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  • #31
    Goes back to the issue I had when I wanted to see the Marvel and there was only 1 place in all of the Dallas-FT. Worth area that had a demo and that I could have ordered it from. So at that point if they would have actually had the chair sitting on tires with air in them and had not lost some of the parts to the chair and I would have absolutely loved it and wanted to purchase it, I would have been rewarding their lack of service because it was the only place around to make that purchase. If that is the dealer network you/we are to rely on then we are in trouble.
    even worse: the guy who set up / managed that dealer network is in your area.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by TexasWheelz View Post
      Well that's a great idea and while I hope it works out, I have a fear that it's just wishful thinking. If I choose to buy a bike/car/electronic I have multiple sources to choose from and if I don't like one then I can drive around the corner and go to another. I know of 4 bike shops within 5 miles of me and that isn't including the places like Wal-Mart where I could also purchase one.

      With medical equipment and specifically certain equipment we don't have that option. Goes back to the issue I had when I wanted to see the Marvel and there was only 1 place in all of the Dallas-FT. Worth area that had a demo and that I could have ordered it from. So at that point if they would have actually had the chair sitting on tires with air in them and had not lost some of the parts to the chair and I would have absolutely loved it and wanted to purchase it, I would have been rewarding their lack of service because it was the only place around to make that purchase. If that is the dealer network you/we are to rely on then we are in trouble.

      The only way your idea will work is if I have several choices to make my purchase from, so unless you are going to have multiple dealers in every location it isn't going to work like the bike/car/electronics industry does.
      Texas, I read what you wrote a few times and I still don't understand. What are you saying about dealer networks?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by TexasWheelz View Post
        Well that's a great idea and while I hope it works out, I have a fear that it's just wishful thinking. If I choose to buy a bike/car/electronic I have multiple sources to choose from and if I don't like one then I can drive around the corner and go to another. I know of 4 bike shops within 5 miles of me and that isn't including the places like Wal-Mart where I could also purchase one.

        With medical equipment and specifically certain equipment we don't have that option. Goes back to the issue I had when I wanted to see the Marvel and there was only 1 place in all of the Dallas-FT. Worth area that had a demo and that I could have ordered it from. So at that point if they would have actually had the chair sitting on tires with air in them and had not lost some of the parts to the chair and I would have absolutely loved it and wanted to purchase it, I would have been rewarding their lack of service because it was the only place around to make that purchase. If that is the dealer network you/we are to rely on then we are in trouble.

        The only way your idea will work is if I have several choices to make my purchase from, so unless you are going to have multiple dealers in every location it isn't going to work like the bike/car/electronics industry does.
        In both big and small ways, we're trying to make sure that you DO have the option.

        For some of the small parts, you can go to a bike dealer to get a shock pump, and ask them if they'll consider doing service to your Icon if your dealer won't throw one in with the purchase of your Icon. If you bought an Icon from an online retailer, you can get a price for a shock pump there, as well as at a bike store, and compare both to the price your DME is offering you. You can get the DME to source the quick release levers, or go to JensonUSA.com, or go to a local bike shop. It's not a "game changer", but it's what we can do right now. What we can do to encourage positive change in a year might be more.

        In a bigger way, at Marvel, I got talked into doing a bunch of "exclusive" deals by the guy who had been hired to manage the dealer network - getting talked into exclusive deals was a huge mistake that I made. Part of the reason that I made the decision was because I trusted a guy with an MBA instead of my gut, my understanding of the industry, and my personal and intimate understanding of what's important to someone who uses a wheelchair.

        I was also talked into not selling through online retailers, to "protect" the dealers. Again, my mistake. I knew better, and it was no coincidence that the first dealer that we announced at the launch of Icon was the online retailer Sportaid.

        This time around, we're not entertaining any exclusive deals with any dealers, which we hope will help drive the service end of things - and anytime we can, even with things as small as quick release levers and shock pumps, we're trying to stimulate and challenge the dealer network to rise to the service challenge.

        I want to be clear here - although it's our first priority (with every decision we make) we're not only trying to help the end-user with this strategy/philosophy. The dealers who go the extra mile and provide great service will rise to the top as well. We appreciate and value good dealers who focus on providing a good customer experience - don't forget, both Christian and I have spent a collective 55+ years being customers too.

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        • #34
          Jeff,

          How do I find the quick release levers that you have on the Icon wing? I went to JensonUSA.com and wasn't sure what to type in the search.

          Thanks

          Comment


          • #35
            30.6 quick release seat post.

            http://www.amazon.com/Salsa-Flip-Loc.../dp/B001C67KHW

            http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...eat+Clamp.aspx

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by patd View Post
              After working with Icons' western sales rep, Mark Marrott, I have put together a shim package that is neccessary to fit your FreeWheel to an Icon. The footrest is different enough that the stock shim set that comes with every FreeWheel doesn't accomodate the Icon. So, I will send out the shim package to all that need it, just let me know.

              Pat
              "Hey, the guy that makes those was out here not long ago"
              I lost track of how many times I heard that when in CB.
              I could use a shim kit, please.

              Comment


              • #37
                Thanks
                Last edited by grommet; 12-31-2011, 08:30 PM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by JeffAdams View Post
                  That's the correct way for those "extras" to be included, and this is one way that we're trying to push this industry to have a more consumer-service focused dealer network like it is in the bike/car/electronics/everyother industry.
                  Seriously? Good luck with that.

