?

          I have 2" of dump now and have been thinking about increasing it because I have some difficulty carrying things on my lap. I'm concerned about my hips hurting from the more closed angle though.
          this is a great question. I'm wondering if getting further down in my chair will give me a longer stride in my push, bc I feel like I make tons of short pushes due to my inability to really reach alot of the wheel. does lowering your ass allow you to reach back further in your push?
          An administrator made me remove my signature.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by SCI_OTR View Post
            Is it even possible to do 25" wheels with projections?

            If so, I would verify that the projection rim being sold as a 25" version isn't just the 24" version with different mounting hardware.

            25" wheels would mean less clearance during transfers-especially with a shorter frame.

            On the other hand 4.5" is a lot of seat slope is over 16".

            Then consider you are going to lose a tad bit of seat depth with an ADI back and lose any sag in your back upholstery that may be increasing your effective seat depth. I would definitely get the Schulte Dimension, subtract 3/4" to account for the back, and compare it to the SD you get off your current chair.

            I think the "center of the hub" rule also goes out the window when you use projections. It's more whether or not you feel you are getting optimal leverage. With 24" wheels, that may mean 15.5"--or even lower.

            Have you contemplated surgical resection of 1-2" of your tibia & fibula in each leg? A shorter lower leg length means a lower front STF height and the ability to attain a 15" to 15.5" rear STF height with less dump.

            That is truly a difficult question to decide. One that you may want to contemplate until the TR Series 2 comes out.
            Getting correct projections for 25" wheels has been a concern of mine, but I have swapped some emails and it appears to not be a problem. The form I fill out is very detailed in the dimensions, they are custom made and "yours" once made. They do ask about wheel size and brand as well as center-to-center dimensions, among other things. So excellent question and I do believe they will be made as needed.

            I will see about getting the Schulte Dimension, if the insurance ever comes through! I forgot about transfers; I suspect I can work around it, I just need to scoot down further. I did have the ADI back on my current chair for a (very) short time, wishing now I had more time with it.

            While I have better reach to my projections than my previous chair, I can tell I'd be better served if I was down a bit lower.

            Surgery, you are scaring me!

            What do you know about a series 2?
            C5-6 Complete - 8/13/1982

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            • #21
              Originally posted by feisty View Post
              this is a great question. I'm wondering if getting further down in my chair will give me a longer stride in my push, bc I feel like I make tons of short pushes due to my inability to really reach alot of the wheel. does lowering your ass allow you to reach back further in your push?
              Yes, you get a better stroke and leverage.
              C5-6 Complete - 8/13/1982

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              • #22
                Originally posted by feisty View Post
                this is a great question. I'm wondering if getting further down in my chair will give me a longer stride in my push, bc I feel like I make tons of short pushes due to my inability to really reach alot of the wheel. does lowering your ass allow you to reach back further in your push?
                I started a thread here so as to not derail! /forum/showthread.php?p=1504771#post1504771
                Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

                I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by feisty View Post
                  this is a great question. I'm wondering if getting further down in my chair will give me a longer stride in my push, bc I feel like I make tons of short pushes due to my inability to really reach alot of the wheel. does lowering your ass allow you to reach back further in your push?
                  it will also make your chair much easier to manuever, imo. there is a wheelchair users handbook somewhere that explains different setups and explains methods of pushing and tips to ease shoulder abuse. here's an article that talks about getting an effective push stroke and setup of rear wheel placement. NOTE there are 4 pages to this article and you have to read around the darn ads. Using a circular motion like that is discussed will really help with soreness and getting wore out from pushing, if you watch wheelchair racers they make circular motions when pushing, I think that is discussed in article, too and how to relate it to everyday use.
                  http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb4927/is_3_61/ai_n32047176/?tag=content;col1
                  Last edited by jschism; 03-15-2012, 10:03 PM. Reason: add

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                  • #24
                    I think the Schulte dimension is important because I'm not convinced you don't actually have a +2 frame (1" for the FL suspension forks +1" for the custom frame)

                    Originally posted by Brianm View Post

                    What do you know about a series 2?
                    Oooh. Time to fuel the rumor mill. I've heard it made an appearance at ISS last week. So it shouldn't be long...

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by SCI_OTR View Post
                      I think the Schulte dimension is important because I'm not convinced you don't actually have a +2 frame (1" for the FL suspension forks +1" for the custom frame)


                      Oooh. Time to fuel the rumor mill. I've heard it made an appearance at ISS last week. So it shouldn't be long...
                      At one time I questioned whether I had something greater than +1 as well, even though Jimbo and I went back and forth with TiLite generating several CAD's. They actually didn't originally design my chair with +1 even though I was getting FL's. They felt it wasn't necessary for my chair, for whatever reason. Well, I was expecting +1 because of the FL's and wanted it, so I (and Jimbo) made sure I had +1. I can feel underneath my frame and feel where the bend starts and it is indeed exactly 1" after my upholstery. Nonetheless, I agree on the Schulte dimension.

                      Interesting on the rumored series 2; I wonder what would be different.
                      C5-6 Complete - 8/13/1982

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by SCI_OTR View Post
                        I think the Schulte dimension is important because I'm not convinced you don't actually have a +2 frame (1" for the FL suspension forks +1" for the custom frame)
                        I asked TiLite for the "Schulte" dimension and they act like it is so hard for them to figure that out. I have had CAD training and use it on my own computer, it takes a person probably not a minute to add the dimension to a CAD drawing. Seems almost like TiLite doesn't want to give that dimension because they have such crappy tolerances, they don't want to promise that dimension. When I finally did get the dimension, they noted it was an "estimated" distance, what crap.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jschism View Post
                          I asked TiLite for the "Schulte" dimension and they act like it is so hard for them to figure that out. I have had CAD training and use it on my own computer, it takes a person probably not a minute to add the dimension to a CAD drawing. Seems almost like TiLite doesn't want to give that dimension because they have such crappy tolerances, they don't want to promise that dimension. When I finally did get the dimension, they noted it was an "estimated" distance, what crap.
                          Maybe it's the fact that I named it after Paul Schulte from Top End.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by SCI_OTR View Post
                            Maybe it's the fact that I named it after Paul Schulte from Top End.
                            i just said i need the measurement from the backrest to the front of footplate

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                            • #29
                              Would bigger rear tires help if the issue is your fingertips too high from hub? I understand it wouldn't make a difference with how close your fingers were to the hub since the axle position doesn't change, but the bigger wheel would still result in sitting deeper between the tires, and possibly result in more pushrim within reach?
                              Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

                              I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ~Lin View Post
                                Would bigger rear tires help if the issue is your fingertips too high from hub? I understand it wouldn't make a difference with how close your fingers were to the hub since the axle position doesn't change, but the bigger wheel would still result in sitting deeper between the tires, and possibly result in more pushrim within reach?
                                It would be true if I were to put a 25" wheel on my current chair, which would cause other issues, but having a new chair made with the intent of 25" wheels will cause my seat to be 0.5" closer to the hub. If you set a 24" and 25" wheel side-by-side the hub on the 25" will obviously be 0.5" higher. In ordering a new chair I will spec the rear seat height to be 16" just like my current chair with 24's, so the rear seat height will be the same as my current chair, yet the hub will be 0.5" higher with the 25's; it is in how they design the chair with the wheel size in mind.
                                C5-6 Complete - 8/13/1982

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