                  Originally posted by JeffAdams View Post
                  High end mountain bikes that are at a similar price-point as the Icon don't come with a shock pump included from the manufacturer. If someone goes to a retailer/dealer and buys a bike, they can often successfully negotiate the inclusion of a shock pump from them.
                  This may not be the best comparison because a high end mountain bike is usually a discretionary purchase and may not need to be used right away. This is not necessarily the case with a wheelchair. I doubt the gift shop at the rehab hospital is going to carry a shock pumps. I imagine many dealers won't have them either (Did you provide one with your demos?)

                  Besides, when I see a "Shock Pressure" spec on the order form, I am assuming that the shock is preset at the factory and I can worry about finding the best pump for this particular application after I get my chair.

                  At least clarify this on the order form.

                  Otherwise, your going to have a percentage of end users using their chairs without properly adjusting the suspension. Of course, CareCure members know would not be among this group.

                  Originally posted by JeffAdams View Post
                  The other reason we're not including a shock pump is (as a few folks here have correctly commented) because any high-pressure pump with a schraeder valve will work on the shock - ideally, the pump should have a gauge to tell you how much pressure is going into the tire/pump, and we're assuming that most people who use a premium wheelchair already own a high pressure pump with a gauge.
                  I feel that this is the more reasonable response.

                  But you may want to use caution about making assumptions. I don't know how many times I've seen a demo brought in by a DME or manufacturer's rep that had nearly no air in the tires (even at ISS), and not a week goes by that I don't encounter an end user who's tires are significantly low on air who tell me they don't have a pump or compressor.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by grommet View Post
                    Thanks Jeff :-)

                    Sorry for the perhaps obvious question, but how do you install them? I'm looking at them and can't quite figure out how they stay on the frame tube and not slide off with the wing when I move it. What's the right way to put them on?
                    I think the pink one's would look cute on your chair!

                    "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

                    "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by DaleB View Post
                      I think the pink one's would look cute on your chair!

                      :-) I can't really pull off pink though I have to admit there is one tiny pink boat in my sailing club and it was my big 'ole friend John who sailed it so much I tried it and yep, you do get looks and smiles, from the girls.

                      More seriously I actually do everything I can to make my chair less noticeable. It's black everywhere I can make it. I do remember years ago though when Quickie came out with Toxic Waste Green as a color option and for a minute or two, I considered it. It was pretty cool.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        SCI_OTR - Hmmm. Saying "seriously, good luck with that" doesn't leave me with much to work with.....I honestly don't know if the dealers will be open to providing a complimentary shock pump, but if we don't try, we'll never know, right? I really do think that this falls squarely on the dealers as a service or complimentary gift to provide, and if Icon as a manufacturer doesn't take a stand and try to get the dealers to step up, then there's zero chance of it ever happening.

                        If someone is getting a wheelchair delivered at a rehab center, the delivery will be in the presence of a dealer and a seating clinician - as a manufacturer, we expect and insist (which is very different than assuming) that our dealers have ALL tools necessary to deliver the wheelchair and perform the final fitting (so the gift shops are officially off the hook for stocking shock pumps). We don't provide the dealers with wrenches or tire pumps, nor do we provide them with shock pumps - so, no, we didn't provide shock pumps with the demo chairs we delivered. We expect the dealers to buy all their own tools.

                        Taking the position that a manufacturer should be responsible for providing additional equipment to either a dealer or a consumer because a wheelchair isn't a "discretionary" purchase doesn't make sense to me - maybe I'm missing the point, but wheelchair manufacturers don't provide tire pumps either - provision of a shock pump seems like the same thing to me. You may be assuming incorrectly that an empty shock makes the chair un-useable. Engaging the lock-out on the shock makes it functional, even when completely empty, allowing the user to go to a bike shop or a dealer to get the shock filled. This is also the "safety" in case the shock is accidentally emptied or the air is taken out by a well-intentioned airline employee (I've had chairs brought to me at the door of an aircraft with completely empty tires for this reason).

                        As mentioned previously, the shock pressure will be set during the final fitting process when chairs are delivered through dealers (and like all the adjustable features, there will need to be some validation and possibly reconfiguration of the shock pressure until it's just right.

                        With chairs that are sold through on-line retailers, the "final fitting" is done by the customer - the discount that the customer gets is a benefit, but the trade-off is that they need to do some of the things that the dealer normally does, including final adjustments, for which they will require tools.

                        This chair was shipped directly to the customer, and because of a (perhaps misplaced) concern over potential damage in shipping, I took the air pressure out of the shock. On Monday, I'll check with both the shipping companies we use and the manufacturer of the shocks to see whether I can ship shocks loaded with air safely, but in my mind, this won't eliminate the need for people to assume some of the responsibilities of a dealer if they choose to purchase online - including owning a few tools, a pump for their tires, and maybe one for their shock.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          So, worked on getting the chair dialed in. rolling around today, It's incredible the difference in the ride with a suspension. Wow.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by jschism View Post
                            So, worked on getting the chair dialed in. rolling around today, It's incredible the difference in the ride with a suspension. Wow.
                            I can imagine. When I am running knobbies and the pressure is low, I love the "cush". Just don't like the rolling resistance.

                            Jeff, Is the aluminum on the chair anodized or powder coated?
                            Adaptive Sports Forums.com
                            http://adaptivesportsforums.com
                            Non-commercial adaptive sports user community

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              If I order an Icon.... hold the tire pump and the shock pump
                              Adaptive Sports Forums.com
                              http://adaptivesportsforums.com
                              Non-commercial adaptive sports user community

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                It's a "hard" anodized finish, which means that more time is spent in making sure that any contaminant is cleaned off the material prior to ano, and is what gives it the matte finish.

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